Scoutfish

That's AWESOME! I bet most SM's wonder if they can handle it long enough to see their own kids through....much less longer!

Sitting here and thinking about it, I noticed a difference between when I was a kid as compared to the thinking nowadays with our kids. Specifically, things like taking gameboys, DS's, laptops, i-Pods and such to camps. Personally, I do not think technology is the problem here. I love technology! This post is evidence of the fact that I have set aside a certain amount of rom in my house for a desk, chair, computer, filing cabnet and printer ...so I can takllkto all you very fine fellas. I can glance to my right and watch The NASCAR race on my tv through my digital cable box, and look to my right to see my wife on her laptop which connects by wireless signal to a box that connects to the outside world also. My son is behind me on the couch, reading a book. Might be a nickelodien magazine or could be the WWII books he loves soooo much. So anyways, technology isn't exactly banned at my house. But neither is boredom. That's right! Bordeom happens at my house. Sometimes it leads to housework, landscaping, woodbuilding ideas or drawing, reading, or who knows what. So here's something I have told both my son and wife many,many times: Ther's nothing wrong with being bored sometimes. You do not have to have an activity, or be busy every second of every day. It is not my job to entertain you 24/7 It's okay to just sit, look around, and notice the world. Matter of fact, if you put your games and toys away every now and then..You might see and notice more of the world around you. Of course...I don't have to tell you guys that , now do I? You knew it and some of you lived it before I was born! So, In my small opinion , that is the real issue or proble. Scouts want to bring gameboys, i-Pods, laptops and whetever other electrinic things they play with every day so that they will not find themselves accidentally unoccupied for a few seconds. They do not understand how to just sit back, unwind and chill out. So, maybe as mentors and leaders, we need to tesach all the scouting stuff, but also teach them to sit back and enjoy simplethings like just staring into the fire's embers, the starry skies above us or listening to the crickets and plain old silence of the woods. Mattter of fact, I'd like to point out something my son experienced: Last fall at our campout, after we laid down for the night, he asked me what that strange faint sound was. I Listened for a few minutes and told him it was the sound of leaves falling and hitting the ground. He was completely amazed! A few days later, after we got home, he said : "There should be a CD of the sound of falling leaves , that people could listen to when they go to bed! So after I finished laughing, I though: 'Yeah..that would be cool!" So anyways: It's not that electronics and technology are the problem or ruining camping, it's that we ( or our kids)are scared to be withouit! They are sooo used to everything being scheduled and having something to always keep them occupied and entertained 24/7! Me? Boredom can be twice as entertaining!

Now, as a youth, I was never a scout nor did I go to scout camps. But i did go camping with my dad: A US Coiast Guardsman who was an avid fisherman. My mom was from the outerbanks NC. So we went to the outerbanks ALOT as a family. This was back before there were condos everywhere. We slept in tents. Campfires at night, no radio, tv or anything electric during the whole week except a battery operated flashlight. The stoves, lanterns and all were Coleman kerosene. I had a freaking blast! One year, my dad finally broke down and rented a pop-up camper through MWR ( or the coastie version of it) . Not as fun! So, as I said, technology is what you make it, but at our pack campouts, even our tigers get more from sitting around the campfire than watching dvds or movies. A few boys brought their DS 's or gameboys, but they never really used them until they were in bed.

Let me rephrase what I said: There are several different, and unrelated things happening at once: Dad has no more buisness that you had ..or...You have as much buisness as dad has to interfear which is none! The son needs to tell dad that when it comes to stuff like WB ticket items, your son's training or like ..that he needs to be a dad or a scouter, but not both. Dad cannot add, change, or lesson anything "just because it's his son" ( all parents are guilty of this sometimes without realizing it). Your son needs to tell dad he's crossed the parent line. That is not s scouting thing..but a parent/child thing. Inventory: Okay, so maybe it was just about who owned what, but a job done righ is still a job done right. WEther he cleaned it, tossed it or whatever... to do the job right and thoroughly..the trailer as wellas any other locatoon of storage should be included in the inventory. Sure, he might very well list what belongs to who....but is trhe list complete if some of the associated item were in the trailer or maybe the SM's house, att another scouters house or perhaps even a closet somewhere in the CO? At any rate, slap your husband up side the head, and make him eat cold Bologna sandwiches for a few days!

