Scoutfish

Popcorn huh? Not a bad idea! I'm going to have to buy complete starter sets , because we have nothing - no launch pads, no controlers , anything. At first, I just planned on buying ready to fly rockets, but decided I should let the den leaders decide if they want to build their own..based on their dens ability.

I want to bring some model rockets to our pack. By that, I mean I want to use them in some den meetings as both teaching tools and just because...well admit it...they are just cool! Now, I know that you can use them in different ranks under engineer, space and science , build a model, space.things that go, and scientist...and for just holding an outside den meeting. WEll. the kinds of lessons you could have with rockets is only limited by your imagination. Things is, I want to know what you did. Did it work okay? Could you have done something better? What rank was the best to integrate rockets into? Sure , Webelos would be the obvious answer at first, but maybe Wolves or Bears responded more? I just got my catalog, and am ready to order a few (complete) starter kits (as we have nothing at all right now). Any advice is appreciated!

AMEN! But for entertainment (mine) purposes only as I think this will bring the intensity levels to a higher level than politics ever has! Politics can make people argue . Religion can make people fight!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Gern...BWAH HA HA HA!

I was in the shower today when I remembered something I posted to a NASCAR website. Different site, but same point and it applies here just the same: Statistics and numbers do not lie - but they don't tell the whole truth either. In the NASCAR discussion, we were talking about how many people look at a driver's skil based on where he is in the points standings. The problem is, the points are assigned at the ned of the race based entirely on how you finished the race. The exception being bonus points fro leading a lap and for leading the most laps. So, lets say a race of 500 laps starts. A driver just mashes the gas, gets a great start and jumops out ahead of everybody. He gets a great enough lead that he keeps the lead the entire race ..even after pit stops and caution flags. Yet on the next to the last lap, he blows a tire, spins out and totals his car. The final talley: He comes in last place and gets the least amount of awarded points plus 5 bonus points for leading a lap and 5 more for leading the most laps..yet, still comes in as 3 lowest point position for that day. As far as the numbers are concerned...he is the 41st worst driver. The stats do not say he was dominating the entire race and kicking butt and only knocked out by a flat tire...which is entirely not of his own doing. Totally out of his control. So..technically, the numbers are correct, but the numbers are not telling the whole story or the whole truth. Granted, BSA is not NASCAR, but BSA is still using stats. They may not lie, but they may be holding back very important info that nobody at BSA knows.

Moose, Something I usewd to say before I started having fun with them: " Okay, here's the deal guys - If I have a different belief, you will not change it. If I share the same belief, then your wasting time on somebody who already agrees.Have a nice day!" Then I spent a few years saying :"Thanks for stopping by. You wouldn't be interested in purchasing a new garage door and door opener would you?" Followed by me grabbing a big stack of garage door literature. If/when they acted offended, I would simply say: " Hey, I am doing the same thing as you, except you knocked on my door, not the other way around!" Last but not least: Jeff Foxworthy came up with: Draw a chalk outline of a person's body on your front doorstep and scatter a few religious pamphlets on the ground!

moose, I did not mean to imply that you had been called anti religious. I have been called that by some. I was just saying that I agreed with and felt the same way about a great many of your beliefs as you stated them. As far as the door to door religious salesmen, I do learn about others views..which I like as I am a curious person. LIfe is an experience in itself and all encounters are oppertunities to learn. BUT....the mischevious side of me loves a good arguement. I can causae some of the most faithful to stumble because they are "X" denomination because..well, because their dad was. Beyond that, they have no clue. Like the kid who has no doubt that a Chevy ( or whatever brand of truck) is the best damn truck ever because hjis dad, and his grand dad ande his great- grandad had a Chevy. In truth, the boy doesn't know what not having a Chevy is. All the other brands could be better as far as the boy's experience is concerned. LOL! I do have respect for others beliefs and support their right to have them even if they are wrong! Just kidding. But I do not feel respect to those who do not respect others beliefs. There is a difference between respect and condoning or following. I respect everybody's right to be different from me. I will stand up for their right to be different. But I can do so without sharing their belief.

