Scoutfish

Now, even tough $10.00 ia an awesome bargin price ( if you ask me) I still think it's petty for council to want to make a profit, when they usually give no effort or offer any assistance other than allowing the distrcit to rent the camp. Yeah, covering expenses is expected, but wanting to make profit over just covering costs is crappy.

Well, it could have been worse,..... At least the reporter didn't try to tie it in to some devil worshiping Children of the Corn type of cult.

Eagledad, Are they upset about the bonuses or just upset they didn't get the same themselves. I mean, you are talking about Senators.

"but since I am active on calls and department training I stay reasonably up to date and don't have to retrain on what I already trained and have been doing for years...." The key phrase here is "I stay reasonably up to date and don't have to retrain " I was also a certified Level III firefighter, certified in Haz-Mat, Wildfire suppresion, I held my CEVO card ( Certified Emergency Vehicl OIperations Certified) . I was a Certified EMT-I, and certified by Fla Public Safety as a Level III water Rescue Tech. Thing was, in my state, to maintain your certifications, you had to do what we called "Continueing Education Training" or "in Squad Training" depending on which agency regulated it( dept of Insurance or Office Of Emergency Medical Services ( under Dept of Environment- Health and Human Services)). During all those years, how many times did they change the way you treat burn vitems, CPR, approaching house fires, ventilating a house, which way your guys entered a structure or what gear they wore? How many times did SOP's adjust or change? You can no loonger ride on the back of a fire truck, SCBA'a must now be possitive pressure at all times and no longer allow "don" switches or settings. Cpr Changes as much as the tide does. Used to, you would walk up to a house after riding on the back of a fire truck, break a window and just start spraying water. Not anymore. Now you do a thorough check, vetilate the roof, put a positive pressue on the house with afan, and push thefire out instead of futher in. BLEVEm, Backdraft, Fire Tetrahedron. All fairly new stuff in the long run. Change happens all the time. Thing is, you just didn't notice it because it came at you at a rate of what? ...3 hours a month instead of the entire 246 hour class. And the thing with BSA traing..well yeah, it sucks having to take new training that might replace old outdated training. It might suck to be at the top of your game instead of using "it always worked before" training. And besides, this is for JTE, not keeping yourself on the roster at recharter. As for the trained strip..what's all the ego about? Those who hate anything new since 1970 should be the same people who swear wearing that patch is just an ego trip anyways. Just like wearing a bunch of those dumb award knots! Point is: As leaders, everybody shouldmwant to keep on top of all new training. And I don't know about any of you...but I didn't have to be trained on how to set up my tent...I was smart enough to do it without being trained! ( that part was humor!)

noname........... WOW! Turn around and look in the mirror, then maybe crack open a scoutbook and re-read the 12 points. " But if you want to teach intolerance of others and society then good for you as well." So, were you talking about Autistics and other mental/ physical debilitations..or were you talking about your own attitude of intolerance? Maybe we should just do away with handicapped parking and DAv, and Special Olympics, or doctors priveldge parking. Maybe we should take the lights off ambulances and fire trucks and stopp pulling over for them. I mean, if my house catches on fire or my wife is having a stroke...why should we bother or inconveinence other people who are on the road too. WE don't want to be intolerant of their feelings or whatever they are doing right? Not sure if you ever thought about it, but you did know that things like Autism, Epilepsy, MS, Diabeaties, Asperengers, Athsma, and a whole lot of other things are not attitudes. They are also not somerthing that people want. I never met anybody with any kind of affliction that wanted that affliction. As ascouters, we are supposed to abide by and adhear to: A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. A Scout is TRUSTWORTHY. A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him. A Scout is LOYAL. A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation. A Scout is HELPFUL. A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward. A Scout is FRIENDLY. A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understnad others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own. A Scout is COURTEOUS. A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that good manners make it easier for people to get along together. A Scout is KIND. A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason. A Scout is OBEDIENT. A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them. A Scout is CHEERFUL. A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy. A Scout is THRIFTY. A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property. A Scout is BRAVE. A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him. A Scout is CLEAN. A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean. A Scout is REVERENT. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. "Krakatoa, I for one stand by what I say, rules/expectations ect. apply to everyone- including your son as well. For now our society is based on laws(or rules) and respect of those as well. " Yeah, Scouting has rules too, rules that we actually signed a paper saying we would follow. "Your attitude of "lack of symapathy" irks me to no end. Symapthy? Is that what you want? Sure we all feel so sorry, bla,bla ect. Is that sincere enough? " No, that's actually a pretty sorry, selfish, non-COURTEOUS, non-KIND, and non-FRIENDLY comment and attitude especially from anybody claiming a scout or scouter status. " However, if you want to teach your scouts to do your best in everything they do then good for you. " Yeah, good for him! Because that is exactly what it sounds like he is doing, starting with himself and showing it through his attitude. Maybe you should try to follow that example?

