scoutldr

The problem I have is when I see council fundraising supporting 6 figure salaries. The units see very little of that. Sure, it goes to maintain council properties (camps), but none of it goes to the units to buy all the stuff they have to buy from the Scout Shop (badges, cards, books, etc). The units have to fund that somehow, otherwise our yearly unit dues would be $100 and up. If the council said, "if you support us, all of the program materials will be free", then I could maybe begin to see it. But there ain't no free lunch. And as gas heads towards $4 a gallon, a lot of families are having to make hard choices (let's see...FOS donation, or buy gas so i can go to work...Hmmmmm.) I'm afraid we are in for some lean years.

Let's hope that when the Advancement Report is filed with COuncil that ScoutNet will reject the MeritBadges for the Cub Scout. Too bad he will have to do them all over again. Requirements completed before you're registered as a Boy Scout don't count.

Withdrawn...Ed beat me to it...(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

I said we had them...didn't say the scouts actually use them...

I'm no expert, but you can plagiarize the HTML code by clicking on "View Source" in your browser. The website you looked at appears to have been abandoned, a common problem when leadership changes hands. I attended a session on unit websites at our last Univ of Scouting, and abandoned websites appears to be a common complaint. There's no way to get rid of them, unless the owner takes them offline. You might want to shoot an e-mail to the Texas council where this troop is located, and they can maybe put you in touch with the troop's current SM or CC.

We have two central showers, one at the pool house and one on the other side of camp. Both have hot water and are open 24 hrs. No showers in the sites.

I'll bet that not much actual sleeping would have happened anyway.

Assuming the price of gas follows simple supply and demand economics, even at $3+ per gallon, demand is not wavering. People are not conserving, which drives the price even higher...because they can. Eventually we will be paying what the Europeans pay...and glad for the privilege. I have noticed this week that the Citgo signs have disappeared from the 7-11 gas pumps. Maybe I can go back to buying my gas there now...

I replaced by 1999 Grand Cherokee with a 2005 Ford Explorer about a year and a half ago. V-6, 4x4 with third seat, primarily for my Scouting activities. It is nice to have about twice a year for the trips to Home Depot. It is my daily driver to work, and I'm averaging about 17 mpg according to the trip computer. Every time I fill it up, spending over $50-60 per week, I think hard about replacing it with a subcompact econobox...my son gets 36 mpg on his 2005 Focus. It's costing me almost $10 a day just to go to work and back. I'll just have to tell the parents to get their kid to camp however they can...I'll meet them there. We do have an 83 Suburban which was donated...we fold down all the seats and load that with troop gear to the tune of about 10 mpg (350 ci V8).

So, do we owe the same allegiance to the scout who declares himself gay or atheist? Or do we just summarily revoke his membership? That's where I have the problem. Inconsistent messages.

Ultimately the decision to approve his plan is up to the SM, Troop Committee and District Advancement Chair. The plan should include financing the project, either through fundraisers, donations in kind, or parental support. Soliciting cash donations is generally not allowed, because that cuts into the Council's FOS turf. Also, as was mentioned, the BSA does not permit its members to do fundraising for other organizations. Another question that might be asked...is this a project that was conceived and designed by the scout, or is he just supplying labor for another organization's project? Case in point...supplying labor for a Habitat house would count as service hours...but the scout did not conceive, design, plan and lead the project. For that reason, Red Cross blood drives are no longer approved as Eagle projects in my local council. PS: The Scout may want to contact some Airlines to see if donations of Frequent Flyer miles would be an option...I regulary donate mine because I don't accrue enough on any one airline to be able to use.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Happy Birthday, Mr. West. (May 16, 1876 - May 15, 1948). David, when will your book be out? I am looking forward to an autographed copy!

"So, are we considered chartered or not?" A "charter" is a certificate presented by the BSA to the CO. Has your CO been given one of those? Do all the members have membership cards with a Member number on them? Have their member applications been processed and the checks cashed? Do you have a printout of the membership roster from Scoutnet? Are the leaders getting Scouting magazine? These are all characteristics of a chartered unit. If the answer is "no", then your son's advancements may be in question as well. You need to have a chat with your Council's registrar, and request a current roster printout from Scoutnet. She/he will quickly let you know your status.

The Eagle Court of Honor is usually designed by the scout, his family and his troop. There are no hard and fast rules.

If I were the CO, and the unit backed out on a commitment like this, I would have to think twice about rechartering the unit. The youth need to understand that their behaviour is not only un-scoutlike, but it's rude, selfish and inconsiderate. It's not just a matter of funding their fun, the CO is depending on their help. There should be consequences.

Despite what Stosh says, I understand your concerns. Boys that age will mimic what they see. Is that the weapons-handling techniques you want them to emulate with their BB guns? Seeing the show would be entertaining for all...but I wouldn't do it at a Scout sponsored event. Just my opinion...

To answer the original question, I live "somewhere down south" and I have not heard of such an incident. If it had hit the news, I'm sure Fred would have posted the article.

Sometimes I wonder if we're practicing "truth in advertising"... What if we advertised a restaurant with the best steaks in town? Then when you're in the door, you find out that the steers are out back, the tools are in the kitchen, and you have to do everything yourself, including cleaning up when you're done? I think when scouts and parents sign up, they expect everything to be provided for them...when the secret is revealed that they have to boy-lead (including planning, execution and paying for it), and the parents realize that if there's going to be a program, THEY have to participate, a good many say, "forget this"...it's too hard. I had a parent once who thought that being Cubmaster was my full time job...and that since she had paid her $10 registration fee, I had an obligation to please her as a customer. Just a random thought...

