Scoutfish

Barry, I just had two melanoma operations : one in Nov of '09 and Dec of '09.Not completely sure about the price tag on the first as it was $100 % insurance covered, but I do know the 2nd one was $59,743.17 I am not an instant overnight cancer awareness advocate, but I will show my scars to any and every scout who declares" I don't need no sunscreen!" I have a scar that runs from even with and 2 inches behind the very top of my right ear lobe, down to my shoulder, around the front and straight across to 1 inch below and dead under my Adam's apple. My melanoma was never on my skin though...my immune system attacked it and drug it to my lymph node that sat right at the point where my neck and shoulder met. My ( what is supposed to be) half a garden pea size lymnph node was swollen to the size of 1 and a half grade A X large chicken eggs. I lost 19 lymph nodes, my Sternocleidomastoid muscle, and my right side Spinal Accesory Nerve was severed in the process. Okay, it's all gone, pathology says I am clear, my 6 month PET scan on 7-14-10 came back clear too. The best they can figure was it all started back when I wa 18 years old and spent 3 days stright playing inter fire depeartment softball. I got sunburnt to the point of water blisters all over my back. Took 20 years to become melanoma.

Nah, I think you did the right thing. Based on trhe past history, the tension that still exists and the fact that some "former collegues" seem to have a great view of anal anatomy....then nothing you would have said would have mattered. We all know the type too. You could point out that washing your hands with gasoline and drying with a blow torch are a bad idea....and "THAT" person would swear on their flaming 3rd degree deathbed that you are just trying to cause trouble because you are jealous and do not like them because of YOUR issues. LOL! Nothing you say would be taken constructively even if Maccuza ( sp?) himself backed you up on it. The sad thing is, the kid is getting robbed and the egos in charge would rather screw the kid than consider anything you might possibly say. You can't talk a broken ship out of sinking....all you can do is swim away...oh wait, that is for Sea Base! LOL! (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

First thing I want to point out is this: Just like we have higher expectations on our own kids, we have hiher expectations on the scouts in our troops and the scouts inour packs. Now, you may not even realize this either. Okay, look at Navy Seal training: The guys have to make somany underwater laps in a pool and in a certain amount of time. I have watched on TLC where a guy passed out right as he was getting out of the pool and still passed. Why? Because he completed the laps as prescribed in the requirements. Anything after that wasn't in the reguirement. Basically, I am saying...the requirements say you have to swim "X" distance using "X" number of styles and making a sharp turn , right? It doesn't say you have to be an expert, be in Olympic synchronized form, or be stylish in it. Bad or poor form is still a form. Point is, they will only get better with experience and exposure. Better form comes with experience.Having passed that merit badge does not mean that thes scouts are suddenly turned loose about 6 miles off the coast of India without any safeguards or suppervision. Earning anything with scuba is probably not as bad as swiming: At least in scuba, you have a SCUBA TANK WITH AIR IN IT! ( not yelling - emphasizing. Now you could be completely correct though. So what do wqe know: It's possible you are being too harsh. Possible is the key word. It is possible the camp had a half A**ed program. But could be just fine too. What I would do is ask a 4th party indepndant person to watch,, evaluate and then give you an honest opinion on the scouts ability as well as form. Maybe even aska 5th person. Somebody not tied to the scouts or camp, but in scouting and familiar with the requirements.

I have no doubt my pack would show the upmost respect if he showed up.......if they recognized him that is! WE did a welcome back greeting of WW II vets retrurning from the WWII memorial in DC. The boys were lauging and joking, cutting up, being all antsy ( you know....boy stuff) . But as soon as we told them that the vets were about to step through the doors, they all stod up, snapped their atrms up in a salute and ....honestly..surprised me with how well they stood at atention and saluted the WWII vets as they walked off the plane.

"A distant relative was an officier on the Graf Zeppelin,...." Tell me that we will not see Scooby Doo or Snoopy in flames!

Why not call it Ben's red hot FRANklins distric? LOL! Seriously, is there not some regional landmark who's name could be used?

