Scoutfish

GP1971, WE did that once witha group of Webelos Scouts. It was a jok at first about being as clever as a spy, but the boys took the challenge for bragging rights and went in head over heels. Never said that everybody should be required to do it, just that it could be a real LNT challenge for those who constantly go camping - as a personal challenge.

"I was at a shelter before dark, making dinner when troop walked up and after a few minutes I was told to leave by the scout leader because they had more people and had planned on using the shelter. They had 15 people in their group. I asked to see his reservation.....oh wait all the shelters are first come first serve. At that point all three leaders were there telling me to leave." I's say sure..just as soon as you can have somebody offical (park ranger/ part director) tell me that and show me you had rights to the shelter. The3n ask why that group thinks they had any sayso or priority over a public domain.

I would think that - in a way - BSA's rules are like a state's building code: This is the minumum set of standards that you must follow to be in compliance' There is nothing to say you cannot adopt better standards when camping. You could adopt and impliment better and stricter personal standrards of LNT and wilderness compatability. No, not talking about advancement. Say fo example you go camping, you make sure you pack out all trash, poop, and etc. You make sure you didn't dig a big ole fire pit and leave it either. But what about taking all unused firewood and putting it back where you got it? Okay, that's not really a reality, but you could at least scatter the wood in a more natural placement as to not look like somebody actually collected it. Maybe when you leave your campsite, you not only us e a rake to eliminate and footprints ( depressions) , but maybe take a tree branch, sagebrush broom or something naturally abundant and use it as natures broom. Tyhink of being a runaway fellon trying to outwit a bounty hunter or tracker: Don't just leave no material trace...but leave no evidence that anybody could ever have been trhere> And the thing is, this is something that might be better learned by the boys on each consecutive trip. Of course, since I am in a Pack and not a troop...I am indeed talking out my butt! With the pack trailer, dining tent, chairs galore ( the individuals, not the packs) mobile camp kitchen, etc.... We look like Cary Grant and his Harrem of cub scouts in the middle of a barren desert with a bunch of tents!

The very fact that parents ask us if the "have" to attend a campout or meeting with their son or if they can drop him off pretty much tells me that most of the parents trust us wether it's due to YP or just that they trust us. Sure, some parents would trust their kids with matches and a can of gasoline , but it's still trust.

Cub Scout Pack 235 -->North East Cape Fear District ---> Cape Fear Council of North Carolina I never was a Cub or Boy Scout when I was younger. Either there wasn't a pack in my home town or they were in the secret cub scout service. I became cubMaster last year after the former CM, the CC and COr approched ma about taking the position. I am also a MBC for our district as well as a member of district committee and Council Camp promotor for the Cub Scouts of our district.

