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Everything posted by Scoutfish

  1. So....What's the difference between a totin chip and a Whittling chip besides the spelling? I'm working with my Bear Cub son on getting his whittling chip card. I have heard of totin chip but not sure if it's the same as when a few co workers and I talk about tools > I say: "My Screwgun" , another coworker might say "Cordless drill" , another might just say "Drill" , while the 4th will say :"Cordless". In the end, we are all talking about the exact same tool ( we all use DeWalt 18v cordless impact guns --- see, they are not even drills! LOL!) So is there a difference between totin chip and whittling chip or no difference at all? Is it an age/rank thing? Am I even spelling "totin" right? Inquiring minds (mine) want to know!
  2. So I have been playing with my DO quite a bit lately. And somehow, I am going to do a short bit/ demo on DO cooking at our next pack campout. But you know what..... I don't have anything to lift the lid. So far I have ben using the tip of a shovel, a thicker stick or even the handle of s spatula. I have decided that I can'y put it off any longer: I am going to have to buy a lifting d4evice for my lid. Now, I'm thinking I want to buy the lifter handle with the hook and two side sytabilizers over the hot pot tongs, I mean, I could eaily just use a pair of vice grips as the tongs. But I think I might have better lid control with the lid lifter..meaning I have better control over it not flipping and "peppering " my food. So what has your experiences taught you? Which do you prefer? Do you use something else entirely?
  3. *** THis is more for parents than leaders *** So, the other thread was discussing med forms. Yeah, our troop has the same issue. I doubt anybody would be surprised at how many "Part C's" are turned in - in the 10 minutes before we leave camp. Brand new parents excluded, I have to ask: " Didn't you know camp was coming up again this year?" I mean, it's not like scouts just learn about camp the day before they go. You do remember last year's camp, right? So, don't most of us start thinking about and planning for summer camp in ..oh, I don't know....January or February? Now, parents that are new to a troop..sure , I get that, In cub scouts, it's rare you have to fill out part C . Parents are not used to it or in the habit of it. BE PREPARED
  4. Okay, I am more venting than anything else, but sometimes, it irks me to no end when people think only within their own bubble or lifestyle and not around the lifestyle and thinking of those who threaten us. Basically, It really gets me ill to see people outraged over childern, infants, elderly ande such being scanned, checked or patted down at airports. I just caught a glimps of the oversight hearing concerning a YouTube video of a chile being patted down. It was a young girl, and the airport security person was a woman, The Security person was very CALMLY and POLITELY explaining to the girl everything she was doing . She wasn't snappy or mean or pushy about it. Somehow, this video went viral and sent mainstream public into a frenzy. Then as I am walking out of the room, I hear a congressman smugly say how ridiculous it was about the IDEA of a child wanting to blow up a plane. At this point, I realized what a total idiot this guy was and wish I could have been there to personally tell him so and why I came to that conclusion. And here it is...simple as day: Terrorists do not think in a good, well meaning or respectful manner. They do not stop their plans based on their enemies tabbo morals. Yeah, what I am saying is that - while that senator , you, me, or anybody else could not lower ourselves to the position of using infants, children, or elderly as bomb carriers or suicide bombers - the terrorists DO! They have done, still do it and will continue to do it! And pasting all over the national news that we are all but going to stop checking the aforementioned people for such things only invites...no, begs the terrorists to use those means and methoods. Again, what people do not realize is that the terrorists does not use our line of thinking. They do not stop and say: , Wait! The infidel American pigs might be upset if we use little Billy as a bomb, send Achmed instead!" Nope! Not gonna happen. They do not share the same morals, ideals, or any kind of religious thoughts we do. And the whole point of security is to prevent/catch them before they do something based on their thinking and actions, not ours. So Mr. Congressman whose name I did not catch, wake up, look outside your window and see the real world as it is, now how you think it should be.
  5. Scoutfish

    Best Compliment you ever got as a Scouter.

