Scoutfish

Yeah, I get that peole and society had a different way of looking at things back in the day. And I understand it was "the norm" back then to do things differently. But at the same time, it still doesn't change that EVERYBODY involved hold equal blame, not just the head honch of BSA at the time. As pointed out above, SOP, specific policy or guidelines be damned! I may be loyal to, like being a part of, or enjoy what BSA does oveerall, as well as many otrher groups, cluybs and organazation ...but my conscience and the rule of the law will always trump that. As a parent, what happens to my son may not be undone after the fact, but as that same parent who is horrified and haunted by the fact something happened to my son, I WILL DO MY BEST TO MAKE SURE IT WILL NOT HAPPEN to another child. Or in thsi case, another scout. If this kinda thing was to happen again( and I am sure it won't ) BSA would have to drop me before they think I'd sweep it under the rug. And again, I do realize that as a whole, society did hide this stuff , nut just BSA, but other groups, institutions and clubs. I just ain't one to go along with it.

Oh, we are solving it allright! Either you eat what our volunteer people are making, or you cook your own thing. Which has always been the option anyways - but cost is still the same - exception being allergies or other issues like that (glutin, diabeteies) , then we will either work with ot discount price. Our Webelos will actually be cooking the sausage and pancakes and our Bears serve breakfast. Tiger parents cook lunch and tigers serve it. Leaders usually work on and cook supper while Wolves serve. Basically, the leaders and I are making it clear that this is the menu, and this is what we are coking!

While it is indeed a very horrible and attrocious thing that happened, blame has to be spread around: The local council, the local leaders on the unit level and the parents too. Why? Because nonme of them did anything either. Every one of them allowed it to con tinue on. And BSA policy be damned, if something of this magnitude ever happened to my son, You would read about how I got arrested after I broke both the guys arms, legs and jaw. Then you would read the associated story about how a guy ws beaten before being deliverd to the police and arested for what he had done.' BUt you would never hear me say: " Well, National policy was to say nothing.."

Well riddle me this as it is a question of epic Duckbilled Platypus proportions: Who is responcible for gay people? Think about it, Gays do not reproduce without heterosexual help of some sort. So it is the heterosexuals who are having gay babies. Hmmmm. Intersting!

Rainbow colored tutu's? Realy? COOL! All I see are LPGA and Richard Simmons Deal a Meal ads.

" Part A requires a copy of the participant's insurance card to be attached." I guess I have filled that out so many times...I'm not even aware of it any more. Kinda like my driver's license # and SSN.

I like to cook. So did Justin Wilson I also like to draw. So did Leonado DaVinci. And so Did Picaso ( even though I think my dog could paint better) I also love my wife who is 100% woman. Last year, Santa Claus brought me a brand new glass top stove with all the bells and whistles. I was happy since I love to cook. He also brought my wife a 42" Vizio HD tv. She was very happy too. I'm not that big a tv guy outside of the news and weather and the occasional NASCAR race as well as stuff on History channel. For about just under a year now, I wear men's compression pants at night , which helps immensely with my legs and calves cramping. Not potassioum issues eiter. My wife likes to wear men's "wifebeaters as a base layer over her bra, but under he button up shirts as they are thinner and more comfortable than a regular tshirt. So, I cook, the stove is mine and you could basically say I wear a pairof spandex leggings 3 or 4 nights a week. My wife watches a wide screen hi def tv set and wears mucle shirts. Good thing that that mom didn't raise us cause I also like to target shoot rifles, I loove camping, fishing, swimming boating, canoeing, hiking, and guy movies. You know theones: Something has to blow up, somebody has to drive 200 miles an hour while shootring or getting shot at, some woamn gets naked at least once, and the military gets called in. Yeah, a typical guy movie. My wife likes romantic comedies ( wich is an oxymoron if you ask me) puppies and kitties and anything that shows on the Lifetime channel. So what does that make us? Normal! In used to rec play volley ball , but I also played baseball and football. My wife grew up a tomboy who wore shorts and rode bikes and played sports, but grew up into a very beautiful woman who wears girl stuff: dresses, skirts, tight jeans, leggings, jewelry, some make up, etc...