WEll, it's not so much Obama himself that we have as an honorary president, but the position of office itself. The (office of the) President of the United States is honory president of the BSA...what trumps that? Thing is, can you say that you did hear this from every other president? I haven't. But then again, I do not pay extra attention to what each president personally things about every little thing. Not that you could really seperate truth from spin anyways! In the end, it's all about publicity, votes, and bragging rights: President says he supports something( doesn't matter if he really does or not) - this gets him and the "something publicity and attention. This in turn can bring in a ton of votes. It also brings in bragging rights for the "something", which in this case is the BSA. It's a win-win situation all around. If Obama or Bush, or even Clinton said the BSA was a bunch of wasted time...what would we lose? How many scouts would suddenly drop from the rosters? Unless the parents were over enthusiastic political junkies...nothing would change!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I'm thinking that no, I wouldn't like them. My line of thought is this: A SM or CM can always step down or "retire" if they feel they are getting burned out. The committies, CO or COR can always ask/ demand the SM or CM step down if they are not able to perform in a manner that is suitable or( for a lack of a better word) "profitable" to the program . I do not mean monetary either, but in quality. Basically put, there are ways to remove a dud from the position. But what if somebody comes along with a great refreshing insight to the program? What if the next best thing shows up...and you toss them out just as they are really about to bring the pack/troop to life in ways that nobody is used to. But before they do...they are cut off due to time limits. The first year is a learning process. Takes time to get up to speed and find your groove...especially in a pack/troop that was lackluster in their program. Pretty much, you can get rid of a bad apple, but sometimes, things need time to bloom all the way before you chunk them! But that's just my opinion.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

You know Trevorum, I was brought up by a "Christian" family. Parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles. Always told I should bow my head to pray because to not do so was disrespectful. But it has always been my opinion that: If the God I believe in truely exists, then he is definantlt wiser and more than mature enough to know that true disrespect is brought about by attitude and not a simple gesture or lack of. I too look UP in reverence istead of bowing to pray. I fel my God is every where, not simply reduced to an upward or downward direction as dictated by man...but if he is "up" as most prescribe to.....then I want to face him istead of looking away. Kinda the same way my parents used to say" It's rude to look away from somebody you are talking to or being talked to by".

I think that's reasonable. ME TOO!

Tell the Buddhist that it's being pc. Not sure where 1% number came from, but is that how it works? 13th point of the scout law ?: The scout respects the beliefs of others unless they are less than the minimum number or percentage of the pack? 50% of scout are Protestant, 40% are Catholic and 9% are LDS, and 1% is Buddhist. What if it was 50% Buddhist, 40 % Muslim, 5% Hindu, 3% LDS and 2% Protestant? All are 100% SCOUTS! tell them that ( in the spirit of scouting)all are equal. Besides, there is a difference between trying to accomidate all and the previous conversation about providing for 4 groups. I'm pretty sure that BSA could manage at a huge national event to find somebody to fill in.

"...but I also enjoy poking badgers with sticks" That is so WRONG! AS a scouter ( ie nature lover) You should be sooooo ashamed! We lead the future generations by example. THose of us who do not respect badgers today...will not respect anything tommorrow! Except chihuahuas. Everybody knows they are just big rats on crack!

I'd never condone a "For the majority" service, and I'll tell you why: Where and when did anybody give me, you or anybody else the rigfht to decide that one faith is more important than another? Or you can look at it this way: If you happened to be theminority, how would it sit with you? How would you feel? Good! That's how others might feel! Sure, in MY opinion ( and belief) my faitrh is superior to everybody elses. BUT.......I know, acknowledge and understand that everybody else feels the exact same way. I do not expect them to accept their faith to be dismissed as "unimportant" , no more than I would. Try to accomidate everybody to the best of your ability? YES! Decide just to work for the majority? NOPE! To do so is an affront to the 12th point of the scout law.

Every time I see something that starts out" I got this e-mail..." I see flags and hear bells. It could be false or could be true, but if it starts with "I got this e-mail"....., I'm skeptical right away!

Just a curious thought I had. I'm not suggesting, condoning or implying that there should be a troop or pack regulation uniform...just wondering, I'm thinking of buying me a leather necker slider. Just looking at the pictures, it "seems" like they wouldn't slip. I think it looks pretty cool too. But looking at our leaders, some like to wear the same slider that thier den does( I did up til becoming cubmaster, then switched to fleur de lis). Some wear the bolo tie and some use homemade sliders. Personally, I don't care what slider is worn as long as it's correct: ie: You don't wear a Tiger slide if you are a Bear DL conducting a Bear den meeting. Just wrong, although I'm not about to call in the UP or firing squad. But there is a small ( less that .01 percent) part of me that wonders if , as leaders and examples to the scout, if we shouldn't maintain a "pack uniformed" uniform? That make sense? If one wears a bolo, all wear a bolo. If one wears a leather slider, all wear it. Granted, I know that a slider wil not determine the quality of our program. I do not even plan on pursueing or mentioning this to my pack as I think it's pretty trivial in iteslf. It was just a curious thought. Does you den or troop or whatever have a specific leader uniform to be worn.

