Scoutfish

Yah know...about 10 years ago, my wife, myself, and another couple wenmt to a seafood restaurant. It was called Wahoo Willies. It was not your average grill that you would find on a fishing pier. So we ordered some meals and one of the common sides was blackened beans. I as well as my wife got seasoned rice ( kinda like Zatarann's) and I had baked marinated grouper and my wife had ...well, I don't remember. So after we left the restaurant, my wife and her friend commented about how awful the food was. TERRIBLE! YUCCKY POO! They would tell all their friends not to eat there. Me? I thought it was pretty good. Of course, I knew what blackened beans tasted like, I knew what the seasoned rice was going to be, and the grouper was cooked exactly the way baked and marinated grouper should. Thing is, if you like that style of food, you would have liked it. If you don't like that style of food, you won't. Then sometimes, you have a restaurant that could screw up a pot of boiled water. Why should WB ( or anything else for that matter) be any different?

Yah know...about 10 years ago, my wife, myself, and another couple wenmt to a seafood restaurant. It was called Wahoo Willies. It was not your average grill that you would find on a fishing pier. So we ordered some meals and one of the common sides was blackened beans. I as well as my wife got seasoned rice ( kinda like Zatarann's) and I had baked marinated grouper and my wife had ...well, I don't remember. So after we left the restaurant, my wife and her friend commented about how awful the food was. TERRIBLE! YUCCKY POO! They would tell all their friends not to eat there. Me? I thought it was pretty good. Of course, I knew what blackened beans tasted like, I knew what the seasoned rice was going to be, and the grouper was cooked exactly the way baked and marinated grouper should. Thing is, if you like that style of food, you would have liked it. If you don't like that style of food, you won't. Then sometimes, you have a restaurant that could screw up a pot of boiled water. Why should WB ( or anything else for that matter) be any different?

Yah know...about 10 years ago, my wife, myself, and another couple wenmt to a seafood restaurant. It was called Wahoo Willies. It was not your average grill that you would find on a fishing pier. So we ordered some meals and one of the common sides was blackened beans. I as well as my wife got seasoned rice ( kinda like Zatarann's) and I had baked marinated grouper and my wife had ...well, I don't remember. So after we left the restaurant, my wife and her friend commented about how awful the food was. TERRIBLE! YUCCKY POO! They would tell all their friends not to eat there. Me? I thought it was pretty good. Of course, I knew what blackened beans tasted like, I knew what the seasoned rice was going to be, and the grouper was cooked exactly the way baked and marinated grouper should. Thing is, if you like that style of food, you would have liked it. If you don't like that style of food, you won't. Then sometimes, you have a restaurant that could screw up a pot of boiled water. Why should WB ( or anything else for that matter) be any different?

I've read a comment here and vthere about using hammocks. And truth be told, the one thing I hate about camping is the tent. Well..mors e speciffically, the squatting down to crawl in and out, and the getting down on the groud to get into my sl;eeping bag and getting back up again in the morning or the 4 times during the night to pee that only happens in cool wether when you are nice and snug in your bag! My problem is my back will start aching and is just waiting for me to do the wrong thing so it can go out at work Monday morning. I have an air matrress to help with cushion, and it does raise my "bed" 6 inches, but I am still dropping and crawling into my tent and crawling on the ground to my bag. So the idea of a hammock that is at least waist high off the ground is music to my ears. So, my questions are: Do yopu have a rainfly over it or just veiw the sky ( when not raining of course)? Do you use mosquito neting or just slather yourself with bug spray? Do ants and other bugs do the congo down the ropes/webbing that connects to the tree? Do you have to use extra padding between you and the hammock to retain heat in the winter/ coller weather? Is a rainfly/tarp sufficient when it really rains or just a sprinkle? And considering YP...where do you get dressed or change clothes?