    Going back to my old pack tonight to run the Pack meeting. The CM waon't be able to do it due to unexpected obligations. The rest of the leadership and committee got together and decided they wanted me to do it because they wanted the boys to have fun and enjoy it. Doesn't sound that big a deal , but I have moved over 30 miles away from my old residence which was already 12 miles from the CO. I live in an entirely different council. I asked the CC if they really needed me to do it and he said: " Oh Yeah! WE really, really need YOU to do this. We want the boys to enjoy scouting!"
  6. Scoutfish

    Pack Dues For 2nd Year Webelos

    They pay the full dues. Thing is, they are just completeling the full circle. See, way back when they joined as tigers, they paid Boy's Life, Insurance and registration fees to the council - not the pack. So when they came to the pack, the pack itself covered the cost of any and all recieved awards, pins, beltloops, etc..... until recharter comes in January. So, you geta free ride for 4 months( at end of year) as a Tiger, you pay full price ( at beginning of the year) for 3 months. So, anybody really feel that cheated over one month?
  7. Scoutfish

    DC at odds with Cubmaster

    " Perhaps it was discussed at a pack committee meeting which Blujacket didn't attend. Or perhaps Bluejacket didn't attend the program planning meeting where a decision was made. " Doesn't matter a single bit. Even the entire committee ( which exists only on paper) decides to not participate as a pack,fine - but they NEVER EVER have the authority or right to prevent families from doing things on their own. The families get to make the final decision as to wether they want to attend a scouting event. And if the CM thinks that this is competing with her program, then she needs to step back and improve her program. That's her issue, not the families, the districts or council's problem. Again, as the former CM, I worked really hard and the pack and it's members was able to reap the rewards of being able to choice which or all events they were going to. Personally, I didn't care much for a district event. Kinda dull, kinda crowded, kinda expensive. But I also don't like cherries. Doesn't mean anybody else feels the same way as me. Doesn't mean i have the right to ban cheries from pack cookouts or camp menus. Plenty of events that were posted for families to go to. Some familie would go to ever council/district evant as well as all pack events. Some would do half and half. Others would only go to pack events. Point is, in each case, they made up their own minds and made their own choices. If I was scared that the council was competition with my pack, then i would be the one with issues. Alot can be done in a years time. If one or two council/ district events ruins what your pack is doing, then you you ain't doing much at all and are doing a diservice to the scouts!
  8. Scoutfish

    DC vs Cubmaster - Grudge Match

    "So imagine on Monday morning, I'm making up a simple flyer for your unit - Pack X, United Methodist Church, meets blah blah, Cubmaster name and phone number." THis is where you should have stopped. You called and you left messages. So you didn't get a responce back in the time framce you decided on. Too bad. You offerend some help. Let it go at that. What if I decide your grass isn't cut as short as or as often as I like? Doesn't give me the right to go and cut your grass. Same about your laundry, oil changes on your car, etc... Not your decision, not your job. But as a former CM, I got your back 100% on telling the families about any and all scouting events!
  9. Scoutfish

    DC at odds with Cubmaster

    There are two seperate issues here: What is going on in this thread, and what is going on in the other. Two different issues with two different acceptabilities. In this thread - let's break it down: "My children attend school in the Pack's area, my wife works there also. So I do know many of the families and talk to them." These are friends and aqqaintances...not total strangers. He has regular contact that would happen even if not involved in scouting. "There are Council and District events the Pack does not participate in. Recently I was talking to a few parents while at school and discovered the families are not being told of events." Why do the families have no clue about these events? "Therefore, they are not getting getting the opportunity to attend activities that the Pack is not directly involved in." Wow! Not only does that suck, but is very unprofessional of the CM and unscoutlike! "I made it a point to invite those families I was talking to, to an upcoming event." I have done this to scouts who were not only not in my pack, but not even in my district! As do most leaders that are volunteer and paid. As Scouters, we support and promote scouting. It's what we do and part of our job as leaders. It's what scouting is all about! PERIOD! " I was soon approached by the Cubmaster about this (one of the families must have asked her for more details about the event). She stated that she felt the event was too expensive for the families ($9 event fee) and therefore decided that the Pack would not participate. " Replace "too expensive" with boring, stupid, waste of time or "not approved by CM ". It is not the CM's job to decide what is too expensive or what is affordable. The CM is overstepping her authority and out of line here. "I am 100% behind her on the decision to organize and participate as a Pack, or not." Yeah, that is the pack's right..meaning the whole pack or the committee or leaders who decide together. " However she is not giving the families the chance to make up their own minds to attend individually, because she's not telling them about it." Power hungry? Control freak? Has to be in absolute charge? Red flags and alarms going off everywhere. Is she going to be a SM one day who picks out and assigns eagle projects? Does she decide that MB.s not earbed within the troop are not valid? Do scouts ever go to summer camp? Are camp MB's written off as " not authorized? Where does it end? Forget Philmont or Betchel! Northern Tier?.....never gonna happen! What happens when a den leaders gets his den to go to resident camp? Is he suddenly on the CM's s*** list? Will CM decide that the DL is rogue and needs to be kicked out? Sorry, but like Beardad said, some of you need to get over yourselves. Remember why we are here, what it's about and not some huffy puffy social staus withing the scouting hierarchy! God forbid anybody other than the CM tell families about some scouting events. I guess if the CM decides she doesn't want to camp anymore, camping will become a non pack type activity. Maybe the CM will black list the council camp promotor and complain to the SE about the scout office mailing out flyers. Again, there are two seperate issues. DC overstepped his authority when he started printing flyers for recruiting. No arguement there, But CM does not have monopoly over who gets to talk to scouts and parents about scouting events and oppertunities. THis CM is gonna cause this pack to fold . No doubt about it.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)
  10. Scoutfish