LOL! You mean we get told information incorrectly? LOL! I asked my DE about that 100 year ring. He in turn contacted ( whoever) at council who called whoever at National and ........anyways,I was told that it is an officail unifrom part and it stays on as long as you want. You do not have to take it off after the 2010 year is over. As far as patches and awards/medals/ knots being ego boosting...well, that depends on the individual. All of you know that too! See, I took BALOO and wear that patch proudly. No, not a class on a PhD level, but still , it was a class I took because I want to do what I can to have a great program for the boys in our pack. I am proud to have taken that class. Then I EARNED my trained patch. Again, I took the necessary classes to get it. I want to make sure that I at least meet the minimum standard. Not going to stop at that minimum, but it's a starting point. Now, the difference is why you took the class to get those patches: If you took the class in order to be able to use and impliment that info, and in doing so, create a better program...then wear all you want! If you ONLY took the class so you'd have a patch to show of just for the sake of having the patch...well, I'm not impressed. But the funny thing is..most (adults) who might wear the patch just for the bling factor, probably are not in the presence of the boys most of the tike anyway. Just saying, from my point of view....it take a good amount of time and shuffling your schedule , driving here or there, changing your plans , and alot of late suppers to take most of the training and attend meetings in my distric/council. There probably ought to be a knot just for doing all that! Just kidding!

Wew cleaned up our local park and did a newspaper/ aluminum can/plastic container drive. I think we ended up with more recyclables from the park!

You know what? I just had a complete change of opinion! "Generic Nondenominational Worship Services - yea or nay?" I say NAY! Matter of fact - I'm thinking that - unless all your scouts are of the same religion and denomination - you should just do away with the Scout's Own and/or any and all worship services. I do not think that excluding or looking down on others would be considered reverent. See, what just got me thinking ( since I posted my last post) was something that was in the newspapers a week or so ago. Here in NC, in New Hanover county to be exact, a buisnesses put up signs that said "...one Nation, indivisible...", and left it at that. Now you know the editorials and local pages in the newspapers just lit up like the opening bell at the NY stock exchange. Everybody thought it was meant as an attempt to remove God out of the pledge because somebody was atheist or such. But somebody stopped and took time to ask the sign's owner what he meant. Turns out he's a religious guy with a greater than oneself perspective: The guy said ( and I'm loosely qouting as I don't have the article in front of me) That he just emphasised what the original pledge ( written by a Baptist preacher mind you) said. "One nation, INDIVISIBLE..." It wasn't about adding God or removing God. It was about a nation united and standing up for itself and ALL it's people. People looking out for their fellow countrymen regardless of faith, lack of, or background. It was about being patriotic and proud of your country. That's all. Simple as that. Then sometime down the road....many years later, somebody added God to it. And while it was done with the greatest of great intentions.... in actuality, it has ben a source of division in this nation ever since it was added. Religious vs Atheist. This religion against that. Predjudiced and hate crimes to no end. All because of ones personal faith and convictions. You know..he had a good point you can't argue. Wether this country was founded on religion or lack of isn't the point. The only point is that this country was set up to allow EVERYBODY equal oppertunity to do as they chose as long as it didn't infringe on others. And I think he's right! I will not lose my faith or convictions just because somebody was to remove a single word. My faith isn't that fragile or simple. Matter of fact, people can laugh, mock and ridicule my beliefs. Doesn't matter to me as my beliefs will not change.. So, while not exactly the same thing as Scout's Own or worship services...I can see where it has the same effect as having that one word in the Pledge of Allegiance has. Instead of bring anybody together as was probabbly designed with the best of intentions..it has had the opposite effect. Especially here in the forums. Sure, no real physical fighting, but turmoil just the same. Instead of a S O or worship service there should be a 30 minute or 1 hour free time for all to do as they wish, if they wish to. Edited because my big fingers hit too many keys at a time! (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

SctDad...That is a freaking awesome idea! I'm stealing that one!

Oh, by the way...I do not mean any of what I said ina mean or condescending way. Again, it was just MY view on it. MINE! I know that each of you have your own personal beliefs. I COMPLETELY RESPECT that. I stand up and defend your right to have them. (I defend your right to have them even though I may not agree with them wether partially, or wholely. Thing is, nothing you do in the form of worship offends me, hurts me or lessens anything I believe. Short of physical stuff ( like abduction or sacrifices) will affect me. I will no more say your religion is wrong that your choice of vehisle make or favorite color, kind of movie, or music. It's your personal choice.