Not so much specialized gear...but a specialty shop. Wal-Mart, k-Mart, Target, and Sears are department stores that sell alot of different stuff. You have sporting goods shops that sell hunting, camping, fishing, and general outdoors gear for outdoors activities including equestrian and geneal outdoors work. The dive shop may offer dive trips out on bioats, but do not sell any boating, marine suppies other than actual dive gear. The dance shop might tell you where to go for dance lassons, excercise or yoga, but only sells dance/exercise wear Camp stores might sell you the clothes, the tent, the pack, the canoe, the camp furniture, the food, firewood or that cheater stuff( firelog), shoes, boots, waders, maps, and offer trips, excusrins or at least acts like a feeder to a particulat company that does tat. The scout shop sells stuff that is limited to scouting. Granted, scouts are not limited to scouting gear or related stuff, but the scout shop is limited to only selling scout stuff. Nah, the gear isn'ty really specialized, but the shop is. Besides, everybody knows that the Fleur De Lis makes everything 100 percent better! But like the wetsuit I bought way back when...it was the exact same suit: Same brand, same model number, same size, same color, etc... over $100.00 difference in price between Wal-Mart and the dive shop. So in that instance, the suit wasn't a specialized item, the difference was the speciaty shop - which was higher.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I have nothing to say about jambo, but as far as BSA selling uniforms at a higher cost than other places...well...it's not unique to BSA Back when I used to work with water rescue, I had a wetsuit,a dive skin, neoprene boots and gloves. Okay, everybody knows what a wetsuit is. most rec boatinmg supply stores, surf shops and dive shops wanted a a big chunk of change for their suits. The dive shops usually running at least double the price of a surf shop for the exact same suit( same color, brand, model number). The dive skin ( if you don't know) is basically a zip fron spandex catsuit type outfit with thumb loops and foot stirups to keep the suit in place while you wear it under a wetsuit. It makes donning a wetsuit easier, and is a wear alone outfit in warm weather. By itself, it prevents chaffing and as thin as the lycra material is, it will deflect the sting of a Man-o-war tentacle. Plus will prevent sunburn. Dive shop wanted about $150 for that. I didn't have internet back then, but bought a basic black suit at a dance shop for $40.00. Same features, but didn't have a dive brand logo on it. Everybody wanted at least $160.00 for the suit I planned to buy. I went to wal-mart and bought a Henderson for less than $70.00 (this was back in 1993) The dive shop wanted $240.99 . I bought a When my wife started her home (dvd) execise routine a while back, she went to a dance shop to buy one of those one piece full body suits and the matching leotard. It would have cost her almost $120 for the two piece spandex outfit. She got them at a discount online dance store for about $65.. for both including shipping. I could go to Wal-Mart to buy fishing tackle cheaper than the local tackle shop. But here's the thing: The local tackle shop knows me by name. They also know what kind of fishing I do. They do not sell me freshwater gear or deep seas gear. They know that I fish from shore or from a boat in the Intracoastal Waterway and bays, etc. They wil spend 25 minutes with my ten year old son showing him how to tie a knot of throw a cast net. The dive shop could steer me to a better fitting or better grade of quality wetsuit. They may know about a company fixing to go under and not being able to honor a defect warranty. They will have a ton more knowledge than Wal-Mart will with anything do do with the type of product tey sell. But all I needed was a basic suit for early season( late spring) and late season(early fall) temps (During the summer, we only used dive skins) The dance store may tell my wife ahead of time about what may be coming up event wise. Or will special order something for her that Wal-Mart of the online store may not even know about, much less be able to customize...assuming they even offer that service. Maybe it's a compression garmet. Maybe it's a slimming garment. Maybe it ofers support, slims her, warms her muscles and has a fresh smoothie waiting in the fridge after she finishes working out. But if she is fine with a basic garment from online..that's great! The scout shop is a specialty shop. Yeah, I know it doesn't seem that way because we have spent so much time going there for this or that..but it is a specialty shop. WE are part of a special club. BSA is not an average discount camp store. They also are a resouce store ( all books , manuals, leaders guides, and such) You will not find that at a camp store. They also offer advancement badges, ranks, awards, etc... Still won't get that at Campmor. Go to any mall, Almost every store in that mall will charge a substantially higher price than a discount store. Maybe the speciallty store are about right in price while the discount stores are ...DISCOUNTED? Now, I am not saying I like or enjoy the scout shop's prices, no more than I enjoy paying more for a higher quality, specialized mask at the dive shop. But the thing is, you also pay for service and extra attention you cannot get at the discount stores. I am not even sure the people at Wal-Mart know what a cast net is used for...much less show my son how to throw one. The attendant at Wal-Mart didn't know the difference between a spring suit, farmer John suit, or full wet suit. The woman at the dance shop could order something speciffically for my wife in hr choice of fabric, cut, style, and color. With or without built in underwire bra. Zipper in front, back, or without a zipper at all. If you want a good cigar, you can go to a discount cigarette shop. You want a great cigar...you go to a cigar speciallist ( tobacconist? ) You can buy a bottle or box of wine at any grocery store, but you want the good stuff...you go to a wine shop. You can buy beer at Wal-Mart, but if you want a special brew, you go to a brewist. I could go on. Think of it this way..you can choose where you buy, but you get what you pay for in product, service, quality, convienence or time . Pick two or theee, but not all.

WOW! Is thsi some sort of government program ? We teach young men to be honest, trustworthy, kind, gentle, compassionate, courteous, morally straight,etc..... We try to teach them to be upstanding citizens, we teach them to be patriotic and to due their duty to God, country , and family. WE mentor them to be our future leaders...of what? Certainly not our own troop or pack! Why not? Must be the training they got ( you know...that the adults gave them) in scouting must be flawed! Kinda a catch 22 isn't it? If you unit does not trust them, then your owm mentoring and training is flawed. But if your training and mentoring is flawed, how do you know wether you are smart enough to train them and thus - years later...be able to make a rational decision on wether to trust them or not. OUCH!