Yeah... I was wondering about that too: If he's taking WoodBadge, then he must be an adult. So back to the question: NOPE! Dad has no more input than I do about what is part of or not part of the ticket item. But also, that means neither do you or anybody other than the people who approve ticket items. I think that if you want to do inventoty, it should include the shed, the trailer, and anything eklse that may be at this scout's house, that scout leader's house or on loaner if that be the case. Overall, it's just another day in thje life of being a human. Sometimes things go easy and fast. Sometimes we have stuff dumped on us. Sometimes we think we are done and then have to do somebody elses work too. Life is not always fair, but still goes on. Your husband dumping stuff in the shed was not cool, but that is something that your son must deal with and come to terms with. It's not s scouting thing either. It's a father/ son thing! He needs to be the one to tell dad that it's time for dad to step back and let Jr do his own thing.

Thanks for the replies! Okay, stupid me: The patch is on his right pocket. I...uhh...ahem...cough cough...was looking at his shirt and the right pocket was on MY left side as I was facing it! So, the patch IS on the right pocket. just me not thinking !

Okay, this is probably a dumb question, and I know I should know better.....BUT....... Okay, it's actually a two part question AND concerns two different patches. 1)At the end of our season, my (then) bear son earned his Cub Scout Outdor Activity Award patch and LNT/ Outdoor Ethics patch. He did this at our pack family campout/ crossover campout....so he technically earned it as a bear, but then went home as a Webelos scout. So can this patch(s) go on the Webelos uniform or is it a "Ooops! Supposed to go on bear uniform." 2) Secondly, Right now, the outdoor activity award patch is tacked on (with thread) to his left pocket flap and the LNT/OE is hanging from the left pocket button with one of those $.99 clear patch holder things. Okay, it really comes down to this: My son and the rest oh his den worked pretty hard to earn these two patches and I'd hate to think he couldn't display them because of rank at which they were earned and because of the change of uniforms. I bought his (khaki) Webelos Uniforn shirt about 3 weeks ago, and we just finished the council. pack, etc...patches yesterday. He is sooo proud of those patches...but also wants them to be right also. No, he won't be a UP, but he likes stuff right too. Anyways, answers are appreciated, correct answers even more so!

Modernization of scouting isn't the problem! Look at what you are doing right now" Sitting at a computer waiting to see what other scouters think about this issue. Something that would have required you to write letters ( by hand) and mail them out, and then wait weeks for the replies. Instead, you can get answers right away and axctually carry on an intelligent conversation in a TIMELY manner. Look at the access, ease, and availability to get scout info, new rules, regulations, file permits, explore, make and confirm plans for outings and camping. As listed before, lighter and better materials, quick dry/ mold resistant materials for tents, clothes, sleeping bags. Fire plugs, waterproof fire starters, lightweight canvas and goretex. Graphite poles and all the rest of the great stuff. NOPE! Modernization isn't the problem at all! PEOPLE and society are the problem! I tech my son to say "Yes sir" and "No ma'am"/ Thanks you and please. You'd think we were talking an alien language sometimes. Things like courtesy and manners are long gone and replaced by "It's all about me and what I want!" Nobody cares about other people or bother to ever try to see anything from the other person's point of view. Everybody wants instant gratification and with no effort involved. So, at least the way I see it, updating and modernizing scouting to utilize what are no doubt, better equipment is not an issue. But cghanging the way we go camping, what you do while camping , and how many butlers you use to carry your equipments, earn your badges for you, etc.....THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG! Incidentally, the video game belt loop is what you make it. After I read the requirements for it, I discoverd that he actually will make a stronger effort to spend less time on his playstation and more time doing other activities because...(this is the best part) ..the requirements in the (A&S) book say so! Apparently, there is no arguing with BSA! LOL!

Eagle92, Granted, I know this is entirely dependant on the individual....but I was told in EMT class that "If your average Dr shows up at a wreck and wants to assist...decline the offer." Why? Because most ( not all, mind you) Drs are used to seeing patients that have already been stabilized or somewhat in presentable conditions. Likewise, most paramedics and EMt are better able to handle the "raw" conditions of a wreck as they are usd to it. So sure, I get that it's not a "100% rule" But kinda see it. Oh...yeah, I see the whole CPR thing too.