    DC at odds with Cubmaster

    "Families may opt-in for emails and news. Put a flyer in the scout shop advertising that, if there isn't one already." While this is indeed true, you have to recognize that with most families, 98% of any scouting info the get ( at the pack level) comes from pack leadership. We as scouters tend to forget what it's like being a non scouter parent, or a new to scouting parent. With most things scouting related...you are not aware of it's existence if not being told by your leadership. G2SS? WHat is that? Never heard of it til I became an ADL and took ADL training. IT wasn't something the leadership at my pack ever brought up and I certainly didn't know you could buy a copy of it at the scout shop. Emails? Everything you do anywhere at anytime wants to sign you up for e-mails. I think we tend to check no on the boxes out of subconscious habit. My council wil not put you on the flyer mailing list until after you attend a camp event.....so what you have is a "Catch 22" situation: You won't get on the flyer list unless you go camping, but you won't ever go camping if you don't get a flyer announcing the events. Parents also tend to assume that the leaders know what they are talking about and trust those leaders. If the CM was to tell the parents that standing up in a moving canoe while shooting a bb gun at glass jugs of gasoline next to a bon fire is okay...then the parents will think it's okay even if a bad idea. So anyways, my point is this: A flyer at the scout shop may not ever bee seen by the average parent. E mails ( if even sent)may end up in a spam folder without the recipient even knowing about them. Benn there - done that! Mark
  11. Scoutfish