Well....as circumstances would have it, we just delayed - BUT DID NOT CANCEL our camping trip. Instead of starting tonight, we are delaying until tommorow morning. Now, here's te thing: I have camped in my tent during thunder, lightning and a very heavy downpour and stay toasty dry and comfortable. Matter of fact, when we went to camporee, I had just finished securing and tightening up the rainfly when my son says: "Daaaad, you always put it up, but nothing ever happens!" And I swear to you, not even 30 minutes later. the air was rumbling, the sky was flashing, the wind picked up and the bottom fell out for a good solid 30 minutes. I'm tralking about at least an inch and a half of rain. Yep, tent was dry as can be. Anyways, this wekend is our first pack camping of the year, and many scouts, as well as parents will be camping for the very firt time. The forecast calls for heavy thunderstorms and lightning, wind gusts up to 40 mph and a chance of hail. This will end around 8:30 pm or so, and a "normal" rain will continue until midnight. So, Some of us were going to set up our tents anyways, but figured it would suck doing nothing but hanging out in a tent due to the rain, so we delayed. I think canceling goes hand in hand with the age of the group, the experience of the group, and what the group was supposed to do during that time. In the exact same situation, I could very well see where an experienced troop or venture crew, or laders such as myself ( going without the pack) wouldn't bat an eye to this weather.

Our last camporee ( begining of Oct) was sponsored by our Coast District. Open to the whole council, on council property. We had around 750 attendees. Cost was also $10.00 This was for materials and equipment, covered the cost of the patches and staff food. This also covered all the paper uysed for sign ups, med forms, registration forms, maps, agendas, iteneraries( isn't thst just fancy for agendas? ) programs that were passed around and the advertising fliers. Thing is, even though council didn't run the event, the sponsoring district had to pay council for use of the facilities. THis did cover the cost of maintainance, electricity, the ems crew on standby, the ranger, and the trash cleanup ( camp dumpsters being dumped by local sanitation company). At the followup meeting, the Coastal District was crossing it's collective fingers and hoping they would break even. Now, council may have made a slight profit from us using the council camp, but if they did, I bet it wouldn't have been enough to buy a cup of coffee for every paid employee at the scout office. As far as patches go, no you don't have to have them, but you also don't have to take pictures either!

I'd say that even though it covers all programs, it sounds like it was meant more towards Cub Scouts as the training for a Tiger Den Leader, Cub Scout Den Leader and Webelos Den leader is different. THis would keep a DL from taking Tiger Training and using that to foat all the way to 2nd year Webelos Den Leader. And in that regard, I'd say it'sa great idea. Now, not having been a Boy Scout leader of any type, I assume that once you have the training, it pretty much stays the same for your relative position? And is it like Cub Scouts where the ASM will take the same training as the SM? If soi, the only time you would have to retrian is for YPT or if the program changs...in which case, taking the training again is not only a great idea, but should be looked forward to by all unit leaders to ensure the program in that unit isn't lacking, off or non-conforming to what the rest of BSA is doing.

Yeah some of the misunderstandings about rules spread faster than the idea people have thinking you have to burn the Stars and Stripes if the touch the ground. 2 deep leadership is a good one. Somebody will see a Den Leader with 12 scouts in his den room and start crying that there has to be 2 deep leadership. No, 2 deep is : " Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings. " Outings and trips. Not den meetings where there are 13 people total present. No, it's not a bad thing to have 1 or 2 or 3 more adults in that room, but it's not required. Scouts can only sleep in tents with their parents: No, they can sleep with another scout, 3 other scouts or as many as you can cram into a tent. They can't sleep in a tent with a any other adult who is not their parent. What adding requirements means: Neeed I say more on that one? Of course, we have to realize that there is a reason these rules exist. Just like the ones on a hairdryer that say :Do not use while taking shower"..the sad thing is, they have that tag because some idiot did try to use it while taking a shower, then sued the hair dryer manufacturer for their own stupidity.