Understand, I was only talking about First Aid, not all the other stuff. In those cases, I do not have an issue with progressive learning or advancement. Kinda like ( in my state of NC at least) you have to have a regular license for at least two years before you can get a CDL. Got to learn to drive a regular vehicle before you drive the 26,000 lb cab and 30,000 trailer. Incidentally, in NC, where I took and passes the Emegency Medical Technition class..it was taught by nurses and Drs that were furnished by the Dept of Environment and Natural Resources;Depertment of Health and Human Resources; Medical Health Board. EXCEPT....CPR, which was always taught by instructors from the Red Cross

While I have no experience with BOY scouts, I am an experienced firefighter/ EMS/ Water Rescue person. On the subject of First Aid...It should be a priority! Let me explain something from when I was taking Emergenncy Medical Technition classes - and during CPR specifically. Our instructor was explaining that many people will not take CPR classes because they are scared they may do something wrong while trying tp perform CPR. The instructor told us it's like this: The person is gonna die. PERIOD! But if you try to help them, they WILL NOT DIE MORE DEAD THAN IF YOU DON'T HELP! ( caps for emphasis) At best, CPR is only 21 percent effective if administerd in time to a person who is actually gonna benefit from it. And you will break ribs while doing it correctly. You have a great chance of puncturing a lung while doing it correctly. Now, even if you get a bit scared, freak out or are nervouse, ant CPR is better than just staring at them and doing nothingh! So..First Aid? Supposing that a young scout might find himself in a position of needing to help out ( this includes being away from the troop or troop activities) any help can be better than none - even if it just stabilizes a person...or at the very least, calms them( the patient) down. Now, as they approach higher ranks, maybe they will be more proficient at First Aid or perhaps better skilled. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But First aid should never be excluded to any scout!

First and foremost: Your son doesn't want to share a tent with you? LOL! YOU LUCKY DOG!!!!!!! Second: NO. The scouts do not have to buddy up together in tents. YP tells you what has to be done. That's it. The reason that I see most kids pairing up ( or more) is if they are scared of them big mean crickets at night, or well, it' just fun. Another reason is to spread the load: This kid carries the 10 man tent, this one carries the cooking stuff, this one carries whatever else..and so on. The easiest way to look at it is this: If a scout wants to go camping, and mom or dad cannot attend, but find another adult to be responcible ( as is allowed per G2SS) then that scout would end up sleeping alone if all his scouting buddies decide to tent up with their own parents. So..Is it your son? Or another scout? Man.....the luck always goes to somebody else!

The problem is thst the pocket is centered with the epaulettes on your shoulder, which are NOT centered with the shoulder seam. Now as for drawings.....Well, that's just it - somebody drew them. They might be just as accurate as specs that list the wrong colors, wrong positions or better yet: As accurate as the photograph of the Tiger Cub who somehow has earned his Bobcat, Tiger, Wolf, and Bear badges! The drawing may be more of a references, but the actual specs of CSP patch under and touching shoulder seam..all others centered based on CSP and rank centered on pocket are as are and not based on the drawing. But truth be told, go to my council and compare this pack to that and you see one fella witha 1 " gap between shoulder seam and CSP and then a 1" gap between each consequetive patch after that. I even saw den numbers and the Stars and Stripes on the wrong arm. point being, if your patch ends up a 1/4 " off center, I wouldn't sweat it to badly.

EXACTLY! They may have given your house the best paint job ever. They might have used no less than 4 contrasting paint colors for the trim. They might have even painted your driveway to look like coblestone........But they didn't do what they promised..therefore, I wouldn't pay either! And the good news is..You know what condition your son has. That's over half the battle.

Well....so far......fee-less training. Haven't sent my son to any camps yet, but looking at Webelos resident this Aug. I support and donate to our council. Biggest thing was - What would you do against such a policy: " At my council, it is plainly stated that money cannot be returned, but can be transfered to another class or event." - if you did not get what was promised to you?