Another ide for you: Go out and buy a 3" 3 ring binder and then buy those clear paper protector sheets that have the 3 ring tab on the side. Put all med forms in there and whenever the pack goes pack camping, you keep them next to the first aid station. Hand them to the council camp registrars at check in when council/district camping. Require new forms when parents recharter their scouts each year.

I have a question for you: Why do they need insurance cards and why do the adults need YP cards? Assuming your council is doing this right, any adult and scout who paid the WWD fee, registered for the WWD, and have filled and completed med forms are covered by BSA insurance. Adult parents do not have to have YP, the leaders do. Could be the parents are not getting back to you because they are not going because of all the hoops and extra requirements they asked to go through. Just saying. Beyond that, we will hand out fliers, call everybody, e mail everybody, put it on our pack web page, put it on facebook, announce it at 3 or 4 den meetings, and I will repeatedly mention it at pack meetings...............And I swear, at least 3 parents will say: "Well, nobody told me!"

TwoCub, If they would want to cook, I wouldn't mind if they brought ribeyes and caviar. But they do not want to cook. They want the leaders to cook ribeyes and caviar. And they want the leaders to do it for $10.00 for all three of the meals. Basically it comes out like this: I want ribeyes, baked potatoe, slad and a glass of fine wine, but I ndon't want to be the one to lift a finger...I want somebody else to do it, and I want $10.00 to cover all the meals Saturday and Sunday breakfast." Like I said, this is only one day. It's camping. Thing is, we discussed it and voted on it a while back, and then after we started implimenting it, everybody started coming up with diferent ideas. Sorry, to late, too little money, and too little cooks! You have every day for the rest of the year to wine and dine at the steakhouse! And somebody asked if it was the parents. YOU BET IT IS! The scouts love hotdogs and hamburgers, They act like they will like chicken nuggets. But they do not want chicken quarters, Boston Butts, barbeque hog, steak tar tar, or anything else like that. If mom and dad want the scouts to learn all about fine dining, they can do that 364 other days of the year. Incidentally, we do let Webelos cook hobo meals and foil tenst, cardboard oven, etc at Webelos campouts.

It all sounds like the government conspiracy I been figuring out. In the late '50's and Early '60's , the government brought monkees from space. Sure, they pretended that NASA sent one up, but that was just a cover to hide the fact monnkeys came from space. This was first Contact! They tried to take over our minds by the way of drug use ( monkey sugar) and it failed, so then they tried to convert us through music : IE The Monkees. When that failed, they tried to get us through tv : IE BJ and the Bear, Clyde from the Clint Eastwood Movies, and that monkey that Reagan hung out with. Then next thing you know..Reagan is president. NASCAR starts using NASA type technology and next thing you know, Tim Flock is driving around with a monkey, Time Later dies of aids. Then things get tougher: Monkees are discovered to be responsible for AIDs, the governmet offers "Government Aid". Then Michael Moore and one of his NASA buddies discovers that an alien "Planet of the apes" is pending an attck, and then NASA is suddenly (publicly) finding itself without funds. Then Bill Clinton ( who spanked his monkey too much) and Hillary ( why Bill spanked his monkey too much) start working ofn a National Health Care Bill W Bush kinda looks like a Monkey and almost talkes as legibly as one. Obama's citizenship is questionable and possibly Kenyan of Nature. Kenya has alot of Monkeys. Obama wants to institute mandatory health care......IE Government Aid(s). The Monkey are taking over and our government is an accomplice! Wow, If I had more time to have thought this out...I might have actually come up with something good!

Now, let me add: I have nothing agisnt a DO competition where you see who can make the best and tastiest on dish gourmet meal, or even having a competition in the troop or pack amogst all the scouts or adults..but to expect the pack to cok like that for everybody is too much!