Yeah Beavah, But if you figure I have been paying wage taxes since I was 14 years old, not to mention any other tax through work, consumption, property bought, services, etc.. Since I have been payinmg county, state and federal taxes of real property as well as house, vehicles, boats, since I was 18 and that my son wasn't born until I was 30. And after he turns 18 he will be slf supporting ( I hope) - but I will continue to pay taxes until I die, and then some for dieing..then...... NO!!!! I am not paying a fraction, I am paying just as much as you or anybody else. And the two of us are both paying a ton for those who do not pay anything towards their share due to their "Undocumented " status.

"And in return da parents get free day care for 12 years allowing 'em to work during the day and the kids get a free education" What state do you live in Beavah? I might move there because in NC, there isn't any free education. I pay my share by way of taxes, schol bonds( different taxes) school fees and supply fees - then have to go out and still buy a long list of supplies as required by each teacher, and then more required by the school( so why am I paying a supply fee?) . Then I pay more taxes to fund those who do not pay anything, as well as fund lunches for those who cannot pay( I am okay with this one - I do not want any kid to go hungry at all). I also patronize 3 different event/festivals that directly contribute to the 3 loocal schools. I wish it was free childcare and I wish that education was free too, but that is not even slightly truye. Teachers are getting paycuts and getting laid off while superintendants are getting 4,5 and sometimes 6 figure raises and bonuses, before they do something to get themselves fired and then recieve a plush severance package regardless of why they quit or were fired. I am talking about $400,000.00 severance packages. Where do you suppose that comes from? Definantly not free by any means!

Our pack didn't used to use them But I discussed it last year with all my leaders before we came back from summer break. In the time after we start up - but before roundup - the dens made thier den flags. THis year, as soon as all the new scouts get settled in, we are going to use them during our flag ceremonies. What we are going to do at pack meetings is have all the boys go to a meeting point while all the parents go ahead and sit in the pack assembly area. Then our Tiger Den will come in with their den flag and sit in their area. Then the Wolves, then the Bears, Then the Webelos. After that, a scout will come in and ask everybody to rise and the color gfuard will enter with our pack flag and The American Flag. The color guard will be made up of one scout from each den. We will see how it turns out.

Baden, You are right, If you try long and hard enough you can rationalize almost anything to fit your viewpoint, even though it runs contrary to the conventional truth. Trouble is, how do you know that you are not the one who rationalized it to be dishonest? If a school say: "Do 24 hours of community service" and they don't specify or restrict it...then basically, the school is saying: "We don't care who it's for or what you do as long as it is community service." So when the scout performs community service for his church, the school regognizes it for what it was...24 hours of community service. The scout might write down that same service for his troop to, because it doesn't say you can claim that service..it just says that you couldn't use that same amount of service for two different awards or achievements, ranks, etc... Let's say for example that a boy scout is hanging out at a river, sees a kid fal in the river and starts drowning. He jumpos in, pulls the kid out and performs CPR. WEll, the local school may recognize him for it, so does that mean that the troop, BSA, local town council, ARC, and whoever else hands out awards for that kinda thing must turn around and ignore the kid? Does that mean as far as BSA is concerned..that scout did nothing at all? How about scouting for food? If the scout does this as part of community service, then you don't keep track of the hours for GTFA? Now, if the scout performs 12 hours of service this year, and tries to clain 12 hours for his next rank, then a couple to 5 months later tries to use that same 12 hours for his next rank...then yes, that is double dipping. It seems to me people have confused what is double dipping. Think back to Webelos scouts. You cannot use an activity to earn your Outdoorsman pin, and then count that same activity for earning the World conservation Award. Because the WCA requires you to do an activity on it's own standing. 12 hours ( or however many you want to use here) is 12 hours. If 3 people know you have 12 hours, it doesn't mean they only see 4 hours each. Thay all know you worked 12 hours.

Basement, You ever look at some of these comic book characters and wonder who the hell they are? I remember sitting in my uncle s store in Cape Hatteras reading $0.25 cent comic books and $0.75 double issue horror comics while sitting net to his wood burning stove. Yeah, way back in the day. Lee Robinson's General Store in Hatteras Village at the south end of Cape Hatteras. Had a wood burning stove in the center of the store and a couple wooden rocking chairs. I haven't bought a comic since then. I think I kept up with Mad Magazine until 1989 or 1990, but never did read the comics again.