WOW! Mosetracker, we think a lot alike. A whole lot alike! I have been labeled as "anti- religious" in the past. I have been labeled by the "Knock on your door then knock on your morals" traveling missionaries who pretty much looked at me like scum when I did not follow their system of beliefs. To behonest,. I look forward to the occasional traveling religious salesman. I'll argue religion all day long and have fun. About 3 years ago, I had some 17 or 18 year old boys stop by the house and conducting their own inquisition of my beliefs. So when they asked me what I believed, I told them. And told them, and told them more. 1 hour later, the "leader" of the 3 boys was tugging at his collar and asking if they could come back. Another was just mad because I didn't tell him his beliefs in my voice. The 3rd actually said something about listening to some more of what I was saying .....until the other two cut him "one of those" looks! So anyways, I do not have an issue with God or religion, but I do not feel the need to waste my time joining a club of people who take religion and make a social club or power and control committee out of it. Incidentally packsaddle....."So....someone help me connect all this to the thread topic on homosexual scouts" I'd say that the implication is that a scout who claimes to be homosexual cannot be religios or believe in a "god" as requested/required by BSA. I also think this is a bunch of crap (The implication - not BSA's rule) as that is a condition lent by individuals who's own religious beliefs say a gay person cannot believe or be moral...and has absolutely nothing to do with the actual homosexual scout's beliefs, thoughts or feelings. But that is an arguement for another thread.

Not so much a label...in the sense of creating one, but if one already exists as to my stance concerning religion. JKnow what I mean? I never heard the term "deist" before joining this site. Ignorance or just never coming across it? Beats me, but the fact is, I never heard the term. Labels do not matter to me in the sense I feel the need to belong. I could care less what group I fall under as far as needing to belong or bragging rights, but I am a curious person by nature. I would like to know just for the sake of knowing. It won't change how I think or feel, but I could say: "Cool, I am an "X" " .

I wouldn't call it an opinion. I'd say a belief is something you feel deeply...to your core. It's more than an opinion could ever be. An opinion may change from day to day: Cheeseburgers are the best food ever!" ...until maybe you try a sloppy joe ? But a bielief is something that is *almost* ingrained in an instinctual way. Merlyn: Is atheism your opinion, or something you truely believe/ follow without a doubt? I mean,is it just your opinion until somebody gives a better arguement to sway you, or is it akin to a strait up fact for you? You get what I mean? It could be my opinion that 70 degrees is cold while your opinion is that 70 degrees is hot. Scientifically, 70 degrees is just that: 70 degrees. As far as scouts who change...Yeah, I get that. Some people have things/ events/ life altering "awakenings" to ideas and thoughts that completely change their belief in many things...religion not withstanding. A child could truely have faith in God or it could just be years of mom and dad conditioning it. I knew a many friends who "believed" because "Dad said so!" Given time, maturity and intellectual development, people may reasses their priorities and reconsider what they truely believe vs what mom and dad told them to believe. I agree with Merlyn that a scout could truely have a change in belief and find himself an athiest after years of believing. Likewise, I have known people to change religions, and also to start believing after years of not believing. People evolve, change and reinvent themselves...wether they are aware they are doing it or not. Shoot...just get married and have kids. If that doesn't change your life outlook and priorities...I dojn't know what will!

I read a quote not to long ago: "I like God, it's his fans I am not so sure about!" Works for me!

Gern, what would you call me? Deist is close, but no cigar to my beleifes on it. I have my belief in God, Yet I do not follow "standard" religion as I believe man has corrupted and tainted it for his own purposes soooo many times as to make most religions a "faith based political tool" instead of a real religion. Unlike Deists, I do believe God will step in in certain situations - dpendant on the person's state of mind, need or overall attitude of life. Myself included - ( I was diagnosed with stage III cancer and accepted that I was lucky to have what I already had axcumilated and accopmplished. I felt that I was still lucky compared to many, many peole. Then just like that..I was given a clean bill(( to the Dr's suprise)) of health in a situation that so many are getting worse) Could it be explained logically...sure, I suppose so, but I have a deeper belief something else happend based on my attitude and general morals. So anyways, I can go along with alot of the deist belief system, but not completley. So what would that make me? I haven't heard a name for it yet.