Okay, I hope I am not the only one with this kind of problem. We are going pack camping in a week, and getting final head counts for food. Our Menu: FRIDAY NIGHT: On your own! SATURDAY: Breakfast - sausage and pancakes w/ syrup Lunch- Hot dogs and chips Supper- Cheseburgers for adults, chicken nuggets for scouts SUNDAY: Breakfast- Danish and juice/hot chocolate/ coffee Truth be told, I'd just assume have everybody eat cheeseburgers for supper. but a few leaders whines that their angels wouldn't eat that , but would eat chicken nuggets. One DL is going to bring a fryer and fry all the nuggets. But before you laugh at this - let me tell you how hard it was just to have this. In the past, we'd cook cheeseburgers AND hotdogs for lunch, and make salsa dip, Tostito's diping chips, salad, cookies, chocolate pudding, and jello cups for lunch, For supper we would have Boston Butts or a whole hog or chicken leg quarters with boiled potatoes, green beans, slaw, and yeast rolls. Yeah, I know! Last year, I said enough was enough! This is camping. I mean , reallY? Can't we just eat camp food for one freaking day? So last year, we cooked hotdogs for lunch, and cheeseburgers for supper. Everybody was happy, the scouts were especially happy since they didn't have to turn their noses up to supper, and nobody had to start cooking supper at 1:30 in the afternoon. But this year, it's like all of the committee forgot. The CC, ACM and myself (CM) decided on the menu because it was simple, did not require alot of time or work, is definantly a whole lot cheaper, and because...well dammit...we are camping! Eating burgers for just one day won't kill anybody. If you can't bear it, bring your own food. But a few people ( not the ones who plan on cooking, by the way) are saying that since we are camping for fun, we should have an all out dinner. So, we are NOT going all out. And I am going to keep it simple, but I have to ask: Do people act like this in your pack? I'm just saying, One day out of the whole week , you will not eat like you are at OutBack steakhouse. Is it really gonna kill you? Edited because I made half the post BOLD!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Jay, you might want to see that your council updates it's training for it's staff. "I've taken Webelos camping, and sucessfully floated my OLS in place of Baloo/Owls in our Council." You do not have to have BALOO to take Webelos camping either. It's good to have, and won't hurt, but is not a requirement to take Webelos camping. All you have to have in training for your position.

Better watch those tomboy girls, they might whipp up the boys when it comes to sports! My wife was a tomboy. Loved to do all the cool stuff boys do instead of pretty dresses and dolls. She played softball, volleyball and flag football. She liked motorcycles and fourwheeling and was just as comfortable in the woods as any other boy was. Maybe that's why we get along so great! But, I would do just like I would in all other aspects of the rules: Say no. Would I think having an active girl in our pack would be cool? You betcha! Would I be bothered by a gay leader? No, but if he tells me he is.....again it comes to the rule thing. Same with an athiest. Same with anything I probably wouldn't know about. But you can't help but notice a girl is a girl ( most of the time). Here's my stance, I do not always agree with or like all the rules, but I follow them ( as far as I know). If mom and dad get mad, I can say : "Hey, don't blame me, I do not make the rules, but I HAVE TO follow them, lest I get fired."

But technically and idealistically: NO. Cannot get Leader award. Can get Scouter award.

I hate when I think I posted somethiung, and it didn't take. Basement, The reason I said to check with council was because that, until just recently, they listed all adult leaders as just that: Leaders. They didn't differentiate between ADL's and DL's. Plus as in a situation we had once, the ADL pretty much was the acting DL because the DL was absent more times than he wsa present for meetings. Matter of fact, this is where my scouter career started. There were 3 ADLs, but two of us pretty much ran the whole thing because the DL missed more metings because something always came up at the last minute. Let me put it this way: How bad is it when the DL has to go to the ADL's to find out how his own son is coming along in adbvancement?