During my first year of being a CubScout, I would be mu biggest critic and I would constantly overthink everything I planned or did. I wondered if I was doing a good enough job. I wondered if the scouts liked me as a CubMaster. I wondered if they were having fun with me as the CubMaster. I wonderd if they really enjoying the program. I wondered if I was doing it right. So, over time, I realized I was doing a pretty good job since scouts would come up to me for a high five or handshake whenever they would see me here or there. "Hi Mr.Fisher! Hey CubMaster Fisher!, Hi Mr. Mark!" Yeah. I realized I wasn't causing the world to end. So, today. while working a hotdog stand for our CO at the CO's fall festival..several Boy Scouts that I had not seen since crossover and a few I haven't sen since I worked with them as a first aid MBC .....walk up and shake my hand (scout style) and give me the Boy Scout salute. Then they start talking about this and that and what they have done advancement wise, what they have learned, what projects they have participated in, etc.... Then as they are about to walk away, one turns around and says: "Remember this?" and gives me a high five. Yeah, that was awesome!

Our CO held it's annual fall festival/fundraiser/ yard sale/ pumpkin patch today. Well, even thought it wasn't the fist time I told my son we would be helping out. I reminded him again last night. "WHAT? Why do we have to help out?" I have no idea where this came from. Even though I'd never mistake him for Ghandi or a poster child for Good Deeds Daily..I didn't quite expect this. Nah, he wasn't a jerk about it or even whineing, I think he just had plans (in his head) about sleeping til noon or something like that. Anyways, we get to our "station" at 9 am. We were selling hotdogs, Italian sausages ( with pepper and onions!), coffee and hot chocolate on the CO's behalf to support soccer scholarships for the church's Upward Soccar League. So I had told my son that I just wanted him to help out for at least 1 hour. WEll, 5 and a half hours later, we sell out of hot dogs and the Italian sausages were long gone. So I tell my son that we are done, and he says: "Already? I was having fun!" So he helped me clean up, and we head out. On the way home, he says that he wished we had more dogs and sausages so we could keep selling. He actually liked and enjoyed helping out. So, I guess at his age, you have to drag them out to help out, but have to drag them home afterward. I'm thinking this is a sign of being an "almost teenager" .

SP, I think you are combining two different people's comments: Basement is saying he doesn't need the headache from a bunch of "professionals" who turn down any unit plans, who say they are going to cancel any unit activities, and tell him to put his hand down at RT because they have no intentions of answering his questions.....yet call him 12 times a day when it comnes to wanting to do a FOS presentation. They have no concern for a unit but hold their hand out for every cent they can get from the unit. Abel saw the 35 troops die because they had no "professionals" in place in any of the necessary positions to help a troop, but had plenty of people who also collect money. All unit assistance was funnled - or should I say "kept in check" by the district/council fundraising coordinator. So 35 troops in Abel's council have dies from lack of any help, yet everyone in a "profesional" position got bonuses galore. 35 troops fold and wither away, yet council says numbers are increasing? No, this isn't a unit being overwhelmed. This is a Ponzi scheme disguised as a BSA council and district. Those "professionals" forgot who works for who and why they are there. All they see is a source of income. "Give me your money or get out of my way , because there are others with money to give me. My grandaddy had a name for that: Gold diggers!

Unless your council is really strict on things..you do not need to fill out a tour permit..which is actually a tour plan nowdays....Just go.. At the very worst, you might want to print out some parent permision slips for each scout, but that's it. What you are doing is no more different than a summertime fun activity or a den go see it. And tell her she can stay home sine the program is for and about the boys....not her. Yeah, YOU decide, not her.