Well.....withoutbeing there, it's hard to have a "true" opinion. Know what I mean? But I'd say( based on your post) that it's done and over with. AS far as : ASM#1 leaving thr troop...REally? Just like that? One thing happens and everybody doesn't bend over and do things his way and he's gone? Good bye, good riddance, and don't let the rainfly hit your back side! Now, one thing to look at is the fact that the two boys are brothers. Sure, that "shouldn't" justify fighting, but siblings ted to irk each other more, have a different manner with each other and will treat each other differently than the rest of the boys in the troop. Why? Because it's "just" my brother! Here's the thing ( and you know this too) Boys get into fights sometimes. While I wouldn't always brush it under the rug, I also wouldn't dish out punishment or take a drastic stand every time words were had or a push comes to a shove. Boys tend to work things out. BUT...It it happens ALL THE TIME...Somebody needs to adress the boys and explain that a certain kind of behavior is expected of every scout in the troop towards other scouts. Even if it is "just" your brother! Incidentally, It's one thing to take a scout home from a 30 mile away trip, but 600 miles? Nope,I wouldn't leave early either. And while we are at it, KUDO's to the dad for not trying to overstep the SM oor ASM's. Sounds like dad gets that he is a participating observer and not a leader. He steped back and allowed the troop the opertunity to handle it.

Different people, different locales, different countries...all get something different out of the same thing. Me, I use all caps when I am stressing a point - not yelling. To me, "yelling" on a computer is stupid: You can't hear me, so now I'll yell anfd you still can't hear me. I increased the non-volume of my statement. If I use caps, it means an emphasis on something, not yelling. I "reckon" that you "pretty much" get most of what I "yakked" at yah , right?

You have to love a nation that celebrates its independence every July 4, not with a parade of guns, tanks, and soldiers who file by the White House in a show of strength and muscle, but with family picnics where kids throw Frisbees, the potato salad gets iffy, and the flies die from happiness. You may think you have overeaten, but it is patriotism. -Erma Bombeck

You have to be careful when it comes to hand symbols and gestures.....especially in a foreign country as there are MAJOR DIFFERENCES IN MEANINGS! For example: In Great Brittain, giving the "V" ( for victory) is a gesture that means the same as giving somebody the bird in the US. In Brazil, the A-OK sign ( forefinger touching thumb) is the sam as calling them an A-hole. In America, holding your hand up- palm out means stop or shut up( "Talk to the hand" ) but in Asian countries, this is politely ASKING permission to speak.

I'd like to add something here....Thuis is a great educational oppertunity too. When ever we had a flag raising ceremony or color guard ceremony inside...there were always one or two scouts who would say: " Don't drop the flag or you have to burn it!" Yeah, we told them that this was not correct..but you know how kids are - it gets stuck in their heads. So about an hour before our flag retirement ceremony, we talked to them about what you really do. We made an age appropriate prresentation/ talk about the US flag code and misconceptions. If a flag touches the ground or something below it, the proper procedure is to adjust or raise the flag as to not disgrace the flag...not burn it. Then we explained that buring the flag just for any ole thing was insulting for the flag. I then explained that burning the flag at a retirement ceremony was a sign of respect to the flag as the only other option was to throw it away where it could end up in a landfill with trash and covered with rotting food, coffee grounds or something nasty like that. You get what I mean? Not a heavy lecture or too deep a conversation, but a simple explanation of why we do what we do. When the time came for the flag retirement...I swear that the Cubs saluted a little bit straighter and more pasionately. I haven't heard a word about buring a flag that touches the ground since.