Let me clarify something: I have no problems with this scout at all. I think he's great! The DL and the boys in his den have no problem either. But this was this scout's first Pack meeting, and the first time the other parents saw him aside from him running around before or fater the den meetings....which means he looked like all the other scouts! And at the pack meeting, him coming up and standing next to me isn't really all that different either. Alot of scouts will stand up, stand closer, get carried away during some pack meetings. In this case, he came up right after I had them riled up and playing Simon Says. So, the only issue was him walking up to the drum setb and starting to play it when I was talking. And his mom did come up and get him every time he did this. My question was about the parenst who are not associated with his den, and who would pretty much only see him during pack meetings. But , I think I will just let things be like they are. If something gets said or brought up, I will handle it then. Thanks!

I am not condoning calling 911 for hiccups, a scratch, or even a big splinter. But that extra agonozing heartburn could actually be a heart attck. The adult who went to bed with a severe headache and won't wake up and acts groggy when he is usually up at 5am? Might be a small or regular stroke. Stomach cramping 2o0 to 30 minutes after using your water purification tablets? WEll, who knows what crap you ingested. That tiny little red bump on your thigh that you don't remember getting? Could be a black widow - or worse- a brown recluse bite. You have about 30 minutes to get treatment before the BR bite starts rotting flesh and staring a very , very nasty infection. Scouts running around and being scouts, except that one who is strangely quiet and just sitying still.? I don't want to wait to see if he becomes exstended or curls up in a fetal position. Again, nobody says to call an ambulance for pine cone scratches, or dirty kneees. But alot of real emergencies start out as "it's no big deal" 's. WE know that shortnes of breath could mean too much activity, an oncoming cold, pnuemonia or COPD kicking into high gear. Is that kid having an Eptileptic eppisode or is he having seizures because of somethjing else. Thing is, alot of people DO NOT know when an emergency is an emergency. But that works both ways. Yeah,we used to get some calls that were not emergent in any shape way, or means, but alot of people wait a few days to go to the doctor and never get their because they were experiencing a real emergency and did act soon enough. Now, as far as EMS having it's time wasted...it's just like a speeder asking a cop why he's wasting his time with a stupid ticket when he could be solving a real crime like murder. Well, as our chief of police once said: "A speeder is a potential wreck and homicide just waiting to happen, so therefore, I might just have prevented a murder when I pulled you over!" EMS has no idea if it's an emergency or not til they get there and make assessments. And the thing they may forget is this: The person who called EMS does not have the training to know the difference.

We have a new Tiger scout who is Autistic. We have had other scouts with Autism, or ADHD, and one who had Asperengers, but this boy is what I call more of a standout. Now, since I am not an expert on Autism, have no training, and a small amout of experience with it, I cannot say wether this boy has it more or less severe. Meaning, I don't know if his actions are from a more sever case of Autism or a lighter case of it. Here's what happened: At our last pack meeting ( and his first pack meeting) we opened with colors, that I jumped into a game of "Simon Says". Basiccally, I got the scouts all riled up. Then I welcomed everybody, said hellow, etc..and gave a few quick announcements before we started recognition of the scouts. WEll, it was during the announcements that this scout walks up and stands beside me. I say hey to hjim, and shake his hand. He tells me his FULL birth name and I say to the audience: "WEll, this is "first name". Then the scout looks at me and says: "NO! It's "first, middle, middle, last name"!" I laugh, and so does the audience. He then says again: "NO! IT's "first, middle, middle, last name!". I say with a big smile: Okay, thsi is First, middle, middle, last name. He's a new Tiger Cub." So the scout shakes my hand and sits back down with his mom. Then I start talkiing about our upcoming pack campout and mention that the scouts will have chicken nuggets and macaroni and cheese for the Saturday supper. So the same scout walks back up to me and tells me he loves macaroni. and then sits back down. This happens several times before he finally walks behind me and sits at the drum set and starts playing the drums. Okay, here's the deal, I had no idea that the scout was autistic at first, but after the 3rd or 4th time he came up, you could pretty much tell that something along those lines was going on. Could have been Autism, Asperengers, a topuch of Downs Syndrom ( except physical features) or any ADHD or similat trait. Could have been just a genuine friendly scout - whic is what I thought at first. I learned from his DL that the mom said he was Autistic. Okay, getting off track here.... While I thought this scout was actually very entertaining and added a really cool and special touch to the meeting, I could see quite a few parents give that look they give when they think a kid is just a spoiled brat. After the meeting, and after the mom left, a few parents were talking abouyt how she wasn't doing a good job as a mom, with discipline, teaching respect, etc....and they themselves would never let their kid do that sort of thing. So (finally) here is my question: How do you explain to these parents that this scout has Autism and that he is not spoiled ...but explain it in a way that isn't making an example of the scout, or pointing at him? How do you explain this to prevent needless judgement and make sure that other parents decide to let their kids "just run around" because this one does without breaking the trust and confidentailality of the scout and mom? I say this because I do not want it to sound like gossip and I do not want it to look like we are making fun or saying ( please excuse the bluntness )"Hey, look at the retard!". I do not want to come off as condescending or patronizing, but I do feel the need to defend this mom and her son's honor. That make sense? I want these judgemental parents to know and UNDERSTAND what is going on, but do not want to point out this scout as being different. I do not want to offend the mom, but I can tell that people are getting the wrong impression about him and at some point, the talking will get back to the mom as this stuff usually does. I want this scout and mom to stay with us, and the DL loves the boy after 3 meetings. Yeah, this is a touchy one. Any advice? Thanks in advance! Scoutfish That make senser?