    DC at odds with Cubmaster

    Been a while since I posted, but gonna throw my $.02 in anyways... Screw the CM's wishes! THis isn't about the CM, This isn't about stepping around somebody's authority ( which doesn't exist in this particular issue) ! This is about scouts and their oppertunity/ ability to do a scouting activity! My pack used to have two pack campouts every year( before I became CM) . The funny thing was that they were held at the same time the council held it's parent/son weekends and at the same time as Resident camp. Seems the current CM thought council events were boring, over rated and too expensive. And the truth be told, they were overrated and kinda expensive. Problem is, she made the decisions for the families without ever giving them any chance to decide for themselves. Families were not aware of the events. When I became CM, I posted and advertised every council and distict event that was held wether I planned on going or not. It did not have to be a pack function. I did not have to personally like or enjoy the event myself. Wether a district fun day, council fun day, or even a non scouting event like an air show, festival, childrens museum event, etc.... - I posted it on the pack website and facebook page. A funny thing happened: Scouts, scouters, and parents started going to council events, district events, AND pack events. Scouts had more fun. Parents started helping out at events and planning meetings. Then you also had the families that couldn't make a pack event due to scheduling conflicts. Could be out of town that week, have another event they had to attend or even a sick scout. Guess what, they kept up their scouting intake by going to council/ district events also. So a scout/ parent doesn't make a pack event. What then? Scout has to wait til the next event whenever that happens? So, here's the deal.....Thwe issue here is a CM on a huge egotistical power trip who has taken it upon herself to make all decisions for the pack's families. Decisions that she does not need or have the right to make. So as a DC from another district, you may be overstepping the line going around her with recruiting, but as fas as making events known to the parents...I think you are doing the right thing as a scouter. The parents and scouts deserve the right to know about these events and make attendance decisions for themselves. Thy also have the right to decide what they can afford or not. The CM is not responcible for making these decisions. The CM is not Big Brother. That IS NOT the CM"s place to decide.
  12. I posted this thread here because even though socks are part of the uniform, this isn't about the who, what or why of uniforming. Okay, I have been camping more times in the last 5 years than I had been in the 36 previous years before. Faced mosquitos the size of humming birds, snakes, spiders,ticks, ants, bees, things that I am sure George Lucas wished he put in any of the Star Wars movies, and raccons( not direct contact). Never been stung, bit, attacked or eaten yet except a few skeeters and no see-ums. Last weekend, we did a service project for a National Park and as far as I could tell, everything was great. Didn't get bit by any bugs or ticks. So the night after we get back, I start itching all around my ankles. CHIGGERS!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Okay, I'm over the itching and my ankles almost look normal again. EVERYBODY got ate up by them except my son. Actually, he takes Cingular and Claratin for allergies, so that may have prevented the red itchy spots even though he may have still been eaten up. Okay, long story short: I see scouters and scouts ( usually camp staff) wear those long socks that go up to just under the knee. Sometimes green with red stripe, sometimes just green, sometimes whatever color that they just threw on. Does this have anything to do with chigger prevention or is it something else? Every spot where the chiggers got me was in fact coverd up by my socks AND sprayed very well with bug spray. But I suppose the socks could have soaked up the spray and dried up or they just went through the socks I nwas wearing.. Now, I don't wear ankle socks, even though I considered buying a few pairs for whe it is hot. I wear crew cut socks. I have never liked tall socks but if this would prevent chiggers in the middle of summer..I'd be willing to wear them. So, any relation or just a fashion statement? Thanks.
  13. I think you are mixing up two seperate issues here: 1) BSA's policies for being a member of BSA 2) Getting people to attend a fundraiser. BSA may disqualify you from joinginmg scouting for being gay or athiest, but believe you me..they will have no problem witha scout selling popcorn ( or whatever the fundraier is) to a gay or athiest. BSA joining requirements do not apply to hosting fundraisers for units, individuals or council. So, for your fundraiser, invite anybody and everybody you want.
  14. Okay, if you didn't know already, I bought a GI style jungle hammock. Bottom is thick canvas like they use on military tents. Sides are very, very fine mesh for air flow. Top is typical nylon tent material. Good to keep a few drops of rain off, but will let you get wet in a downpour. Besides that, the rain lip is about 3 inches wide, so rain would get you through the mesh sides anyways. Okay, so I used it for a week of summer camp and here's how it went: Sunday night: Slept kinda okay, but nothing great! Would have enjoyed more sleep, but wasn't a zombie when I woke up. Using a small throw pillow from the couch wasn't a great idea. Little bit thicker than what I am used to. Temps did drop in loow 60's - so that was really nice! Also discover that due to an illusion in the landscape, my feet are actually about 8 inches higher than my head. Monday Night Adjusted heights of tree straps so that hammock is level. Tried sleeping without pillow, was worse than having pillow. Slept better than Sun night, but still not spectacular. Tuesday night : After 2 1/2 days of camp, I am really looking forward to a good nights sleep. Somebody flipped the humidity switch on, so it's ...well....humid! Woke