I think it depends on what you are using the hours for. If scouting were to say you must have 4 housr of community service, does it mean 4 hours of "scouting only" community service" If the school says 4 hours of service, does it imply that they arwe school hours and not anybody elses? I mean, 4 hours is four hours. Neither group is saying that the hours are used up, and it doesn't benefit the community if it wasn't in our name. For example : Basement son is going to perform 4 hours service at the food bank. It is 4 hours no matter hopw you look at it. I can see countiung it at school, at scouts, at church and for personal counting ( for whatever reason) Now, wherte I consider it double dipping is if that 4 hours of services is counted this month , and then that same service is counted next month for a differet requirement in the same organazation, wether scouting, church, school, etc... Back when I was on the fire dept, we had a training officer who was creative. We were required to have a minimum of 36 hours a year in ongoing training . Well, I would take the trucks and drive them for about 20 minutes every Saturday just to keep the oil circulating and stave off any flat spots in the tires. I'd then dump the tanks and put fresh water in them ( mostly to run it through the plumbing and pump to wsh away sediment and trash). Well, every time I took a truck out, I'd call dispatch and call in "10 - 7" meaning the truck was considered out of service. After I topped off the fuel, and filled the water tank back up, I'd call dispatch and call the truck "10-8" or back in service. This took about an hour tops for each truck Well, our training officer, who I mentioned is very creative wouyld write up a whole sheet detailing that I participated in 1 hours of vehicle training as well as 1 hour in radio communications, pump operations, maintainance, hoses and nozzels ( because I would flush them too) and dump operations. That was not only double dipping, but sextantular (?) dipping. Mt training officer would creat 6 hours of training out of one hour of actually doing something. Considering I did this to 4 or 5 truck - depending on who else was around - and I have 24 to 30 hours of training written up from 4 to 5 hours of actually doing something. That is wrong. That is lying and that is cheating the system. But, If I take myu son and we go to a food bank, and help unload and organize food ( scouting for food) and we are there for 4 hours, then it is for hours wether scouting is the only one who recognizes it or if the community, the school, the church, Goot Turn for America, or even the govenor recognizes it. That hour is still one hour. I see it like this: If somebody sees me picking up a piece of trash off the ground, I cannot say that other people can not see it because the first one did. If one parent thanks me after a pack meeting for doing a great job, I will not refuse to be thanked by others because that meeting time had already been recognized. But I will not write down that I have 1 hour for pack meeting, 1 hour for parent scout interaction, 1 hours of a pack get together, 1 hour of leadership, 1 hour etc...

I think the biggest thing here is this: It is a matter of pricipal. And I do not mean just mine, or just any one poster's principals. I think it is the principal of the rule. BSA has a rule that discriminates. Not saying the rule itself is a good one or a bad one. But looking at it objectively, and for what it is without personal feelings...it is a discriminatory rule. Justified or not..it is what it is. NOw suppose that the powers that have the power to make changed get together Moday night and decide to drop that rule. Does anybody think that there will be a sudden flood of adult leader applications filled out by gay adults wanting to be leaders? Does National or any one council expect a stack of applications filled out with pink glitter pens? Maybe a leader here or there , but not a whole bunch. Looking at homosexuals, you can';t just lump everybody into one set lifestyle. Basically, you can't just think all of them as flamboyant. Just like with heterosexuals, there are some who have to wear specific high fashions clothes at any moment and never wear the same outfit twice. You kn ow what I mean..tyhe mom who shows up at camp in a pants suit, high heels and $500.00 worth of jewelry on het. The dad who gos camping in his penny loafers and his $800.00 gold watch and matching gold chain. Then you have the blue jeans and sweat shirt guys and gals. You have the spandex princess moms who are practically 1 step away from b eing naked. Then you have the Elmer Fudd styled people who probably should be hanging out with Uncle Ted (Nuggent) instead of carving punjia stick at scout camp. The you have the "normal " scouters. I immagine that if you have a gay guy who is pretty normal, you'd never even know it....same for a lesbian. They could already be in your unit and just never let on. Big deal if you have no idea right? Cause it means they conduct themselves just like you and I without any innapropriat behavior. Okay, I got sidetracked in my own post ( imagine that! ) Anyways, I think the objection to the rule is more about principal that actual hordes of people wanting to join. I see it no different than saying women can't join because they are too sissy , Jews can't join because they would turn scouting into a money making scheme or that people with blonde hair can't join because they can't find the light switch in a tent. It's all based on assumptions that all gays are going to run around in heels, feather boas and high heels. But if BSA was to allow gays to be leaders, I do not think there would be a noticable jump in aplications. It's just that they don't like the ruling in principal. The best example I can think of is from years ago. Way, way back in 1984, our town was getting cable tv service for the very first time. The town worked up some kind of charter contract with the cable company, and one of the provisions was that "The Playboy Channel" would not be offered. WEll, most townsfolk didn't mind at all. But a few people had an issue with it. They stood up at metings and asked the town what right they had to make that decision for us. What people did in their own homes was their own business. One of the people who protested this ruling was my dad. Also the preacher of the local Bapsist chucrh. Neither of them gave a flip aboiut the Playboy channel, but didn't l;ike the town making the decision on principle. The town recanted, Playboy was allowed, abd according to statistics later on down the road...one family signed up for about 3 months and then dropped it. So, it wasn't that the town went to seed or that a bunch of pervs satyed home all day getting their jollies..it was the principal of the sitauation. Again, I am not condoning BSA's stance, nor am I bashing it. I just think most gays are upset due to the principal of vthe rule than they are about not being leaders...because the ones who are not flamboyant or feminine acting are probably already scouters and we just don't know it.