We decided that leaders could spend up to $25.00 on den/ pack supplies and get reimbursed for that just by having one other leader agree to it. You could call them, emmail them or nboth sign the reciept. Anything over $25.00 needs a leadership vote for reimbursement- wether prior to or after spending the money. This was so you wouldn't worry about not getting reimbursed later for a small expenditure for scouting relate supplies.

You know the hammock I am talking about? Nah, didn't think so. ...so here's the link: http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___67907 My line of thinking is this: You have neverd fired any gun ever in your life, and then one day, you decide to take up shooting as a sport, you do not go out and just buy a .50 black powder rifle or a .338 magnum with a night vison scope. You start out with a air rifle or a .22 and work your way up as you learn and get experience. Same thing I am thinking about hammocks.

Okay, so I forgot to answer your actual question: No, I don't think it's tyhat big a deal. If people want to get offended, they will find something wether it's the use of retreat to wether the shirt was ironed or the scout's shoes were appropriate or not. If somebody really wants to find fault, they will find it wherever they can.

In the past, we used to say retreat, and a few people got upset saying that color guards do not retreat. Funny thing is, none of the active military dads or any retired military vets were ever upset. But just to keep the peace and stop people from freaking out, we now say "Color guard dismissed".

Okay, so I wondered about hammocks and have been convinced that I want to do it. Now, in my current position as CM of a pack, I will go camping about 4 to 6 times a year. Since my son wil be a Boy scout next year, and I will remain a CM as well as some participation in Boy Scouts, I can see myself going camping 7 tp 9 times a year. Now, although I am not ready to colect welfare, I am also not walking around with money falling out of my butt either. So, in that effect, I don't know if I really need a $300.00 hammock. And I say a $300.00 hammock due to my size, I am 6'2" and around 242 pounds ( down from 260 with my new diet). Plus, I don't want to spend a bunch of money for a hammock style I don't like and have to buy a differet style or brand. So this particular hammock from Campmor seems like it will fit the bill and has alot of great reviews. So, with a more limited camping schedule, what can you say about my choice for a beginners hammock? Plus, it's cheap cost will allow me to buy differently as I learn more. I am also thinking of buying a pack too. I know it will give me the freedom I want after being used to carrying several totes of campgear for my son and myself while he is in Cub Scouts: tent, bottom tarp, rainfly for tent, rainfly ropes, extra stakes, sleeping bags, sleeping pads. inflatable mattress, pump for mattress, pillow, etc... I am thinking that I would be carrying a hammock, a sleeping bag, and my mess kit as well as a change of clothes. Should I get an internal or external pack? Or should I get one without a frame at all? Okay, I know some of your eye's just lit up knowing you get to share your expertese! Thanks

I trust my leaders. Tey volunteer their time because at the minimum, they want something better for their kids. They want them to grow up being self reliant and being able to handle themselves. At the most, they truely love working with and mentoring kids. District ..well..I trust my DE. Not quite as much as my own leaders, but I trust him. Sure, his main goal is money and numbers, but I have seen him lean the other way when it really matters. And he still remembers alot of what meant something to him when he was a cub and boy scout. Council: I trust a few, I am leary of a few, and alot of them I do not know enough to make an opinion. National: It's not so much I don't trust them per se, but it's that natural reservation you have with people or organazations that you are not closely or regularly speaking to the people who are in that organazation.

So our pack had our pack campout this past weekend. I fiulled out the onliune PFD a wek or so ago. And during the campout, or COR asked if I had a copy. I said no, because our council will send you an e-mail saying it is approved, but will not give you a hard copy unless you really insist on having it. Having a hard copy really didn't matter to me as I have digital one. So trhen thisb got me to thinking about our campout paticulars. Since we were camping behind our CO - we started doing this for the first campout to make things easier for the first time campers - do we really need a tour plan? I mean, we are at or co, and this is the same place we hold den meetings, pack meetings, cookouts, crosovers, flag retirement ceremonies, etc.... Our Co is connected to a major US hiway and in the middle of a huge (but unincorporated) town, The FD is about 1 block away. EMS is about 1/10th of a mile away. We were at the back of our CO's property and other than sleepoing in the tents, it was just a big long outdoor scout activity. Now, don;t get me wrong, I will fill out the TP every time we camp, even if it's inside our CO...but I was wondering, since the milage on the TP was 0 , and there was no driving, there ws no destination, and to and from were the exact same place ...which is alos were we meet every week...would it even be necessary for a TP? Not challenging...just wondering out of curiousity.