"Now, when a parent pays for summer camp, he or she is under the assumption that that fee covers everything" Ihave no doubt there are many who think that way, but that wasn't what I meant in my example of: " But what if you pay for a program that is presented half-a**ed or hardly any effort is put into it? Maybe they bait and switch?" I'm talking about things like being told you get "3 mile hile around scenic lake" and in reality, it's 9 laps around a retention pond, or something along the lines of the previous example of Eagle trail that in reality ended up being skeeter bite trail. I have no issue of paying "X: dollars for camp, and paying for extras such as shirts, patches and what not. I have no problem paying for coarse materials and supplies either. And if my den/pack/ troop elects to take an additional off camp- BSA santioned event...I'll pay for that too. But if I pay for my son to take High Adventure climbing (or whatever it's technically called) It better be climbing high, and not a set of aroebic stair master steps!

fotoscout, Having went and read the EXACT wording of the uniform inspection and placement..It does not say centered under shoulder seam,but rather: "Council shoulder patch is directly below the shoulder seam." Every patch after that is centered based on the council patch except the rank patch which is centered on the pocket.

CORINO I LOVE IT! LOL!

Well, technically, I'd go with the shoulder seam. But the epaulettes ( shoulder loop holders) are set with the back side of the epaulettes even with the shoulder seam. The pocket is centered with that. So, technically, center with the shoulder seam, Cosmetically, center with the pocket or epaulette.

We do a joint meeting when we have meetings: Our Leaders and our committes met together and discus everything that is related. For example: As leaders we might discuss awards and advancement, but the committee will talk about costs per awards, beltlops and such. Together we might decide that the pack only pays for the firdst two beltloops / pins a month and the parents coer the rest Vs the pack pays for all but we collect $2.00 den dues each week. At rank graduation at our pack campout, we give all ATTENDING cubs the necker and book for the next rank. As leaders we may present ideas, the committes present the budgets and together we work it out. It might not be exactly what you were talking about, but aside from trainings, we also talk about den breakdown, things that we all want to see at pack meetings, campouts, fun days, ceremonies and such. There are discussions over den dues, den accounts, pack accounts, who can spend how much before getting approval and what kind of documentation is needed. Now , for the most part, each den does it's own thing ( respectively) within it's own rank, but at times, we do a pack wide meeting of the minds and have all cubs do the same activity ( PWD display boxes, B&G presentations, etc). Pretty much anything you do as a pack, ought to be discussed among theleadership and with the committee. If nothing else, it just keeps everybody on the same page and brings up any potential conflicts at a meeting instead of in front of the boys at a den or pack meeting.

So this brings up a great question: What do you do if you do not get what you pay for? At my council, it is plainly stated that money cannot be returned, but can be transfered to another class or event. I'm guessing this is the most practical way of dealing with rain dates and reschedules due to lack of participation. That, and I can understand the mathmatical nightmare of constantly refunding this amount or that amount due to schedule conflicts, people changing their minds, etc... But what if you pay for a program that is presented half-a**ed or hardly any effort is put into it? Maybe they bait and switch? Okay, being my son is a Webelos in our council and district, being I am a brand new Cubmaster in our council and district and that I want both of us to stay in and continue within the program - as well as my son cross into Boy Scouts.......I just can't realistically see threatening to sue to get our money back if it's not returned or transfered to a program that is run right or an equally ideal program at a later date. So what would you do? How would you get your money back?(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

So, what is the difference between a Council sanctioned event or a Council run event. No, I do not mean the obvious, but rather on a deeper level. Okay, we all know the G2SS ruling on BB guns and Archery as far as a pack or den is concerned...or is there a loophole? Okay, let me set this up for you. A few months ago( well ...Feb.) I got a flyer from my council advertising an Certified Archery Instructor class. Certified Instructor, mind you, not just a class where you got credit for just attending. So I thought ; " Hey! I bet I could teach a bunch of our boys with that!" But then I remembered G2SS and what it says about BB guns and Archery at the pack or den level. So I even sent an e-mail to our DE and asked if this was a different case since it was a certified instructor class and not just a "how to" class, would I be able to have archery at our pack campouts? WEll, the reply e-mail was a a forwarded response e-mail from the instructor of the class. I wish I had saved it so I could paste it here. Anyways, it came down to this: Since I would be a "certified " BSA Archery instructor ( assuming I passed the class) AND since we are supposed to file Tour permits for camping even at the pack level AND since we would be covered by insurance AND if I followed my training and put all safety measures in place then YES, this would be okay. So anyways, here's my whole question to those who have much greater time and experience in BSA and specifically Cub Scouts: Was this just a "hear what I want" reply to get me to take the class ( $$$), or was this a misunderstanding in either my question or the instructors answer, or is the whole trick to being sanctioned exactly what the guy said ( certified, tour permit, all safety measures in place)? As it turns out, unexpected issues came up at my job and I couldn't make the class. Incidentally, one of our DL's recognized the name of the instructor as the guy who wrote/modified the most the current policy on Archery for BSA. As much as I hate to say it, I cannot remember the guys name. So does it come down to council "SANCTIONED" simply meaning you have a permit, have certified instructors and all safety measures in place? Or would this be a "varies depending upon council" type of thing? See, I'm thinking for the future. If this class comes again, and the answers I get are legit...I'm taking it!