Basement, I am not complaining at all,I am just grateful of your generousity. Still, let me know what the shipping or cost is. I haven't told my son yet, but I had, anmd if he was going to complain about somebody's generousity...I'd tell him to try eating off the dirt or using leaves or bark!

Yeah, you are right, I guess I was reading your post as if they were second year Webelos. Turns out that it doesn't actually say either way, so I guess I was just assuming since my son is a second year Webelos.

Like I said..I understand what you feel and why. My biggest point was that as a current ADL, he may may be honoring his commitment to complete the year as a ADL instead up just quiting on the spot and leaving you looking for another ADL. He may be planning on going to pack 2 or troop 2 as soon as the boys complete the year or cross over, but doesn't want to leave you hig and dry in the mean time. As for the Scout Oath and Law... They do have to memorize it: In the Webelos Handbook- page 63, Arrow of Light requirements, #2 " Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the scout Oath or Promise andthe 12 points of the Scout Law. Tell how you have practiced them in your everyday life. "

If you ever end up driving down the southern east cost of NC, look me up. I couldn't tell the difference between a fine cigar and a fine bunch of pine needles, but bthere are several tobbacconist shops that are considered to be of the highest quality in my area.

I totally get what you are saying, and I totally agree with it. If being a member/ leader(?) of Pack 2 is interfearing with the duties of being a Webelos ADL of Pack 1. Being part of Troop 2 is a different story all together. Packs and Troops are two different tings entirely and as Cub Scout leaders, it is our job to have our future scouts look at ALL troops to find the best fit even though it may not benefit our own CO's troop. Yeah, you want them to join your own troop, but the scouts best interest is to find the best troop, not just the one your CO charters. Now, I can see another possibilitry here. The ADL may want to finish their leader obligation to Pack 1 by staying a leader until the Webelos finish the year or cross out. I get that too. Everybody has their own line even if it does not match our version of it. Case in point, we had a leader and his committee wife leave us and start up another pack. We hated to see him go, but almost broke out in song when she left. (Ding dong, the witch is gone! ) So, they left because she left. She left because she found out that she could not be the emporer supreme of teh pack and that everybody else wasn't going to bend over backwaards and kiss her back side. But, when they started teh new pack for their own reasons..it also immensely helped the community for scouting reasons. It created a pack that was chartered 12 miles closer than any other pack ever was. This pack is on the beach island ..which makes a HUGE difference if you ever had to del with summer traffic and draw bridges that open every hour on the hour. If it wasn't for the fact that I was already a CM of my pack, on the district committee and District camp promotions for Cub Scouts as well as a troop MBC..I would offer to help that new pack by being a DL or ADL. At first,a few members of of our leadership and committee couldn't understand why i would go help "the enemy" out..But when I explained that it wasn't about "us or them" but instead, it was about the scouts and helping a new pack out with experience leadership and pack experience...everybody understood it completely. And that is what it is about ( to me at least) I have no desire to work with her again...although I enjoy working with her husband. But I really enjoy working with kids. I want to see that pack excell for the sake ofb the kids. I want those kids to have a blast and enjoy scouting as much as they can. But as I said..I have just enough under my belt right now. I do not need any more.