Okay, we just had our pack campout this weekend and it was awesome! I am not trying to brag, or toot my own horn. I just want to show what can happen if you persist! So, as I was saying......this weekend was awesome! I had alot of scouts and alot of parents say they had a blast! Everybody enjoyed it and many said it was the best campout ever! Okay, It didn't start out easy either. Last year was my first year as CM, and I wanted to stir things up a bit. Not saying our pack was dying or anything like that, but ....well..the program was sorta going stale. Same thing over and over. Same camping, same crafts, same activities, same ole same ole.I figured I was a new CM, so time for new stuff and program. Pack meetings were a bunch of announcements and then awards passed out. Passed out, but not really awarded. Think Ben Stien reading the attendance list : "Bueller.... Bueller.... Bueller....? So, even though I sing as well as a deaf donkey in heat, I started getting the boys and parents to do group participaton songs. I got them to start doing skits. I got them to start laughing and having fun. I acted silly, I told jokes...I acted like I was 9 years old! We polay Simon Sez, We run around to burn off energy between awarding dens their awards. I even went so far as to dress up like a ballerina( pink tutu , outfit and all - with necker, boots and hiking socks and scout hat) after losing a bet about wether they would finish the year and make rank or not. They still remind me how funny that was. I even changed our style of camping. Used to be nothing but advancement with breaks for meals during the day. I brought footballs, badmitton ets, frisbees, and softballs to camps. I insisted that leaders cut back on ( but not completely drop ) advancement activities. This year, I pushed it even further. I pushed out leaders and committee to change our camp menu from chicken quarters for lunch and boston butts for supper to hot dogs and chips for lunch and chicken nuggets and mac & cheese for scouts( or combination of) and cheeseburgers for adults. We made stone soup which magicaly tasted just like a chicken brunswick stew. I fought with the leaders to have our scouts build their own tomahawks out of 3/4 inch plywood. You fastened the head to the notch in the handle with twine lashing. We built teepees out of 2X2 lumber and some sort of redish brown sub floor cardboard paper barrier stuff. I set up a 5 station obstacle course and the scouts loved it. We did it over and over with scouts trading positions, Then we did it a couple more times with leaders and scouts and with parents and scouts. It was great! We played crab soccer too. Then as a surprise to all the scouts and parents...Mohawk/Seneca Indian Chief Steve Silverhils came to our camp and gave a great presentation to our boys. He sang some songs, played the drum, brought a huge table full of indian artifacts to show and explain to the boys. WE went on a night hake and we made and ate smores AFTER the hike instead of right after dinner. And we did it about a month later than we normally do...which ws nice since it was a little bit chilly ( more like crispy) instead of hot and muggy. Okay, other factors caused us to camp when we did...but I had pushed for that same timeframe without luck. Okay, while it sounds like I am patting myself on my back, I really ain't! It is not my intention at all. My point is to tell you about an amazing thing that happened last night at our leaders meeting. Used to be, our long time leaders always did what they did ( in den meetings and camping) because that is always what they did. They did it before, it worked, it was safe, blah blah blah... Our new leaders did itthat way because that's how they saw the longtime leaders doing and figured that was how it was supposed to be done. After seeing all the fun that the scouys and parents had, seeing all the smiles, hearing all the laughter and having better sessions when they were working on rank advancement and requirements...the leaders started having more fun too. They smiled more, had more fun and it was less work. So, last night at out leaders meeting, every leader and most of the committee members had at least 1 new idea they wanted to try out. Some had two or three ideas. And they were excited about it too! Some leaders already started checking around for new activities and projects. My thing has always been this: while there is nothing wrong with tradition in rememberance of something - IE: religion, holidays, national or military rememberance or family...I hate to do something only for traditions sake. Know what I mean? I don't want to do something just because it's what we always did before. B&G has a reason behind it. PWD has a reason behind it. Eating a certain food just because that is what we always did in the past is stupid. Doing the same activity over and over again during every rank of scouting will cause you to loose scouts. Anyways, at the meeting, my leaders looked just as excited as the scouts did at the campout. I am excited for them too. I am proud and can't help but smiling like a jackass! THIS IS GOING TO BE AN AWESOME YEAR OF SCOUTING!!!!

