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... and his step father does not embrace scouting in any way shape or form. Actually, I think that works towards him staying in the program! I've seen lots of boys part ways with their dad at about this age because dad was just a little too enthusiastic about scouting. My youngest is age 14. Loves the fun -- doesn't want to work to have it! You'd almost think he didn't care. But ... Last week, for a boy's Eagle app, council HQ was having trouble finding all the troops MB slips from 2009 summer camp! As soon as I told him, he hustled up and checked his blue cards. My colleagues are psychologists, and they can explain it all to me with great confidence. I still have no clue what they're talking about!

Actually, my first YP course was from a camp committee chair who was well informed. He did go over number of incidents/allegations and described some of them in detail, including how they were handled. One of them did involve our troop. Nobody ran for the door.

I think some basic concepts: Be part of the conversation around you. Tune into our campfires. Ask if you may use a tool. Ask how you may use your device to improve the life of the troop. Earn money and pay for your own devices. No cussing. Whatever the medium. Buddy system. Don't browse alone. Discard batteries safely. Gotta talk to the GF? Your fellow scouts have the right to say 'Hi'! (This roughly parallels our social policy in the Crew. On activities, you are not sole property of your GF/BF. There is no "snogging time".) Not all of these need to be on the chit. For example GF issues only apply to some boys. Even "campfires" may be too specific.

Processing fees are a hidden expense that discourages volunteers. Worse, volunteers are the gateway to the units. What if a unit decides to stop inviting FOS to present in retaliation for exorbitant fees on its volunteers? Make the calls as suggested above, but I'd also go with facts on how many prospective FOS contributors you have access to. In leiu of $, maybe you can provide phone #'s?

Local rules apply, so ask your district advancement chair. I'd be happy to see the boy in either Life scout or ASM uni. Both reflect to me that he has a strong connection to the troop. But, if he wanted to feel "grown up" and wear suit and tie, I'd take no offense. Most of our 18 year-olds show up to BORs with their life scout uniform. They're still getting their heads around the whole adult thing. Some of them give me blank stares when I hand them their voter registration and say "Happy birthday, run my country well!"

People don't look to sports for a moral high ground. Coach can be as promiscuous as they come, as long as he aint groping kids and is winning championships. Round here, conservatives send their kids to private schools, and demand vouchers to cover the expense of having to do so because of "corrupting" mandates. Or, they run for school board and attempt to muzzle permissive teaching.

The gal that liked to camp, be outdoors, etc. doesn't mean that Venturing has gained a good or natural leader, it means the gal likes to camp, be outdoors and so she joined a Venturing Crew. Agreed, there is nothing in her equating Venturing to outdoor activity that indicates her leadership ability. You'll just have to take my word for it that she was a strong leader (not entirely natural, a work in progress), and without her efforts we would not have had half the hikes, no sailing, etc ... My point is she didn't name any of the leadership that she exercised as what defined her life in the crew. I guess a more reflective leader might say "got a bunch of kids out into the big woods." Making the notion of acquiring followers more explicit. But most natural leaders don't measure themselves by anyone following them, but by accomplishing a task. Implicit in that is that a handful (or sometimes a council full) of youth followed them in the process! You have to point out to them when they are leading. They might just miss it if you don't.

I've heard from youth who love their respective program as-is and don't want it to change. I know others who wish things we're different.

Adding to JMH, I would say that natural born leaders produce a vision that suits them, finds people who will fulfill that vision (either because they share it or are willing to adopt it) and ignores folks who don't have that vision or aren't willing to adopt it. That's where conflict may come in, and natural born leaders have to learn to become good leaders, just like the rest of us. Because you may need the folks who you've just ignored, and suddenly impersonal skills that might not have been part of your toolset have to be deployed. If you don't have them, you may have to set aside your aspirations until you do.

I hate to say it, but this may be one you can't win. But, before we throw in the towel ... By prepared, are we talking boys preparing their own meals? Are the recipes involved enough that scouts have to tend fire, get water etc ... as they prepare them? Ideally you have scouts busy enough that they work up an appetite as they cook. If not, the boys need to be active in a wide game until just before meals. Idle time is the carb-loader's playground. (Personal experience talking here!) Snacks are for after supper (that includes clean-up). Maybe even after evening campfire.

[Meant to post this as a new topic, but got an error. Anyway, it fits here.] I went to a Venturer's senior dance recital. The program had bios of the graduating class (submitted by the youth). This youth mentioned Venturing as one of her activities, but did not say that she was an officer at the crew or council level. What she did say: "often goes hiking, camping, and sailing" It's not that she wasn't a leader, or that we did not spend a lot of time focusing on leadership training. But her *focus* was not the leadership, but rather the tasks of our crew. I think natural born leaders aren't so bothered about who's in charge, but they show a passion for the task at hand.

Same device, no delay reading topics this AM. However: - I tried to start a topic and got an error message. - I just got an attack warning trying to open a thread Ea just started.

I don't think there's a knot for that in the current program http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/10K.aspx. There used to be one for Explorers who earned Ranger. Medals are intended to be worn on lapels for formal occasions.