up around 3:30am due to raccons shaking our water cooler. Guess they were thirsty too. Sucks that they woke me up, but the good news is that I realize I was sleeping. Wake up a little closer to the ground than when I went to bed. WEdnesday night : Parents night. Get to bed a little bit later than usual. Somebody turned the humidity up a notch or five. Did I mention I was using my Coleman 40 degre bag as a cuchion? Wake up at 3:30 again to sound of racoons enjoying chicken and other food from campsite trashcan. Again, they shook water cooler. Maybe the sound of ice against the insides of the coler are some sort of racoon discoteque dancebeat? Party on coons, party on. Woke up even closer to the ground. Thurday night : Tightened up the slack between hammock and tree straps. Adjusted the head a bit higher and removed the rope spreaders I made for the bottom side of hammock ( many, many people suggested this on the hammock forums website ). Now the bottom has more of a cradle shape. Slept better, but humidity was even higher. Thought a spider was crawling on my face and when I went to brush it off ( in a very unmanly panic) - discovered it was just sweat rolling off my head. Friday night: Hammock has finally loosened up and stretched as much as it is going to - for now. Except that the humidity was so high, I slept pretty good. Couch pillow is almost molded to my head thanks to all the sweat that it absorbed. Made note to throw away pillow....not sure washing machine will conquer that smell. Saturday morning Took me about 5 minutes to break down everything I had from taking down hammock, taking down rainfly, removing my ground tarp, rolling up hammock, sleeping bag, and removing my backpack of clothes. I did get to sit and relax while everybody else still broke down their tents, rainflys , and ground cloths. So..... It was my first time ever using a hammock aside from a 30 minute nap here orv there on a backyard rope hammock. I figure it is something that you have to adjust to. I also figure the average person doesn't sleep in one for a whole week the very first time they use one. I am guessing the hammock is doing what it is supposed to, and it's me that has to "break in" to a hammock. So, I definantly enjoyed it with all things considered. I am going to buy myself a new pillow for my bead and use the one I have now for camping. It's a posturepedic latex foam pillow, so I can wash it and that fact also probably had alot to do with my level of sleeping. Did I mention I bought this hammock at a military surplus store? BRand new in an unopened package for $35.00 Spent &5.00 on two 1,000lb rated 12'X 1 1/2 " lift straps that I used for tree straps, and $28.00 on 100 foot of 300lb rated 5/8" rope. Total cost of $68.00 I just reused my ground cloth as a floor and my rainfly tarp that I used over my tents rainfly as an oversized canopy. This covered my hammock, but also gave me a shady area where I sat in my camp chair, used another camp chair as a dresser ( holding my clothes pack) and an under sheltor clothesline for my shirts and shower towel. Here's a picture ....If I did the link right: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=480140708680884&set=o.172739770499&type=1&theater
  15. Depends on the award. Award knots are presented at the end of pack meetings when they are earned. Pack unit awards are presented during B&G and at crossovers and year end rank graduation. WE don't overshadow rthe scouts but do get the scouts involved by being the ones who present the actual awards to the leaders.
  16. How do you get parents to understand? A few examples: 1) As we gathered right before leaving for summer camp, our AC again stressed that it was a "Soda free" event. He mentioned ( again) how scouts should have already been drinking plenty of water BEFORE the day of departure. At this point, a mom says to her son( with a sly smile): " So how is your ( wink , wink ) tea?" Son replies : "My ( wink, wink )tea is good!" Problem was his tea was very obviously fizzy and carbonated. Coke, Pepsi, Dr Peper or some other dark carbonated cola. 2) We tell scouts to be sure to put on sunscreen before venturing out for the day at summer camp - especially if they are going to waterfront( shirtless) . One or two scouts tell us: "I don't know if I have sun block!" So I ask: "What do you mean you don't know ? Didn't you pack it with you? We gave you a list of stuff to bring> We did a shakedown the night before leaving." " But my mom packed my stuff, I didn't pack anything!" 3) Dad/ mom says these are the MB's I need to do first, so I'm not working on Geocaching( during geocaching camporee) requirements. 4) Mom sys I can wear flip flops to camp if I want to! 5) Scout shows up to load his gear on scout trailer before departure and has three big clear plastic totes. One has sleeping bag, blanket and clothes, next one has battery operated fans, electric fan ( must have a 67 mile extention cord?) and video game. Third tote is full of sodas, boxES of candy,4 or 5 packs of cookies, twinkies, pop tarts, etc..... His 3 totes would have taken up as much space as the next 8 scouts backpacks. I say would have as we put a stop to it. Problem is - we have said time and time again about no electronics, video games, ton of junk food. And no, we don't mind scouts bringing some snacks, but this kid could have opened his own mimi-mart at a 2 night camp! So, obviously, these parents are fighting us behind the scenes. I don't think they are purposly being malicious or intentionally trying to cause ill will or problems. It's just that they "know their own son better" and they don't think what we say applies to their angel. So no doubt, I am gonna have to have a sit down with mom and/or dad, it's just that I realize there may be a more tactful way of talking to them than what I am plnning on saying. Nah, I do not plan to bite their heads off, just going to tell them there is a reason for everything we say wether they realize it or not....and it applies to junior too. So, I know some of you rode this horse before. Any advice? And just for the fun of it, what issues did you have?
  17. Scoutfish