" the studies would indicate that at best the risk of a homosexual molesting pubertal and post-pubertal youth is the same as that of the general population and at worse they are 3 times more likely to molest. The problem is that the uncertainties do not allow one enough certainty to draw firm conclusions. " I think what Moose is saying is this: The studies do not draw any firm conclusions either way, yet you conclusively stick to the worst case scenerios without giving credit to the best case scenerio because the best case does not fit your agenda. The studies are not accurate enough to be reliable, but lets use them anyways to prove our point!

I say animals because they cannot verbally speak for themselves. I say underage / children/ non adults because they are not mature enough to make that decidion. "Heh, heh! The laws will change, under the same assault as laws limiting marriage to heterosexuals. " Really? The right of adults to be in contol of their own lives is the same as beastiality or (as defined as ) stauatory rape? So two 35 year old men or women are to be considered of the same mentality and ability as immature youth or animals? So they can vote, get jobs, pay taxes, work, buy houses, cars, land, run businesses , own businesses, contribute to society,,but when it comes to equality under the law..they are suddenly no btter than animals or immature children? Used to be a time when women couldn't vote and blacks had no rights...but those laws changed to. You saying that maybe we should go back and change those laws?

Fred, I am not uncomfortable at all. But lets look at your exampoles: - start ----- end - 2011-10-17 - current - Tough questions (spun from the 2011-10-13 one) - 2011-10-13 - 2011-10-20 - When will National realize this *IS* affecting membership which political side is this about? ZRepublican, democrreatic, or independant? Looks more like a religious or personal belief to me. - 2011-10-12 - 2011-10-13 - Florida School Board Rejects Grant ... Political action based off of peoples personal beliefs. - .... - ... - (there are a few in here too, I just can't find them quickly) - 2011-09-27 - 2011-09-30 - Which "lifestyles" are acceptable Not political - 2011-08-30 - 2011-09-28 - Where does BSA tell us homosexuals are not allowed? Actually, a scientific question . Wants specific info, not opoinions or political debate..just hard documented proof. - 2011-08-25 - 2011-09-01 - Potomac Falls woman removed from sons Boy Scout troop True story, details brought out and sides taken based on personal values and beliefs. - 2011-08-13 - 2011-08-18 - So a scout tells you ... I'd call this ethics and religion. Thing is, politics don't have very much to do with most of these threads other than that the posters will stick to their own opinions and not be swayed. But isn't that also strong ethics or strong faith? Just because two diferent sides stick to their own belkiefs does not make it political. And since they are personal beliefs..most peole are going to stick with them. That's not politics, that's sticking to your values wether our values are the same or different. Arguements? Absolutely, politics? Nah. There isn't much of a "If they say "A" I will say "B" attitude, and there definantly isn't any of the "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" agrements going on.

Our DE is a great guy, but there is one thing I do not like about the way he works. And it is during round ups. He lets us know well ahead of time when roundups are. He wants to have at least 1, if not more reps from every unit. He would also like to see scouts from each unit in uniform for the new prospects to see., Give a great speech too. But here is where I have the issue: I had a mom who had another son who was at football practice, She knew her son was going to join, but didn't have time for the show She knew she was going to join our pack too. So I tyold her to just take an application with her and bring it, along with the money, to her first meeting with us. The DE then tells me that I should have collected the money right then in case she changed her miond. That way we would still have the money wether her son ever came or not. Yeah, that didn't sit well with me. My pack has at least 15 people each year who come to sign ups and grab a application, but wait til the next meeting to join. They always pay too. SOmetimes I have parents who swing by sign up on the way home from work who already know their kid will join. Our DE is a great guy, and will help us any way he can. but I know his #1 job is to build up numbers and collect money. That is his job.