Ditto what eagle90 said! Unfortunately, I don't see a way forward with this. The mom is intent on producing a neurotic, dysfunctional mama's boy/man, and we cannot stand in her way. The only one who can influence this is Dad, and it sounds like he's dysfunctional too...the term "whipped" comes to mind. At least it sounds like they're rich enough to afford the therapy that will be coming down the road. You might suggest that Perrier can be added to the patrol menu, but only if she pays for enough for everyone!

As this thread winds down, I guess I share some of the responsibility for igniting it. After all, I was at the EBOR. I am not in favor of a BSA-sponsored "witch-hunt". But I do feel that when the information is placed in front of you in a sealed envelope (Letter of Recommendation), we have a responsibility to factor it in to the decision. What do I think should have happened? 1. I think the SM and CC should have called a special troop committee meeting to let everyone know the scoop prior to the EBOR. Its' not fair to blindside the Eagle Board members, and then claim "we didn't think it was relevant to scouts". That's a copout...they tried to hide it and they got caught. 2. I think the District was wrong in overturning the original Board's decision. Such things should only occur if there was some procedural error or misinterpretation of the requirements. For requirements such as "morally straight" and "Scout Spirit", there are no stated requirements, so the Troop committee gets to decide. 3. The moment the young couple found out she was pregnant, they gave up their right to the benefits of being a "youth member". They have committed an adult act and now have the responsibilities of adult parents. Playing the childhood game of scouting advancement is no longer a benefit that you should have the luxury of, and you certainly should not expect to be treated like a role model for the younger scouts and the public (aka, "Eagle Scout"). For the record, the scout did not show any sign of remorse, regret, contrition or repentance. His attitude was "hey, stuff happens." In fact, he was proud of the fact that he was living the baby's mother with and "supporting my child" (as much as you can with a part-time minimum wage). He was an "avowed" fornicator, and proud of it. Is that any better than being an avowed homosexual or atheist? Some here seem to think so. He said they DID plan to wed...eventually. Don't know if they ever did. But we all know that such marriages are usually doomed to failure, and we all pay dearly for that lack of judgement.

In another thread, Beavah writes: "So let me take a step back. I think in the end, if we focus too much on specifics, we lose the goals. Dluders, in your mind, is this boy an Eagle Scout? That is to say, is he a boy that you'd be happy standing up in front of a room of other people - and especially other younger boys you're trying to mentor - and saying "This is what an Eagle is". Then joining in applauding the lad. ... But if he's not a boy you can genuinely hold up to the parents, CO, and especially to other boys as an example and "hero" of sorts, then yeh have an obligation not to, and to keep working with him. And if your program is promotin' and signin' off on such lads, then yeh should be about fixing that, too. Eagle isn't the spot to catch things. A Star Scout should also be a good example to younger boys." Thanks Beav! That about sums it up for me.

Thanks for all the excellent brainstorming! Keep it coming! I would like to see ALL BSA forms and publications available on-line in .pdf format. That way everyone has access to the latest version ALL the time. Failing that, local Scout Shops should be prohibited from selling off supplies of pubs and forms if a newer version is available.

I was dutifully converting all my light bulbs to compact fluourescents to reduce my "Carbon Footprint", until I read an article reminding me that they all contain elemental Mercury...a highly toxic liquid metal. Once all these CFLs start hitting the landfills, we're going to have another environmental problem on our hands unless they have a strict Hg reclamation program. Same thing is true when these Hybrid vehicles hit the 10 year mark and those batteries need replacing. Danged if we do and danged if we don't! Perhaps it's all part of God's plan to keep the Earth from overpopulating! Biblical (and geologic) history shows that every so often, He just cleans house and starts over! We're due for a housecleaning. PS: Speaking of Manhattan Project, I did my graduate internship at the Oak Ridge National Lab in Tennessee, back in the late 70's when it was devoted to energy research and making enriched uranium. The facilties are still there...time to crank it back up!(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

The first EBOR was troop level. The SM and CC knew about the situation, but chose not to share it with the other committee members who sat the board. The SM/CC stated "what's that got to do with Scouts?" I think they (the committee) were more angry at being blindsided (via a Letter of Recommendation) than anything. They felt that premarital sex and out of wedlock children were not behaviour reflective of the Scout Oath and Law, especially since they were representing the CO, a church. The thing I disagree with is that the District was able to overturn (annulment?) the subjective decision of a Troop committee, even though there was no problem with the process. Standard procedure when a Board denies a rank is for the Board to tell the Scout what he needs to do to "measure up" and try again. Unfortunately, in a case like this, you can't "undo" the deed and make it go away. Personally, I have been torn over this issue, and it has caused me to examine my own beliefs and whether I can still in good conscience serve as a member of the BSA, where some sins are forgiveable and some are not.

I was the one who sat the EBOR for the 18 year old father. As the District rep, that's exactly what I did...adjourned the board and called the DAC. We had just read the letters of recommendation and the scout had not yet been called in. The advice was to hold the board and let the chips fall. The Board denied the Eagle, and was overturned on appeal at the district level. (Another EBOR was held with all District people who did not know the scout.)