Yeah, that's the thing isn't it? Selling popcorn or fundraising is ultimately to benifit us by benefiting the scouts. If we sell sell sell and never see anything from it by way of support, camps or programs....then it's an effort wasted. Of course, if you have a top notch camp, ecellent programs and thescouts cannot wait to go back or at least sign up..and your SE and De are always there for you...there is nothing to lose! I think of the whole FOS and popcorn sales as a voluntary tax. My biggest gripe in the timing of my councils sales dates: Immediatly after students return to school - which means right after mom and dad just spent tons on $$$$$ on clothes,uniforms, fees, pictures, and school supplies as school just started. Add in that most Cub Scout roundups want some sort of prorated fee for membership and Boy's Life subscription...the pack you just jopined needs member ship dues or fees as well as asking for recharter fees...,.....well, you run out of $$$$$$ It's worse if your counic website stil shows only camping or weekend oppertunities from last year or the site only updates 2 times a year. Point being..I don't mind paying for something as long as I actually get something. But I have no issue not selling anything If I know I won't get anything either! But let me clarify: When I say "If I know I won't get anything" I my son or the scouts in the program .

I should have been more clear: When I said "..... people who are the spouses of registered leaders..who are not actually registered themselves who somehow think they have pull in the pack." I was actually refering to a few spouses ( both male and female who are not part of the program, who do not assist or help out at any function, but on the occasional times they do show up ( maybe pack campouts, Christmas party) they will tell actual registered leaders as well as den leaders what to do - and expect it to be followed without question. Again, both male and females do this. I laugh at them and do not even miss a beat with what I am doing, but this does cause alot of friction with those who do not know better. Do not think I meant ALL spouses as those "other spouses" do support and impliment and do more for the program more than most know!

WOW! I know it might look like everybody jumped on you, but that's not how it is. I'm gonna give you an example of something that eats away at a CM's and CC's enthusiasm: We hold two BBQ chicken dinner fundraisers each year. The Committee member "in charge" of the dinner wants to change things each year. Brings the same ting up at every meeting: "Bolied potatoes are just too hot to eat- lets have potato salad instead!" Problem being..Why are boiled potatoes too hot when you are also eating HOT chicken just off the GRILL? And Hot green beans and hot bread and your chicken has HOT sauce on it? Now mind you..this "in charge" doesn't plan on making the potatoe salad. Matter of fact, this "in charge" person olny shows up hours after both locations have already set up, been cooking for hours and serving too. Then the "in charge person" wil point out everything that is being done wrong ...all the while not actually doing ANYTHING themselves. Then tells people something along the lines of : "WEll, our CM and CC didn't want to do "X" so that's why this is the way it is!" WE vote as a committee and leadership about what happens at our dinners. As wella s menue, prices and we agree amongst ourselves about who works what location. We all pitch in and all get dirty. Al except the "in charge" committee person. She did not lift a finger, did not exert anl physical labor at all, did not procure or gather any food, materials or supplies. But she is also in a few social circles where all those fine upstanding folks will "Oh you poor thing!" her to death. SO...the CC and CM who have been busting their but like the rest of us and had to do the stuff that "in charge" was *SUPPOSED* to do...tend to get burnt out. s isn't even counting the ocasional mom or dad who never shows up for anything...but suddenly and urgently cannot understand why they have to take their kid to location A instead of location B which would be soooo much less traumatizing to Jr! Anyways, my point is this: A CM and CC can only do what they can with everybody elses help or support.