I am going to be taking Wb as soon as my council offeres it again, Supposed to be in the fall of 2012, but our council "go to for all things accurate" woman said it's possible that they may offer one in the spring. Anyways, I am looking forward to it as well. I have heard nothing but great remarks from those who have taken it so far. But I started thinking about somethinmg when I first read some of the replies in this thread and tyhe other one" "WB- is it worth it" or whatever it was called. Anyways, it seem sthat Most ( not all) of the people who took WB-21C that didn't like it had also taken WB before that. So, am am thinking about how last week, I watched a re-make of theb Ammityville Horror. I read the book way back when I was a kid, and it scared the bejeezus out of me..whixh made it great! I also watche John Carpenter's "The Thing" at 3 am while half aslep. That also scared me which also made it a great movie! So watching the re-make of The AmmityVile Horror, I was so disapointed. In the original movie, the closest you ever came to seeing anythiung was a set of glowing eyes in a window, and a "sorta" face burned into the fireplace brick. But your imagination really got to you. In the re-make, the spoecial effects were outstanding. Graphic, to te point and you didn't have to imagine anything at all. They even added alot of cool stuff about the history of the house. But it sucked compared to the fist movie. The movie sucked compared to te book ( isn't that always the case?) So, I do plan on watching the new version of "The Thing" as soon as it comes out on video. But I also realize it will not be as good as the first one. Why? Because it is not the first one! I will bet the camera shots are better, the picture is cleaners and more clear, No doubt the special effects will be 1,000 times better and CGI will make the impossible - posible. But it's not the first one I saw. That make sense to anybody? If you are taking WoodBadge for the very first time, you do not have anything to compare it to. But if you took it way back when...wel, te new version just isn't the old one. It might be better, it might be cleaner, it might be clearer....but it's not the old one. NOw, not having taken WB..I also woder trhis: since it is leaders who are taking it and not all scouts in general...isn't safe to say that it should be more of a leadership clas tan a scout craft class? I mean, isn't scout craft something trhat should be learned in the woods, or while camping , or during troop activities? Isn't that something that is taught at a different place? Okay, the best example I can think of is this: as a Firefighter, I was also an certified instructor for firefighting. But when I took my instructors class, that isn't where I learned about firefighting techniques. I didn't learn about chemical compositions, how to tie knots, what hoses were used for what situations at a fire. It was assumed that I already knew how to do all that stuff and I already had the firefighting knowledge. Matter if fact, I was a lever III certified firefighter in the state of NC. It was as high as you could go. Level I was lowest certified rank, II was highest. In order to teach Level I to others, you had to be at least a level II, To teach Level II you had to be a III. To teach II, you had to be a II and also have "X: amount of other various continuing education hours, other certifications, "x" number of hours of training, etc... Anyways, the instructo class was about instructing, not about learning about firefighting. Now, I notice that WB class requirements are that you MUST have taken basic leader training (This is Scouting,New Leader Essentials) and to be trained in your positions, and if you are on the troop level, Outdoor Leader Skills - which is also reccommended for all other positions. It is alsorecogmended But could be a local thing) that you have at least 2 years experince before taking the class. So, it seems to me that when you sign up for WB-21C..it is assumed that you already have knowledge in scoutcraft and all the other essential scouting stuff. But, after a year or so of reading these threads..and seeing all the horror stories in packs and troops where leaders have no idea about what is supposed to be going on during pack or troop meetings, who don't understand how advancement is supposed to work, or other things like adults getting drunk at troop campouts....well...maybe the only thing lacking is the leadership and buisness side of traing. Most of the leaders today have the practical scouting knowledge, but they don't have any idea when or how to lead. They do not know how to stand up and get tings going. Good old boys clubs are running units in the ground? Why? Maybe they have no idea how to be leaders? Why? Cause all their best training stopped at rope tying, survival in the woods and swimming across a lake. They might ba able to take a wet stick and a rock and create a 10 bonfire under the ocean, but they can't lead a troop 10 into the woods without all hhell breaking loose. So, maybe WoodBadge has adapted to where scouting is at it's weakest? I don't know..but it's a thought!