John, I disagree with this part, but for a different reason than BP. They way I see it is this: If you look at all of what God had done, will do, and can do at his discression...I cannot imagone that anything we do as humans can or will offend him. He did give us total and complete free will. Now, I do believe in God. Simple as that. But at teh same time, I think too many people take the bible in a sense that is too literal too mant times. Problem is, the people of the time spoke Armerian ( Armeric) ( I guess I spelled that right). THis was transleated from time to time and to different languages and cultures. Just look at modern language. Not every word can be translated still. In spanish, you have the leter "ch" which is not the same as simply putting the two letters together. Different sound and meaning totally. My point? Some things in the bible did not translate as simply as man wanted. Then look at the Sabbath. Ooops! It's on Saturday. But how did it become a Sunday thing? Compromise > Constantine made a deal: Saturday was market day and would be too hard to changeamong his people, so let's use Sunday instead. Kings used religion as a source of power for their reign over the people. Ole King Henry really wanted to divorce, but it was a big sin. What to do? Create your own religion...just like that. Except that this one allows divorce. So now you can divore your wife, behead her, and still hold the golden ticket of God's graces while still holding power over the people. Soas the bible says: Do unto others as you would have them do upon yourself. Better stated in modern language as: "Give people the same rights and respect that you think you deserve yourself" The bible also says we shouldn't judge, should turn the other cheek and that we should love one another. Yet, I cannot think of one organized religion that accomplishes that by saying "Either our God or hell!" Sure , you could believe that, but as soon as you preach it, you are against your own God's wishes right? Then we judge left and right. We even decide that committing this sin isn't so bad as that other sin, yet a sin is a sin. The bible did not rank them in severity. The bible didn't say : " Pick the best 7 out of ten." So anyways, my whole poiint is. we can not, nor do we have the right as mere human to say that god is upset with, or is offended by "X". In this case "X:"is sombody trying to create a worship where one did not exist before. No, it's not perfect, but it's not total apathy towards trying either. Now, again, I do not believe we as human have the right to say that God is okay with, subscribes to or approves of us prroclaiming what he trhinks. That goes against the whole "Judge not" thing. Besides.......whatever God originally said was wrote down by mankind. And we know that mankind ain't that reliable when it comes to unbiased facts.

Getting back to the original question: "Generic Nondenominational Worship Services - yea or nay?" I say, yea. But I'd be lying if I said you'd find me attending. Personally, I feel closer to God standing next to a lake watching and marveling in the natural beauty of the lake, the sky, trees, cloudes, and nature in itself. But is somebody gets a true benefit from a Scout's Own...then it's still worth it.

ScoutNut, Well,120 was at recharter. It has dropped some since then. Like I said, I was disappointed, but I think we are moving in the right direction. Okay, last year, my son started not attending so much in the end of his Wold year. Got a little burnt out, so we missed the summer session of our packs activities. Now, as i understand it, one of the days where NOBODY showed up was when they had a water day. A couple kiddie pools, a sprinkler and a slip and slide. Did I mention most members have in ground pools or those $150.00 temp above ground pools with the inflatable ring? Or that we are on the coast ( Hampstead , NC and Surf City, NC) Anyways, we are making progress: WE went from a pack where the handful of active people had to hold 2 or more positions to keep things going ....to a pack with a full committee in place. WE also went from having oversize dens with inadequate leadership to many dens with DL's and several ADL's per den. Now, I do not think by any means that I am going to turn things around in 1 year, but I have e-mailed and e mailed membersm made reminder calls, and keep in touch with my Committee and Dls constantly. Like I said, we are going from no attendance to 10 to a little over 20. Maybe it's fresh ideas and perspectives, maybe it's the influx of newer scouts and parents. Maybe the committe being ther has prevented some burn out amongst members. Next fun day is on a military ship. What scout doesn't like that kind of thing?

CONGRATS! I guess. Not sure what you do, or whatnot, but if you got offereed a job you'd love to have, then that's cool! Wish you the best while you enjoy Caribbean. Arrrgh, watch out for the pirates!

The USS North Carolina is haunted too! The guys from Ghost Hunters said so! Wouldn't that be a great pre bed time story? "OKay guys, lights out...and by the way, the ship is haunted. Sleep tight!"