Scoutfish

Star Wars not realistic? Are you kidding me? 100 different species of humanoid, 300 different alien species , all in a shared space and they all completely understand each other without talking the same language? Space ships that travel at the speed of light, but one broken wire and the pilot is puzzled? An army of stormtropes fire thousands of shots with semi automatic laser blasters - as well as the rebels - and only 1 person gets hit per 800 shots...from 20 foot away! HOW DARE ANYBODY SAY STAR WARS IS UNREALISTIC!!!!!!

But let me add my personal opinion to the first question you have: I have seen people take a 20 minute online coarse and come away from it with a wealth of new insight and knowledge. It changed the way they thought about, and talked about and planned scout outings and get togethers. I have also seen people take classroom training, write all the "right" answers down, to only sneer about the class the next day and continue doing things wrong( the way they used to) because : " I know better and it's always worked before!" Kinda like a drivers license: Lots of people take the class, pass the written and driving exam, them come close to killing you and I every time they pull onto the road.

1) In our council, trained strips only go to things like leader specific or classroom training that specifically applies to your position or duties within your position. For example: BALOO training gets you a BALOO patch and a wallet card signed by the DE saying you took the class, but not a "Trained" patch. Sm, CM, DL or ADL specific will get you a "trained" wallet card to get your trained strip. YP, Fast Start, or any other training that happens to also be offered online will not get you a patch. That is - in My council. Now having said that, I went into our scout shop and bought my trained strip without having to show my DE signed "trained" cards ( which I had in my pocket). But I will also say this: Grab two people from every pack/troop in every district in my council, and ask them all the same question...You'll probably get 12 different answers! LOL! So I cannot say that it is indeed a council rule in my council, or people just savinga peny or two. Maybe just a miscommunication.

What is needed is a side course forn a different set of SSD or Sa checks and safety SOP's for when the scout may be alone. Now, it should be stressed that this does not figure in when at scout camp, or during or part of or under the banner of any scout activity while at, on, or represented by a council, district, troop, pack, crew, etc... Have an add on that takes place when a scout is on his own time - and most likely solo - unable to perform any necessary SSD or SA measures. You can't always have a buddy with you. You can't always have 2 lifeguards or responcible people watching you. You don't always plan ahead and carry a life jacket with you on a solo hike. Again, not while at or participating in any BSA function, but when away. Like CPR, as a former firefighter, EMS/ water rescue tech, we used SOP's that called for two man CPR. But If I just happen to be on my own time and run across somebody in distress who needs CRP, I have the knowledge of doing 1 man CPR which is set up, times and different counts from 2 man CPR.

Engineer, I agree with your theory. I cannot provide a link, or specs , nor can I name my source, but I read an article years ago( maybe 19 years) that discussed chainsaw safety. The two biggest groups of people who sustained injuries due to mishandling of chainsaws were beginners and EXPERTS! The begiiners were just too green and made stupid mistakes. Th Experts were sooooo confident that they knew everything, they had no doubt as to their bulletproofness. Meanwhile, the average experienced handler had just enough experience to know what to do, yet recognized the need to be extremely careful. Overconfidence can kill. Simple as that!

Li, nobody is insulting you! But there is a flaw in what connection you are trying to make: I'll make it real easy for you: NOt a single part of SSD or SA was being followed. Matter of fact, I'll bet it was the last thing any of the unfortunate people thought of. The question is do you understand that: A) It was NOT being followed.. and B) Why? Why> Because these young men were not at, participating in, nor were they associating with anything BSA at the time they had their misfortune. I used to do water rescue on a fire dept that I was Asst Chief of. We had an 13 foot AVON semid ridgid hull inflatable boat. Before that boat came off the trailer and before it ever touched the water, you had on your type III PFD and you water hazard helmet. You had a strobe marker on your vest and switched on even if in broad daylight at 12 noon. You handed the safety officer your action pin too!( Big ole safety pin with your name and ID number stamped in it). But tomorrow, if I decide to take my boat out, I can pretty much tell you that I: Will not be wearing a helmet, Will not have my type III vest on, will not be wearing nor have my strobe turned on, nor will I leave an action pin with anybody. Why? Because I am not taking part in, around or associating with an EMS type water deployment situation. Likewise, if you go to the beach while on your own personal time, while not activly participating in any BSA function, I cannopt imagine you following SSD and SA while there. Granted, these are procedutres that would benefit everybody, but outside of BSA, I do not imagine the get followed by single individuals.