I'd say call your local council office and speak to the person that knows everything: The registrar! The only reason I say this is because I have seen peole who become DL's, but (through no fault of their own) end up being caught up at work or have situations arise at home that causes them to rely on ther ADL to do at least half of the work if not more. And we know that sometimes, the only difference between a DL and an ADL is title alone.

Okay, so how about storage and maint? With my tent, I unstake it and flip it upside down while still connected to all the graphite poles in an attempt to shake some of the 45 pounds of dirt, leaves, twigs, and whatever else my son tracks in. I roll it up, take it home and set it back up during the middle of a dry sunny day to air out, vacuum and wipe all dirt off . So, how about tha hammock? I'm willing to bet cleanup and maint is less, but is it the same? Shake out any dirt and twigs, leaves and air it our before......?

I think you have a great point Basement. And to answer you question from my expoerience in life in general: Somewwhere in between "Man who had experience as a youth scout and a Man who had experience as a youth scout and attended NYLT, Brown Sea or youth leadership training. I thin experience as a scout will always be advantageous since ( in theory) yu have a connect by knowing what it was like to e in the scouts shoes. Of course, the disadvantage is something we all face at some point or another: The good ole days syndrome" REmember how great it was when you could buy a bottle RC Cola and a MoonPie for a nickle? A quarter would get you a ticket to the movie AND a box of popcorn AND a soda, Ane wheh you went in, not only did you not sit through 30 minutes of previews, but you saw at least 2 cartoons and a 3 stoodges clip before the main movie. Of course the down side was that your mom or dad only made $25.00 a week in takehome pay, and there was no A/C , people died of diseases that are now considered minor conditions that you take a pill for, and hurricanes might devastate your town before you even knew there was a hurricane coming. So, the problem with a scouter who attended NYLT, Brown Sea or youth leadership training might be that they already decided that everything new is just crap and a total wste of time. The result might be they don't make half an effort to work the new stuff or they think they already know it and screw it up. Basically, it comes down to the teachers attitude and mindset. Just like school teachers: There are those who enjoy teaching and love working with kids. They are pasionate about teaching and seeing peole discover and learn new tings. Then you have teachers who act like you are lucky to have them in your unworthy presence. They think they did you a personal favor just to even acknowledge you exist. I guess it all comes down to two things: The attitude and personality of the student, what they expect, and think they will get from it....and the attitude, mindset of the teachers and how they look at the class and what they plan to give of themselves while teaching.

rkfrance's link shows a very cool hammock that claims you can sleep on your side. It even has one that two people can sleep in without touching each other...if you believe it. No see-um netting and rain flys that cover completely. If you don't mind forking out $300.00

WOW! I wonder what happened with that? I thought it posted 3 times, but ended up being 3 pages?