I can't remember the guy'sname. but saw a stand up comedian on tv once.....who was talking about the peanut butter and jelly that you can buy that is already mixed together: "Oh man, I'm just too busy to have to stivk my knife in the peanutbutter jar AND the jelly jar too. Then I have to spread both on my bread too? NO WAY! That's just too much work!" "Why not toss in some croutons and call it a sandwhich in a jar? All you need is a spoon!"

What an idiot! He should have consolidated and sold Pine Wood Derby cars in cans!

Well, well, well....That fish sure has style!

Can anybody tell me the name a of a company or store that sells canoes. I do not want a plastic kayak, and I do not want an old time style canvas over wod frame canoe. I just want a basic aluminum or fibreglass canoe. So far, all my internet searches have lead me to kayaks or inflatable canoes. All I want is a basic canoe for me and my son to explore in. Thanks! Mark

The SWAT team chasing them: "Hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut hut......"

I can say that I, without a doubt - will back this up. A few weeks ago, my son was at a birthday/pool party. about 12 kids there, all from the same class at school. Well, the dad pre screened everybody about the ability to swim and sunscreen before anybody was allowed in the pool area. He gave a thorough talking too. But you know how it is...when some parents drop kids off, the kid has to do the answering because the parent has done hightailed it! WEll, I was sitting about 10 foot from the water with all trhe other parents ( those who chose to stay at the party) and just scanning the water. I noticed this one girl who was treading water, then sank down under the water. She came back up and used her hands to brush her hair back from her face. Seen it thousands of times. Nothing to consider a threating situation. Then she did it again. Then again. Well,I figured what "might" be going on, so I got up and walked to where she was ( about a foot from the side of the pool. As I was about 5 foot from her, her brother jumps in beside her and just sinks. He pushes back up off the bottom and as soon as his face breaks the water, he sinks again. About this time, I jumped in and grabbed the boy and flung him out of the water. The homeowner had jumped in by this time and was pushing the girl up out of the water. So everybody tells me that I did a great job of jumping in and saving a boy that they didn't even know was in the water. Most of them didn't see a thing until I jumped in myself. The funny thing is....Had I not glanced at that girl and continued to watch her for a bit...I would have had no idea about the distress she was in. Matter of fact, I wasn't entirely sure ..all the way to the point I jumped in to get the boy out( who jumped in to save his sister even though he couldn'r swim either!) The girl did not panic (outwardly) did not say a thing nor give any impression whatsoever that she was in trouble. Nope! She looked like she was just getting hair out of her face. I have no idea why I watched her for more than a few seconds or why my attention stayed with her. So, I concur...drowning doesn't look like drowning!

LIBob, yes, boating alone is outside scouting. That is my point! Matter of fact, 94% ( if not more) of my life is outside of scouting. That's why we call it the real world, and not "The World According To Scouting Rules". Now as for Gun safety, I usually don't have a guin buddy with me. But I do have a nice collection of trophies for shooting. None of them are for "Buddy shooting". Aples to oranges: If I fall out of a boat, I may drown. Just me, nobody else going with me. If I choose to handle my rifle in a careless way, chances are greater that I will hurt/kill somebody besides me. Again, the pont you are missing, with the original post is that outside of scout functions, it is not always easy or practical to follow what you do at a bona fide scout sanctioned, scout type function or program.

But that's the whole point LIBob ! When I worked my crab pots or flounder nets, I did not have a buddy in my boat, nor did I have a buddy boat with me. Why? Because I was working. So were others. You cannot just ask and expect somebody to follow yo around all day..unless you plan on paying them. And in that case, where do I sign up? "under any circumstances besides ...." prety much relates to anything outside scouting. Could be a commercial fisherman, a wildlife resource officer, Marine fisheries officer, any person who makes a living in his boat. As for swimming, no...you cannot make sure there is always somebody with you. It's prefered, but not always possible. I have found myself swimming ( intentionally) although it wasn't in my plans earlier in the day. Drop something( accidentally) valuable off a sea wall, dock, bulkhead, pier, etc.... Again, this ia great reference, but applies to a scouting function on scouting time. All the drownings were NOT scouting function nor on scouting time. Had they been, I'm pretty sure there would be no material for the original post!