I agree about over schedualing and over padding the boys. Nothing wrong with a den activity while camping, but I want them to camp for the sake of camping and just having fun instead of holding a weekend den meeting around a tent. Matter of fact, we are going all out goofy this weekend. We are havin a relay race where you start out using a stick to roll a hula hoop to the other sie ( about 30 foot) then two more of your team members will wheelbarrow race back, where the 4th team member will sack hop back to a team meber who will come back while carrying an egg ( using gold balls) in a spoon, then the last leg of the relat is a three legged race . After that, we will have a crab soccer tounament. At some point, we will be making wooden tomahawks ( with council's blessing) out of 3/4 inch plywood and throwing them at a styrofoam targets. I am also bring a couple nerf footbalss and 2 frisbees , and a baseball, bat and set of bases if they want to use them. Or they can just run around and see who can get the most sticks and leaves in their hair! But, I prefer seperate shower stalls myself. You wouldn't know it by looking at my 6'2" 240 pound( been on a diet ) frame and ever guess it, but I was that skinny beanpole kid growing up. Sharing a shower with anybody was a very dreadfull thing. Same goes for the overweight chunky kid or kid who is developing ahead/ behind schedule. We will eat three meals and have a campfire ceremony. If dens what to do something, that's up to them

They get kicked outty?

Lets make sure the TWO DIFFERENT sets of guidelines are not confused here: YPT covers : Separate accommodations. When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his or her own parent or guardian. Councils are strongly encouraged to have separate shower and latrine facilities for females. When separate facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers. Likewise, youth and adults must shower at different times. Respect of privacy. Adult leaders must respect the privacy of youth members in situations such as changing clothes and taking showers at camp, and intrude only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults must protect their own privacy in similar situations. G2SS covers: 10.Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youths of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youths. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be Youth Protectiontrained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or a sheet wall in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area. 11.When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his or her parent or guardian. 12.If separate shower and latrine facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers. Likewise, youth and adults must shower at different times. The buddy system should be used for latrines by having one person wait outside the entrance, or provide Occupied and Unoccupied signs and/or inside door latches. Adult leaders need to respect the privacy of youth members in situations where youth members are changing clothes or taking showers, and intrude only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults also need to protect their own privacy in similar situations. Granted, one falls as a sub catagory of the other, but at the same time, you are looking at two different things. Both though are laid out in a manner of "Do the best you can to adhere to" as BSA knos that ther will always be circumstances where the rules just don't fit. And having an entire room of males bunking together does prevent any one on one contact. As long as there are seperate shower facilities between males and females...and adult leaders from scouts( parents with their OWN children is outside YP policy control) But the thing is, the children are covered and safe as can be reasonably expected in these circumstances as well as all adults.

Okay, a day off from work and I am soooo bored, so I have to ask this question in jest: If a gay man gets married to another man, then has a sex change operation and becomes a woman..is he still gay?

So...since my son spend the majority of all his waking hours ar school...I wonder if he is going to turn into an educator? Or maybe he will turn into a coach? Since he eats 10 meals a week at school as 11 at home - I guess he has just as much chance as becoming a hair net wearer. Then again, he does watch tv everyday, so there is probably a 50/50 chance he wil turn into a myth buster or an animated cartoon. At home, he spends ALOT of time playinmg with the dogs, so I ssume I shouldn't be surprised when he starts licking himself, scratching at the door when he wants to go outside or when he starts pooping in the yard? I have often thought it might be possible that I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body. That could rub off on my son too?

Bart, That's just it, I do not want a 5 star meal. It's camping. Family Pack camping to be exact. The kids will eat hot dogs, hamburgers, chicken nuggets, cookies, PB&J , donuts, chicken noodle soup....anything simple. Its the adults who want 5 star meal with 0 star effort. 5year, "When we do a cold breakfast most people just grab and leave and eat on the way and the leaders are left doing all the clean up." WE clean up our "kitchen" the night before. We do it after dinner but before campfire while everybody's digesting their food. Come morning time, the only cleanup will be the leftover breakfast items and that last bag of trash. After that, the only cleanup is everybody's own tents and such.