I meant...an hour and a half total: Getting their uniforms on, going to the church and the service too. An entire 1 1/2 hours out of their day. Not bad at all!

Now here's another thought....and I do not mean - in any way- to say that this is the only reason why, but rather, one of MANY reasons. So there's a decline in members? Is it that the number of people are dropping out,or is it that not so many NEW scouts join up? Sure, there are always those who join up witn a pre set idea in their mind of what things will be, and then when the real world kicks in, they leave. Happens everywhere. But look at it a slight bit differently for a minute. Matter of fact, think like movies. Or rather, the mistake that the "popularity guru's" make! How many times do you hear about how great a movie must be because of the number of people who went to see it? The thing is though...that's just wrong logic! Why? Because nobody knows if the movie is any good until AFTER the PAID the ticket. So in reality, the only thing ticket sales actually shows is how gtreat the PUBLICITY the movie got! Okay, back to scouting. If the number of NEW members is the reason for decline...meaning that the number of new people joining up is dropping..well,it can't be due to the change in this program or that program. Why? Because these NEW people have no freaking idea of the difference, the change or whatnot. They ARE NOT lamenting how it used to be better because they are BRAND NEW! They do not have a clue about "the good old days " of scouting. So where does that leave us? With the previews. The advertising and the publicity. Just like the movies. But as pointed out before, the amount of competition is staggering now days as compared to 10, 20, 30, even 40 years ago. No 250 channel cable boxes or satelite tv's. No X-boxes or Wii's. No laptops or even the kids own computers in their rooms. I see my two tenage nieces text who knows who for hours during family get togethers during the holidays. Matter of fact, they will text each other from across the room instead of verbally talking to each other. Now add in all the new clubs, arcades, and hangouts that we couldn't even dream of years ago. Tough competition for sure! I love scouting to death, but to todays modern youth... sleeping in a tent and building fires just does not stand a chance next to instant messaging and having the world at your fingertips! Again, I will not even imply that this is the whole or only reason, but I'd place it before changes in the program.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

jamist, That's actually a great idea! What would be the total time spent? Maybe an hour to an hour and a half? Still have all wekend and the rest of the day Sunday to do whatever.

Same as Pack212Scouter's crowd...we too will be with family and friends doing just whatever. So what does that have to do with celebrating freedom? By using our freedom to do something we want to do without being forced to do otherwise. Now as for honoring and recognizing those who gave us that freedom.....each person and scout does his own thing, but we make an effort as a pack to show that horor during Veterans Day, Memorial Day and attending honor flight "welcome home" ceremonies.

ABSOLUTELY! If that'show the contrace for leasing the land is written. I can lease my land to a farmer. I can tell him that he can build a barn, hook power to it and dig a wellto supply water to it. But I can also say that once the lease has expired, all building on the property revert to me for ownership. If the farmer signs it...then that is how it will be. If he refuses, either I could relent on that point or refuse to lease the land to him and wait until another person - who agrees to my terms - decides to lease the land. In the end, it's whatever both parties agree to and sign to on the contract.

Think of it like this: This years ADL's might end up being next years DL's if : Roundup brings in enough boys to create more dens If a current DL has to suddenly move, quit or cannot continue the position. An ADL this year can jump into the DL position for next years Tigers den so that : The den has immediate experienced leadership and transitions the new Tiger DL's into place. If nothing else, having more than the DL and ADL will make sure you always have a fresh perspective on things.

Welcome, welcome,welcome! This IS a great site. Although informative...the official scout books and guides are ....well... DRY! They are full of "shoulds" "oughts" and "supposed" to be's! This site however...is the real deal, in the real world no holds barred reality of scouting. Congrats on ACM. I just became CM myself!

afscout, Already had a ADL? He can have more than one. Our Bear den had 5 ADL's. Officialy ( on pack master stuff) only one listed as an ADL, for that particular den, but we had 9 ADL's who were listed ( by the program) as "un-assigned". Same thing here though about advice and learning. I'll be needing plenty!