    Weighty Matters at Philmont...

    Weight is not the sole judgement nore is it the final factor. On part C, there is even a paragraph explaining that the BMI may be used in place of just weight limits. 20% for females, 15% for males. I weight in at 257 pounds right now. I sure could stand to lose 15 pounds. I am 6'2 1/4" tall. But my BMI puts me in a good spot. We have an ASM in our troop who weighs 270 +/- . This guy probably has less than 3 pounds of fat on his body. He is bulit like a brick outhouse! Strong, toned, and could bench press his own weaight without any problems. Technically, he is grossly obese by the med forms. But realistical;ly, the man is a walking mass of muscle. Not saying the rollie pollies are withing the BMI, just saying that weight alone should not be a factor
  18. Scoutfish


    I have been on both sides of that fence too. When I see scouts from other units doing something they shouldn't, I usually don't say anything unless it involves a threat of injury, safety, bullying, or some other type of damage. I also feel like I am sticking my nose where it doesn't belong. But I also know that some mean scouts purposely wait til they are away from an adult leader ( within their own unit) to "get" the victim. On the other side of things, I do know I will be more likely to go out of my way when my scouts are observing. I guess it makes a good example for them. I bet you are like me in one sense: We tend to get biased over our own scouts and we tend to defend them no matter what if somebody from another unit calls them out. If our own leaders/parents do it, it's okay. But if another person from another unit does....look out! I have learned to speak up more and do it more tactfully. As an example, we just recently did an overnight campout/ service project at a National park in a combined effort with another troop. As we were getting ready to leave, we formed a trash line to make sure any and all trash in our area was picked up. WEll, it ended being only the boys from out troop ( 11) formed the line and the boys from the other troop ( 3 ) just sat under the shelter area. As our boys walked by the shelter - specifically in the area where the other troopp had set up it's kitchen/cooking area - the SPL from the other troop starts yelling and dressing down our scouts for not picking up 3 pieces of trash that were practically undet that troops table. NOw, this SPL was also just standing there and mde noeffort all weekend to pick up anything. So - while realizing that pieces of trash are not individually assigned to anybody and that we were picking up all trash from whoever dropped it from whenever they dropped it at this park......well, it got under my skin that this scout was doing nothing at all, about his own mess and then yelling down at "my" boys for it. So, I was tactfull, but also very, very firm in telling him : "WEll then, pick it up as you join the trash line like everybody else." The look on his face told me that he was neither used to people talking to him like that and that he never had invovlement with clean up.( his troop adults were cleaning up stove s and DO's, not the scouts. So, I guess we do our best too. We strive for better, hope we don't do worse.
  19. Scoutfish

    Doggerel..... at dinner?

    Mind you, this year was my first year at summer camp, but not my first time dealing with boy scoouts. I really enjoyed the flag ceremonies. Especially the evening one when announcements were made directly afterward ( right before dinner). The staff would always do a ( insert name here) check and pile on like a football team piling on whoever got tackled. I loved the whole ditty and song that came when somebody said "announcements" I especuially like the verse about windbags and submarines. Again, I have no issue with the dining hall spirit challenge, just give extra time to let use eat our food before we end up wearing our food.
  20. Scoutfish

    Summer Camp lessons learned - 2012

    Sounds like you did a great job. I like the fact that you realize no matter how good things are, we can alwats improve somewhere or try to make it better. When we go to camp, having parents tag along has never been an issue...so far. They seem to get that they can't go. Even the ones who will miss their kids to death. They never consider the idea of going to camp. They'd rather go bring thier son home the first day. As a ASM along with any other adult leader or the SM, we always make a point of "offering" any and all suggestions to the SPL or ASPL . WE never give them to the scouts unless a scout aproaches us directly, and then only if it's not a group related question that could be handled by the SPL or ASPL. When we do offer advice to the SPL/ASPL, we always do it in a quite manner and not confrontational or directly in ront of other scouts. IF something is starting to go bad, we always pull the youth leader aside under the pretense of something else that is very important. At the dining hall, we were assigned two tables. There was always a mix of adults with boys. There were also always at least one staff member et every tables and sometimes our camp guide too. Our staff guest was a different one each day. Neat thing is that each meal, a different scout was asigned as a waiter to each table. They went to the dining hall 15 minutes early for breakfast and dinner ( lunch was cafeteria style) and set up plates,m utensils, drinks and that meals food on platters. That waiter was also assigned post dinner cleanup. On Friday night, when we were having the IronScout race, the SM, the AC and myself ( ASM) told the scouts to go ahead and we'd clean up for them. Showing them that it's okay to step up to help somebody out when things come up. Other than that, we never did their job for them during camp. WE never let them do our job, cleanup our messes, etc for us either. I totally agree with you, we do not use them for our servants or as personal assistants. Scouts did learn personal responsibility from us as we demonstarted it it every day.
  21. Scoutfish