That's where the council could have some of it's less buy paid staff collect the orders of the entire council a week before they have to make their own order, and do a councilwide total of each flavor of popcorn they need. Then order that way. If 6 or 7 units within a district can work it out...great, if not, they can work it out council wide. My issue is this: We run around and do all the leg work, pitching, selling, then go back and deliver it all. The council orders basd on what we order, but saying we have to buy an entire case tells me that council isn't even bothering to check the counts or do a little math on their own.They are just going to a higher number. Spelled $$$$$$$$ Yeah, it is to raise money for the council, but that doesn't mean units should go into the hole to do this.

"Now, if a lad comes to a SM Conference or a BOR and clearly hasn't done what was required for a badge, the boy also has an obligation of honor, eh? His obligation is to be honest about where his MB experience fell short, and to complete all da learning requirements of the badge before he wears it on his uniform. " Assuming the boy knows in the first place. Afterall, isn't that why he has a MB counselor? Isn't the boyu supposed to truct that counselor in wjhat he tells the boy and what guidance he gives? Could it be possible that the boy has done everything correct as far as he knows? He can't be expected to already know..other wise, he wouldn't have needed the badge to begin with.

" I haven't kept track of specifics and don't have any documentation of the stuff I've done, but I don't know how much it matters." It matters! WEll, it maters in most councils. But there should still be records of what you did on the council level and should be some records for district level too. Any training for your position should be kept on file by council. YPT,This is Scouting and/or Leaders Essentials, Leader specific, BALOO , and any and all of the SSD, SA, Weather, should also be in council records or online if you took it that way. Check with your DE or round table coordinator about attendance. At our RT's, we have a sign in sheet that: (1) Lets them know specifically who showed up (2) Which units may be missing out on alot of info and help from the district /council. If you have not set up a profile on Scouting.org, do so as soon as possible. Part of your profile will be tieing in your scout id number to your name. You can then actually search your training through "training validation" and it will pull up any (National) records that exist for your training, including dates

Without having ever read anything about the cooking MB, I can point out alot wrong with the line of thought in the scenerio: A Cooking MB is about learning to cook and plan meals right? If the scout doesn't like to cook, that doesn't mean he doesn't know how. Just like I don't like being the one to plan the menu and oversee the purchasing of food and supplies before campingt. I don't like it, but I do it well. Now, I do remember what out last menu was 6 months ago, but I don't remeber exactly how much of each thing we purchased of the date we purchased it or cooked it. But we did plan, we did purchae, we did cook it. I have cooked something at every campout since my son joins cub scouts, but I couldn't tell you what I cooked every single time. My point is, the SM used a line of questioning that really didn't bring any info as to wether the scout learned anything or did anything. It should have been like this: For a First Class candidate, "So did you enjoy cooking for your patrol?" Scout: "I was okay, but not the most enjoyable thing I did." BOR: "Well, did you help plan or did you plan the menu?" Scout: "Yes. " BOR: "What campout did you cook on?" Scout: "Maybe last year sometime." BOR: But you did cook at campouts?" Scout: "Yes, I cook at more than one, but it's been a while and we camp often, so I do not remember the exact campouts." BOR: "Can you tell us some of the other times you've cooked for your patrol?" Scout: "I don't really like to cook." BOR: "It sounds like that, even though you completed this requirement, you found out it's not something you enjoy.. Can you tell us why it is still to your benefitfor having worked on this MB ?" Point being, the scout may have hated this MB, but does not mean he didn't learn, complete and satisfy the requirementsof the cooking MB.

What was that old saying? : The grass that is greener is greener because of all the poop!" "In the past we've had our own CO - "Parents of such-and-such school"; I'm not sure why we stopped doing that and went with another organization." Probably because issues and problems came up there too. Thing is, with a CO that tied to an existing group, you usually have some sort of long term stability. The COR usually is a long term position by a person who has been in the CO many years, or will be there many years. Even if the COR is not overly active, you have the advantage that he is not biased or as involved as the two sides of whatebver issue you have. So you start a new CO and call it" "CO to Pack X" Who is going to be the COR? Who do you want to put in that position that you trust having the final say during any discussions or arguements? How long will that person be active as COR? AS long as their kid is in it? Longer, or less? Since this is going to be a "freinds of" type CO, then the COR will most likely be the parent of at least one boy, if not 2 oer 3 boys. What if the issue is between a slacker leader in Den 1 , and 2 o3 other dens.. What if the COR's son is in Den 1 ? Is he able to look beyond his son and son's den leader without any bias? And if he does...is everybody going to be able to follow the decidion or automatically think it's biased towards his son's DL( even if it isn't)? Where will the CO be in 5 yeras? I ask because at that point, even a current Tiger Scouts volunteer mom or dad will be out of the pack by then. Just alot to think about.