Well, I am not gonna push for or against a full year schedule. The pack/troop/crew should do what they want and what workd for them. AS my pack's new CM, I am not gonna push one way or the other. Right now, we break for summer, but have at least 1 fun day each month and do enough to earm the summer award. We have earned a quality unit award the last 3 years straight too. Something is working right. We have cubs who go to day camp, weekend camp programs and resident camp. SOme do the parent son weekend thing. My son plans ( for now anyways) to go to Webelos camp. He also wants to spend days at the beach with his cousins, friends who are not scouts, visit some family, hang out with granddad at the garden, etc.... Personally for me...I miss it already! WE meet every Monday during the active season. Pack meeteings, den meetings, leader meetings, and then theres roundtables on 1st Tuesday. Hurry up and get done with work, eat at Andy's ( 50's style fast food gril) if we have time and haul butt to the meetings. Barely time to wash off and change into clean clothes, and I also get home late. But I miss it. Must mean I genuinely enjoy doing it. Tommorrow is our 1st sumer fun day. Going fishing at a sound side park, gonna cook hot dogs and sauch. I can't hardly wait either. Then an entire month before we meet ( officailly) again. So, depending on your pack/troop/crew a full year schedule may not be a burden, but something you really enjoy! Again,it's what it is...TO YOU!

I get what you're saying LIBob! No, I do not want to hear the gay guy at the office talk about all his weekend conquests at the gay bar. BUT I do not want to here about the office studmuffin brag about how many women he conquested this weekend either. I'd tell both of them to shut up! Unless I misunderstand you...that is what you are saying about scouting too: Don't brag about your gay adventures...don't brag about you hetero adventures ..and don't brag about any solo adventures! Talk about sports, weather, MB's, scout stuff, tv shows, the latest video games, newest sports car or whatever...just leave the sex ( straight or gay) talk at home!

KJ, You are correct..based on a technicallity. But then you have the spirit of YP and what it is meant to stop. "By the end of the first day the boys in CM's Den were feeling perfectly free to urinate all over the campground, despite the latrine sitting there 10 yards away. "Seriously, you guys, there's a latrine RIGHT THERE, you can't use it?" I asked one boy who was busy watering a tree on the way to breakfast. CM looks over his shoulder and grins, and keeps hiking. The boy takes his as his cue, grins at me happily and runs off the join the rest of his Den." So, without specifically saying it, the Cm told the boys that it was okay to pee anywhere. So, how many boys actually pay attention to make sure nobody happens to come upon them amd see them? The CM basically said that the boys do not have to create any kind of privacy when pulling ouit their privates. The CM, by his actions has created an environment that could in fact increase the likely hood of visual exposure. THIS IS A VIOLATION OF YP Instead of doing stuff to stengthen YP, the CM is actually encouraging behavior that goes against YP!

Well sure, unless you hold a commitee position, no necker for that. And you have a patch on your sleeve too. But why not a "matching" hat? Not asking if somebody knows a specific existing reason , but more of a "Hey, why not make this?" question.

So if you are a Tiger Den Leader a Webelos Den Leader, Cubmaster or Scoutmaster, or any committee member, they make a patch for your shirt sleeve saying that you are ...whatever it is that you are. So how about an Offical BSA Ball Cap that adult Leaders could wear with that same patch on it? If you are a SM, CM or Dl......why not a khaki or green hat with your specific position patch on it... and be considered part of unifrom? Or it could be blue and yellow for cubs or whatever colors venturers( red?) or sea scouts ( white?) use?

Ken, WOW! That's great insight and true. But I am older-ish so I am gonna throw rocks at you and yell : "GIT!"

Incidentally, I am a person who is used to routine. All week long,I am ready for the weekend, but come Monday morning, work is a welcome return to routine. No, I'm not O.C.D. , Friday is great, Saturday is awesome , Sunday..contentment slips in, but come Monday..it's like coming home from vacation: Vacation is great, but nothing beats coming back home! I go to bed around the same time each night wether i have to or need to or not. I wake up around the same time each day...even on weekends. ....wether I want to or not! So .....to me , at least...holding the meetings the same time all year long is actually easier and more ...well..my routine.