    Patch Placements

    ZScout5, check your Leaders uniform inspection sheet again. BSA Uniform inspection guide ( PDF ) from Boy Scout Trail: http://www.boyscouttrail.com/external_frame.asp?goto=/docs/uniform_male.pdf BSA Leaders uniform inspection sheet from BSA.org ( PDF ) http://scouting.org/filestore/cubscouts/pdf/34048.pdf " Cub scout leaders and female leaders wearing the official uniform shirt or blouse may wear one temporary insignia centered about the Boy Scouts of America strip. " Cub Scout leaders AND Female leaders. Meaning any cub scout leader andfemale leaders in other types of units. Otherwise they would have just said female leaders and not mention cub scouts.
  22. You ever just see, read or observe something that just totally changes the way you feel about something? Maybe not instantly, but it could take a few hours, a few days, weeks or even a month or year. And it's not a life changing time to repent on you sould type of change, just a minor change in how you do something or the rational behind what you do/ did. Okay here's what did it for me: "I don't care for singing for lost stuff, either. Doesnt' seem Scoutlike to me. Courtesy dictates that I cheerfully return the things I find to their owners." - Twocubdad Twocubdad is right too. As a scout ( scouter in my case) isn';t it part of my promise to help other people at all times to hand over - without any expectation of service, song, reward, etc... any property I find that belongs to somebody else? NOw, I myself was all about the singing for lost stuff. Of course, we did it in a good natured fun way, and as to date, the scouts actually enjoy the spot light. They get to ham it up and try to top each other with the hammy singing skills. But that isn't the point is it? So what if they are all okay with it ...so far. That isn't what the scout law or oath says. It doesn't say I will help other people at all times unless I get a chance to rub it in or get a chance to ham it up and goof off. No, not a federal offene on our part and I don't really expect anybody to go Charles Manson on us because he had to sing for a hat or book 20 years ago. What I am getting at is the Principal of it. In principal, we should enjoy the good feeling we get from reuniting somebody with their lost or misplaced property. It's our " Do a good turn daily" . It's our KIND , COURTEOUS , LOYAL ( to each other) , HELPFUL , FRIENDLY , and keeping with " To help other people at all times..." So, in my case, I saw what Twocubdad wrote and it didn't really stand out or mean much to to at the time. But I have mulled it over and the thought just kept popping back in my head over and over. The fact the idea wouldn't go away says something in itself. So today I realized that making a scout sing for stuff ( although not necessarily a bad or evil act ) is indeed opposite of what we promise to do time after time again. Okay, I said my piece. You can agree or disagree...I am okay with that. Just had to state my feelings on this. Mark
  23. Scoutfish

    Anti Scout Law type of behavior ?

    "C'mon, admit it Scoutfish. You're a communist, aren't you? " NYET!
  24. Scoutfish

    How do you get through to parents?

    Mainly, it's one mom. She's the worst of them all. Other parents totally get it . Matter of fact, those parents say it's okay to whatck the scout on the back of the head if necessary! I'm almost to the point of taking a hand stapler and stapling the broken rule to her forehead everytime she does. And again, it's not like she's purposely trying to be malicious about it...she just truely thinks that she and her son's situation dosn't quite apply .
  25. Scoutfish

    Pack Family Camp

    "Yes, I do have the training through Council, though it is called Leader outdoor experience, it combines BALOO and the Weblos camp training in one. The don't go into detail of a pack camp out." If this is true, they they have totally screwed up the whole point of the training. BALOO is specifically about pack camping. What you have taken is like taking math without discussing numbers. Luckily, you can buy the book at your scoutshop: BALOO guidebook (Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation), No. 34162 Again, if they didn't cover anything to do with pack campouts, then they didn't cover anything to do with BALOO.