We tell everybody that the deadline is the deadline....no exceptions. Of course, the deadline we give is about 4 days to a wek before the real deadline. But, I'll say this...if this is the biggest problem you have with popcorn, then you are doing great! We "used" to have other bigger issues with popcorn. Families sellling and collecting money, but not turning it into the pack which decided to order it anyways. Yeah, that bit us big . But that was before the current leadership and committee were running things. Our biggest potential problem is ordering from Trail's End. When you sell 13 boxes of something that comes in cases of 12, you still have to buy a whole case. Our council will not help pay for those 11 boxes of popcorn that came in that case, but will hold out their hand to get their share of the profits of trhose 11 cases being bought from Trail's End. As it was yesterday morning, we were looking at a $400.00 loss dues to split and partial orders. I called and e mailed all the packs in my district and worked things out. Council just sent out a memo to the effect of: "When you oreder, you are ordering by the case. You will be responcible for that case. We get our share wether you sell or not!" So basically, we do all the work, do all the selling, and council gets a profit no matter what. Depending on how much you sell, it might be cheaper to cut a check to council and just not sell anything!

I think it's tacky to submit yourself for the award if you only did your job to get the award. But at the same time, if earning the award means you have to complete a pre set, distinct amount of requiremenmts in a particular way...and you do complete them..then it's all on the up and up. That knot is about the closest thin we can recieve as a "pay raise" in this job. And when it comes to working ( for an actual check) , I am not above asking for what I think I deserve, especially if I know I do the work to earn that raise. But again, I think it depends on why. If take a position just for the sake of getting the knot, tacky isn't descriptive enough.

I'll agree with both of you: Executives were only in a CYA mode and didn't tale advantage of many oppertunities to do the right thing....... AND....... Lawyers are 99.0 % concerned only with collecting a fee.... BUT....... They are doing what they are supposed to do even if their motive is more about CA$H that justice. The questions the lawyers ask are indeed legit even if the reason they ask isn't. In the ned, lawyers who are now chasing BSA wouldn't have to if BSA did the right thing to begin with. Now, those who jump on the bandwagon and hire lawyers for trumped up cases and false accusations just so they can get a $$$ settlement? They are their own issue.

It wouldn't matter if marijuanna was legal or not, this boy was 13. Cigarettes are legal, but not for this kid. Beer is legal as well as wine and liquor. But not for this boy because he was only 13.

BSA could come out loking good, if not spectacular. BSA could very well have a few people do just what shortridge says: Compare convited to files and make a nice neat package to give to whatever unit of authority handles that kind of thing wether FBI, SBI, local SVU , etc.. Then hire a PR firm to come up with the scripty or theme of a national broadcast, or on line broadcast or even a 20/20 interview where BSA can say somethiung along the lines of: "Just as you, the everydy people, keep mental notes of everybody you know, we too kept notes of our leaders. Sometimes people do something - that in itself - is nothing to raise an eyebrow to, but if it's a repeated cycle, then you have a history to make a better judgement about. We do it with almost everybody we know. You are not sure about the guy at the store, the garage, the post office. You keep mental tabs on him. BSA kept written tabs. Of course, over time as we get to know these people better, we realize our "tabs" were wrong sometimes, and right others. So, just because you kept tabs on somebody does not mean ther were actually doing anything wrong or guilty. Likewise, sometimes people have done atrociius things, and you had no clue. You might think trhat gal or guy might stael candy from a coffee table, but you'd never expect them to rob a bank." So, BSA has a black eye, but they could keep it to a black eye if they did it right Like shortridge said: give copies of any info of convicted people to the authorities, and the ones who did nothing can be trashed or destryed if it turns out all the suspicions were unfounded. And it could be announced that they were unfounded and destryed as to not tarnish any innocent person's reputation.