If the pants are such an issue, then perhaps he is not suited to being an adult leader. I know this sounds harsh, but in the long run, what example is he setting for the Scouts? If the BSA is a uniformed organization, shouldn't the expectation be to wear the uniform. What does the Scout/Scouter gain from "cherry picking" parts of the program he doesn't like? How is that being obedient? Just doesn't mesh with the facts on the ground. Some of the most caring adults -- truly the best for the kids, the ones who best assist the SM -- uniform poorly. Some of the most pompus windbags -- ones who are "my way or the highway, no I'm not camping away from my son, not HIM for my son's SPL" --- uniform immaculately. So we teach the boys (at least I teach my sons) that there's obedient and Obedient the lower case worries about every legal stripe that could be thrown our way, the upper case feels he owes it to you to keep you safe and always wants you to pursue a higher calling. 25 cents a day, that may be how much more it takes to get to work every year. $180: that may be two events a year that an adult has to pay to chaperon and transport. (Factor in the cost one should spend making sure the vehicle is ready for travel.) So I can see how in the grand scheme of things a pair of uni pants vs. some shoddy approximation is a reasonable trade-off. The person simply feels he is Obedient a higher ideal of scouting that self-appointed uniform police seem to ignore. Again, a heart-to-heart about it over a campfire or coffee is more important than reading some chapter and verse on "BSA is this" or "BSA is that."

While in Athens one summer, my son tried to find the scout shop to by me their equivalent of a council patch. But the shop (or the apartement that served as their HQ) was closed. I always kind of hoped it was because everyone was out Hiking and camping!

I mostly recall walking a mile to get a decent cell phone signal ... Shoot. If it were two miles I might have added it to my list.

peri - You mean Enable phase. :-) The Do the book phase! Calico, I agree. It should be natural. PL sees a boy navigating during the 5 mile hike, getting better at it each mile. Gets back to the meeting house. Gets the boy to open his book. Signs off on the navigation. Another scout brings up his book saying he hiked those same five miles. PL may refuse to sign if the only skill shown was repeating "Are we almost there yet?" every quarter mile. Most PL's are more comfortable doing this than making up a hike for everyone just so Johnny could fulfill his requirement. All of the requirements should work out this way.

I'm in the same boat. we're in the "muddle through" stage between old and new officers. In this situation, I pick the bare minimum that I can contribute, ask my co-advisors to do the same, and that becomes our program skeleton.

Tok, good work. My thought (trying to make it practice, but not there yet): Put as much fun into your VOA meetings as fun as possible. Get the word out that you had a blast (and conducted some business). Send letters to advisors and crew presidents making it clear that that they are missing out. Has anyone read the Venturing Monthly Program Forum guide (http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34342.pdf)? Were they able to implement it? Did it work?

More likely lazy instead of pompous. The guy has one auto-signature and puts every catch-all position in it. (By the way, in my previous post, I forgot that right-left carets and anything between get interpreted as .html it's usually ... Yours in a spirit of fun and adventure, _First_Name_ Scouts and other youth it's often: Yours scoutingly, Mr. _Last_Name_)

If you can't spell it correctly, don't do it! Forget quizzing. Ask the boy, "Before we start this conference are you able to do or tell me about each requirement you have signed off so far?" If he hems and haws say, "What are you weak on?" Then say, "Why don't you practice it and come back?" Then, when he's ready, you can get to the nitty-gritty of the conference. (What he liked. What was challenging. His plan. Where to take the program next.) Really, isn't there already enough paperwork in this world?

Use the titles relevant to the message. Just enough to help recipients understand where they might know the writer. Parents in the troop only need to know I'm ASM and maybe crew advisor. Parents and youth in the crew only need to know I'm Advisor. And only then after we've had a bump in membership. Why? Because they may not remember my name -- even though they've just signed the youth over to my care. Folks around council might need to know I'm both of the above and Advisor to VP-Program VOA. My wood badge SM likes to know the positions I hold as well as my patrol, so I may add "Old Crow". If it's familiar correspondence (to familiar adults and crew officers), however, it's usually ... Yours in a spirit of fun and adventure, Scouts and other youth it's often: Yours scoutingly, Mr. Needless to say, I hate auto-signatures! I'd invariably pick the wrong one and wind up offending someone like TwoCub!

Assist the SM. Nuff said. (But of course, I'll expound!) If you're a morning person, get the coffee started. Night person, clean up the adult site. If he'd like you to look sharp, throw on the uniform, if he'd rather you chill, dress down a little. If he wants you to demonstrate a skill, do it. If he would like you to sit in on an SM conference, do it. However you want your boy to act towards his patrol leader, do the same toward your SM. Get to know the SPL. Accord him a large measure of respect. Go to committee meetings and roundtables. Keep an ear open to things that might suit your gifts and talents. Let the SM know where you think you can add to the life of the troop. Take as much training as you can, because when there's an emergency, the more "heads in the game," the better. As your responsibilities with the boys increase, you won't have as much time for training. Any certifications you may have (Climbing, CPR, Aquatics), keep them up to date! Yeah, and all the sit back and relax stuff applies as well -- if every ASM is doing their bit!

On behalf of the many youth who will benefit from your hard work, thanks for stepping in and coaching your Skipper. I've learned so much from my youth. I think I still have a lot to learn. The biggest challenge is that parents-off-the-back thing.

Oh. I thought you were going to be the COR! Two words: brace yourself. "Ethical controversies" are a hallmark of a highly functional crew. They are part of the requirements for earning awards. I'm just saying you already come with couple of topics that may or may not be of interest to the youth. It sounds like you have a good plan for working them out. Since it's taken me six years to find a youth willing to host one, I'll let other advisors comment on how they made this part of the program work. There's absolutely no reason why you can't be a ministry group that does a truckload of outdoor stuff. Or an outdoor group that encourages ministry. I'm more of the bent that we figure that out as we go along, and if we start that figuring with the youth from the outset, we set the tone that they are in charge of their destiny. Oh, by way of full disclosure (and maybe this supports OGE's point), if there's a hike to be had and a youth drops the ball, I'm in there taking up the slack. But that's because I love backpacking!