" At 1:15 p.m., they left the main group at the summit of Straightback Mountain,...." So if splitting up wasn't a bad enough idea( even with an adult)..... "... and were last seen heading west on a trail leading towards Mount Anna and back to the camp." They started out being on a trail when they left. So they left the trail, and then became lost? "Hey, this is too easy following the trail...lets just go for broke and make a new one!"

Back when I was a volunteer firefighter I was at our local community college during a training weekend. Best way I could escribe it would be "University of Scouting- Firefighter Edition" This involved paid, volunteer, Federal, airport, forestry services, and ammunition depo guys from Camp Lejune. There were a few water rescue units there also. So, during discussion in one of the classes, I was called upon to answer a question. After I gave it, one of the atendees who was also a paid firefighter at the local airports asks with dripping sarcasm and an ugly sneer: "So, are you a professional or volunteer firemen?" Before I could answer...and I WAS going to answer him.....the instructor says: "Yes, yes he is. He is a volunteer and a professional. too bad you are not!" Then he goes to explain that professional is an attitude, a state of mind and a lever of preparedness and readyness as well as how you execute your plans. Wether you are paid or not has absolutely nothing to do with being professional. Now, I'm pretty sure that this rings true with quite a many scouters: Being paid has no direct connection to how professional we are or how well we do our job. So, back to that point..I too love wearing my QUA patch, And right now, we will definantly get our JTE patch too. But I do not , nor do the parents or my DE need for me or my leaders or any of our scouts to wear that patch to know what kind of job we do. Especially the scouts...as. long as the are happy and getting something from it..the patch be damned. My question and - not directed at any one person in particular - is this: If this was a Uniform Award Knot...would anybody be this upset? If this was for a CM, SM , or scouter key award knot..would anybody even raise an eyebrow?

Neon grean poop? I wish I could see the mom's feaking out after this happens! WE buy water. Plain bottled water from the local grocery store for them to drink during the day. For meals, we mix the 5 gallon packs of pink lemonaid and also make a 5 gallon container of sweet tea. Alot of parents will buy the boxes of individual mixer packs ( for 20oz bottles) so they can give the boys the exact flavor they want. Our pack has talked about buy a case of this and just let the scouts choose their own flavor and mix it themselves so that we don't have to make 5 gallons at a time and have to clean a sticky cooler out later on.

Nah, he isn't untrained..he just isn't trained enough to meet JTE standards. BSA isn't saying you will be considered untrained, just that you don't meet the requirements to be "topgun" ( for lack of a better name). And taking "This Is Scouting" will only take you 20 minutes tops online. Are we saying people would rather spend days and weeks complaining about a minor distinction than sitting at a computer for 20 minutes? Now, I am not saying I completely agree with BSA's stance in taking an entire course over. I never said I think it's an awesom idea and that I support it completely. I am just saying I understand what they want. Understanding their side and agreeing with the entire exact details of it are not the same. Just because I am not taking the side of the majority in here does not mean I do not understand what is going on. They are not saying anybody will be untrained ot dropped from a recharter for not taking an extra class. That is just a knee jerk reation. All they are saying is : In order to maintain JTE status, you must have the latest up to date training. If not, you will still be a leader, will still do the spanking awesome job you always did...you just can't wear the patch. And that is what this is all about....a patch! I do think BSA should have a continuous training system in place by way of RT or even having a 3 hour a month setting where any and all pertinant info, ideas or changes can be passed to any and all unit. This would keep everybody up to date, and leave all training to be given to those who are starting out fresh. But for someone or a group of leaders to say they would quit and drop a unit over not getting a patch? WOW! Maybe that's exactly the people who do need to re-train, because my understanding is that it is all about mentoring the boys, giving great guidance for life, building character, and coming out with an overall well prepared young adult.......... not having a fit over wearing a patch on our sleeve. Again, I do not necessarily agree the WAY BSA wants to do it, but the reasoning WHY is sound.