I just became the new CM of my pack. As it is right now, I have been with my pack for 2 full seasons and this summer ( this summer so far). Now let me give a little background: When my son first joined this pack as a Wolf, the number of adults who actually did stuff was limited. The people who actually made an effort to be leaders ..just happened to be the people who made the effort to be the committees and volunteers. It's not that they wanted to do it this way- they had no choice as no others gave a damn enough to do stuff. Our former CM happened to be the CC as well as the treasurer too. She also happened to be the only experienced leadership that didn't cross over with their sons ...so for a few years, the only person with meaningful expetrienc. So anyways, our pack takes the summer off. I nevere really got an "official " answer as to why, but I suspect it had something to do with that. The few who did anything were burned out by summer time and ready to just do summer stuff or family stuff after spending the rest of the year having to do other families stuff too. They just needed a break! You know, the whole "20% doing for the other 80%!" thing. But this last year, we managed to have a bunch of great people step up and make our committee a "real" committee. Instead of a few dens with just DL's....we had all dens with from 2 to 5 ADL's each. Then we had parents who didn't become ADL's or committee, but you could count on them like clockwork to be there. So it's summer again.From what I have heard about the past, our pack had one or two summer fun days that might have included a kiddie pool, a slip and slide, and running through a water sprinkler at the CO, and another day where they played football or something in the nice toasty overbearing humid sun- then had cookies and milk. Better than nothing I suppose? So here it is, this summer and I set up 3 different fun days: 1) Fishing at a local sound side park. Gonna be late afternoon into evening. We are going to cook hot dogs, have ice cream and have ribbons and prizes for everything. 2) Going to a National park and watch people in full costume fire cannons and black powder guns. This was set up and arranged just for us. Can earn a BSA/ Council patch by participating in a scavenger hunt. 3) Going to spend a day at the Battleship USS Norh Carolina BB-55. This is also during the USS NC's "Blue and Grey Navy Days" celebrating the history of the ironclad CSS NC and sailing ship NC. Okay, okay...long ( long) story short..... I have had a few DL's and parents start talking about possibly holding their den activities and meetings all year long. So...is it me? Did I create a spark in the program? That would be cool if it was true, but that's not it. NOPE! Just that "That's how it always was" and the fact that nobody really planned much in the summer. So here's what I'm thinking: Maybe packs and troops that take off for the summer are: 1) Not creative enough to carry year round. 2) Burned out by the time summer rolls around and just need a break ( which isn't out of reason, mind you) Not enough people to evenly carry the year long load. or 3) Maybe that's just the way they always did it. Tradition ( sort of) There may be plenty who want to go all year long, but everybody thinks everybody else doesn't want to. WOW! Sorry, I had no idea I would ramble on tnat long!

Moose, I wouldn't sweat it! When I was younger,I too was always more comfortable with adults. I could talk to an adult easier than somebody my age.People said I was an old soul ina young body. WEll, some 30 years later, I will jump up and get into the middle of a group of kids and act just as every bit their age as they do. While the other parents and adults have to be coaxed and encouraged to ( at least for a few minutes) to drop their mature and nobile attitudes long enough to sing Bazooka Bublegum...I will jump in laughing and clapping and singing at the top of my lungs. I guess I find it easier to be a kid and meet a kid at the kid's levelthan most adults. Maybe that's why they asked me to be the cubmaster this year. Maybe that's why we all do it: We aren't to old to be too young! So, anyways, your son might be "too old" right now, but I'll bet that later on, all his friends will be too old and too serious to be a CM, SM , or any other leadership type when the time comes! WEll, his freinds might be able to take the position, but your son will be the one to truely connect.

Yeah, Basements comment wasn't a bad one. No harm/ no foul. From what I have read on this site and within these forums...most WoodBadgers seem to be older. Matter of fact, the interpreteation I got, and the one I went along with , was that it was just clarifying that he was at least 18 and not younger. Granted, people can have sons who are almost 50 years old and probably much, much older, but come on.....the very first impresssion you get on this site when hearing somebody say "my son" is that he's an active scout who is between 7 and 16 years old. Know what I mean? Yeah, scouts can be 6,and they can be 18, but most commonly they are in between. Anyways, I don't think anybody was calling that being 18 was an issue...just clarifying he was "AT LEAST" 18.

Abel. It might have been total coincidence, but I had that same issue with my desktop computer. It's Windows XP / internet explorer 8 I tryied it with my wifes laptop and it went through stright from mid way ..where apparentlyit was hanging up. Laptophas Windows 7 /IE-8 Maybe a video card capability thing or possibly... ALOT of people are taking SSD in a short time and clogging up the server . It is summer afterall!