" And if you do accept older training for rechartering, then why are you changing the standard for the Trained Strip and JtE?" Look at it this way; You go to your local garage and see that the owner had a bunch of framed certificates on the wall. You look closer and see they are the ASE training certificates for all the mechanics who waork at the garage. They cover different areas of training, but as you look, you see the same training listed over againand again. The only difference is the date: 2003, 204, 205, 2006, etc... WEll, once the mechanic was trained in brake systems or a/c systems, or electrical systems...well, he hasn't forgotten what he knows. The training he trook is as good as it ever was, but he kept taking newer training to keep up with the ever changing world of automobiles. Now, a 1995 Chevey truck's fuel injection system is still going to be the same system it was the day it was installed at the factory, but sooner or later, you will find out that you also need to work on a fuel injection system on a 21011 chevy truck. Scouting is changing all the time. The way youth grow up, face the world and interact is constantly changing too. Am I the only person here who doesn't text? Am I the only one who uses a cell phone for calls and nothing else? I don't text, I don't use internet with my phone either. Todays youth probably hardly ever use their cell phones to call people. While pitching tents, lighting fires, and showing boys how to avoid poison ivey has not changed much in the years, alot of other stuff has. And it's the part of the training that covers this other stuff that is different and NOT the same as what you took in the past. o, yeah, the training you took years ago will definantly serve you well with todays Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Crews or Ships. But that's just the basics. Every day there is new stuff happening and changeds being made. JTE isn't about just being trained, it is about being trained in the most up to date , newest thing out there. It's not a Journey to okayness award, it is Journey to EXCELLENCE. Cream of the crop, top of the top, best of the best. So that is why what you took back when is absolutely fine for being a leader, but not good enough to earn JTE. Baden, before you say anything about CPR, carbuerators or what not...stopp and read the sentances slowly.... It's not WHAT traing I or anybody else is comparing, but the WHY of theb traing. And again, I didn't bring up CPR first aid , or anything else like that...I RESPONDED TO that example. The reason for the training..not the TYPE of trainng. Same for todays soldiers. They are constantly having to train in new techniques, new types of combat, and train to fight in different situations to keep up with the ver chaning world. Want good examples: COMPUTERS! E-MAIL, MERIT BADGES, YTP, COMMUNICATIONS! Used to be, if you wanted to see somebody speak, you had to go see him,. Now you can watch web-casts, listen to Macuzza on line, download PDF documents in a second instead of going to print shop or waiting on mail, you can electronically file a tour plan in about 15 minutes versus filling out a tour permit in 30 and having to drive to or mail it to the scout office. The med form for a Camporree in your distrcit is not the same as filling one out for Philmont. That shortwinded 5'2" 380 pound guy who wheezes while walking may be okay for a den meeting, but will not be able to tale a troop to Betchel..unlike the past trip to Philmount. WB vs WB21C While I do not condone one over the other, I know they are different. THE WORLD OF SCOUTING IS CHANGING. The updated training is an attempt to catch leaders up. And that is why you need to train in the latest training in order to qualify as having taken the journey to Excellence . It's a constant journey, not a one time jaunt.

Yeah, I hate an announcement filled meeting too. This meeting in particular, we had the flag ceremony, I asked everybody how they were doing, then played a game of Simon Sez . and had just began the announcements when the scout with Autism came up. Again, I had no isue with it at all and honestly, I thought it added to the fun and charm of what was going on. But, it didn't take 3 more sentances out of my mouth (had to be an eternitry) before the Autistic scout went to the drums. Now again, I do hate long blah, blah, blah filled meetings, but this was also the very first pack meeting with this group , so there was going to be more announcements than any other pack meeting. I guess what it comes down to is this: The parents who make snide comments and ugly faces about other peoleschildren..when they have no clue whatsoever..and especially when their "normal" children act worse that the children they are talking about.

Yeah well...I might have been a bit mad..possibly. We do need to have an understanding though. The boy in my situation wasn't in the mindset of being a pain or even thinking he was just gona do his own thing because he was better than us. His hard wiring just doesn't work like ours. He saw something, his curiosity was piqued, and he probably didn't see anything but that drum set. It wasn't a case of dismissing the rest of the people in the room, but he did not see us. But again, about the rules thing: Technically, there are no rules for this situation. Know what I mean, We expect scouts to sit and behave, but at the same time, it is at a pack meeting where we do what we can to get them excited and riled up. And another technicality...has anybody ever told the scouts about the "sit down and do not stand beside the CM or play drums while CM is talking during a pack meeting" rule? Just saying , because with an Autistic child....you may very well have to do exactly that. Yeah, I got a bit mouthy, and that's not how I like to be or try to be. I do feel the need to point out what I said in the OP: I did not have any problem ofr isue with this scout...especially considering his mental state. My issue is with the parents who gave those "I'd never let my child do that" stares when in fact, they do let their child do that at the beginning and ending of every pack or den meeting. Matter of fact, those same parents are usually grouped together at pack campouts during the campfire picking out all the problems they see with everybody elses kids, and are totally oblivious of their own child who keeps picking up sticks and sticking the ends in the campfire to then swing the buring end around in a circle after have bee told not to by myself or other leaders. Finally, we tell the kid to step away from the fire and the kid goes crying to mom or dad who cames up all red faced and wanting to know why their poor innocent - now scarred for life - angel of a child got so rudely and inconsiderately humiliated in front of all his friends. I just want a way to tell those jewels of parenthood why the Autistic scout is absolutely fine and to let it go..without being a gossipmonger about the Autism.

We came up with something this year. That is, the CC, myself (CM) and our ACM came up with something. Used to be, the DL's would buy whatever materials, and get refunded by the pack or parents of the boys. Then last year, we started collecting $1.00 a scout den dues at each den meeting. But depending on wether somebody remembers to bring the due, or if the scout was out due to sports, sickness or just habitually missed meetings ....well, it could make planning still hard to do. So this year we designated a portion of all scout assisted fundraising as part of our den dues. POPCORN: Used to the scout got 30% of the packs share of popcorn money. Now we break it down to: 50% ( of packs share) goes to individual scout acounts, 40% goes to den, and 10% goes directly to campouts to cover camperships Camp Cards(thius is going to be our first year): 50% to scout account, 50% to dens. Our annual pack BBQ chicken fundraiser dinner: 90% goes to pack, 10% goes directly for campership funding. Used to, we gave scouts same 30% of ticket sales, but will now just award some sort of prize for highet ticker sales. But decided that we should stop dipping in evey funding source and use just this one for the pack, and use the others for scouts and dens. Den dues must be used by that den before tat den crosses out. Any leftover or unused monet will inver over to the next years Tiger dn dues , which helps cover that time period between signup when all fees go to council and recharter, when we charge our annual pack dues of $40.00. $40.00 : &15.00 for recharter, $3.00 for BSA insurance, $22.00 for pack supplies, patches, awards, etc... So far, it sounds and looks like a great idea, but honestly won't know until the end of the scouting year.

Baden, No, you missed the point, he tried to use firefighting as an example as to why having to retake training was a waste..except, that is wrong. As a person who was extensively involved in firefighting, I KNOW how the training worked. Instead of taking a class over again in a couple years, you kept up training and practice on a monthly basis. During that time, they doles out the changes as they happned. A little change here, a little change there. Thing is, nobody noticed because it happened on a small scale. You didn't take the entire class over, but the individula things did change. Now, if BSA decided to make RT count as continuing training, and just brought up the individual changes here and there...then his example would work. Now Baden, how much firefighter traing experience do you have? Cause you WOULD SEE why I did indeed get the point. Besides, I didn't bring up the firefighting example to start with, I just replied back to it. And the same thing applies to BSA and any other organazation that requires training. Nobody is saying you have to have the training. Nobody is saying you will get kicked out. They are just saying that in order to wear a "trained" patch, you shouyld have the proper training...which is current training, not old, out of date, or invalid and potentially wrong training. The commet about the patch itself is what really gets me> In the uniform forums, anybody who likes tio wear the knots they earned are chastized for being egotistical bling waerer and accuses of only wanting to pat themselves on the back. Commenst are thrown out left and right about why a patch actually means nothing unless you want to attract attention and has nothing to do with the program, how great it is or what the boys get out of it...... Then I read how some units will flat out quit if a patch is taken away, and the same people who hate knots and any other bling are jumping all over that bandwagon. So, it's not about wearing any patches that are earned, it's just about wearing "certain" patches that "certain" people earn? And unlike your customary attitude, my comments were not snide to hicountry, they were just technical.Not that you should be accusing anybody of being snide. That would be the pot calling the kettle black.