qwazse

I am FINE with my son going hungry because of say, not enough food (i.e. poor planning), but I am NOT fine with him getting food poisoning (i.e. poor supervision). Does that make sense? Sounds like we have a volunteer for cooking merit badge counselor! Okay, I'm from an ethnicity that eats raw meat. (We try to be on good terms with the farmer and butcher so we know what we're grinding into some awesome entree`s.) But, yes, boys and food are a big concern. All it takes is one kid not washing his hands after coming from the latrine! Generally older boys have learned this so they make pretty good supervisors. They're eating the same food and care deeply about such things! But usually if it's one incident, and everyone heard about it, the older boys will make sure it doesn't happen again. So you should ask follow-up questions like when this happened and who knew and how did they change things. Often the story a boy brings home from camp omits the latter two details that would ease a parents mind!

We old folks like to play this "shades of grey" game. Don't let us do it. First of all, there's no such thing as "just a formality." Sorry nobody's told you that before, but now you know for future reference. Respectfully tell the committee, that for the sake of the boys you will either: 1. Wear the SM patch and do that job to the best of your ability. 2. Wear the ASM patch and help the SM do *his* job to the best of his ability. Finally, get the CC and COR on the line and tell them they are allowed to have qualms about you being an SM, in which case they need to offer the position to someone else. But, if they have no qualms, you'll need their full support, and you never want to be blindsided in a meeting like that again. You never want any committee to treat any adult that way. If something's in doubt, spell it out!

pro) Venturing young ladies love Cubs! They might not care about potential suitors in uniform, but the little ones in those dress blues have an overwhelming "cute factor!" FWIW - Crew parents can find the youth leadership method of venturers a little disorienting. Especially when they see me setting up my hammock and taking naps while the youth are out running program. (They catch on when its 11:30 PM and I start making rounds doing "last call" and accounting for everyone's location!) But the same dad who is "just observing" one moment, will be taking some kids out kayaking at my request the next. It's really a simple rule. We're hands off until we need to be hands on. It's that "need to be" bit that takes a little figuring! Folks like m2c need coaching and encouragement rather than pigeonholing and door closing. "I certainly do enjoy ... not having to sleep on the dirt on camping weekends." That just broke my heart.

It's a balance. If your boys want to plan a trip to a wilderness recreation area that will involve a few days of hiking, then for the sake of conditioning your program is dictated by the hike-a-month club. Given that hiking is best managed in small numbers, it might not be a bad idea to fit in something that helps the boys connect with other youth in the area and gives everyone a change of pace. But, each of us probably receives dozens of suggestions/flyers/e-mails a month. Which ones should you offer the boys? My approach is to offer them any that will fit into the leaders' schedules. Basically I give the line to the SPL "Here's a weekend when we're not hiking, fundraising, or doing a service project. Here's what I know is happening. Do you think any of this would interest you or the boys?" It's interesting to see what they will jump on, and what they'll pass on. Our boys like doing things on their own (or sometimes with the Crew or one other troop). They feel no obligation to attend council or district camporees. And, they'll pass on "ballpark" camping. (Note how in the other thread I said I was trying to get guys to camp after fall football games. Emphasis on "trying". Zero traction with the boys so far.)

I forgot about patch collections! Showed mine from way back around a picnic table, and that got the boys psyched! Power points sell to adults, patches to scouts. Not sure what sells to Venturers.

I'm sorry, but if someone is setting up a 3-D range for our boys in the Troop (or the co-eds in the Crew), it ain't gonna be no over-sized slug. It's gonna be the prey we find in the wild. And if even half the crowd is hunting age, we may set up a 2-D range with paper targets with images of animals. Never letting boys shoot effigies of people makes sense. There's a time and a place for that, but scouting isn't it. But animals ain't people. Cruelty is never teaching a youth what a kill shot is, how to make it at different angles, and what the chances are of success or failure. Humanity is teaching them what parts not to aim at and when not to take that shot. That way if they are in a survival situation (or just getting some extra on the table to help folks make ends meet), they will dispatch their prey quickly and not offend their Maker by inflicting unnecessary pain and suffering. I can understand the rules for a BSA range where folks from all walks of life are passing through on an hourly basis. But blanket admonitions just don't make sense.

If the folks in your area don't have that financial wiggle room, don't bother promoting "big ticket" items! But if they do ... Our troop has a bunch of travelers. Always had. Some parents valued that sort of thing, so their boys were going to go somewhere for the summer. Why not Jambo or an H/A base? This is a wild generalization, but these families sacrificed having nicer cars, larger property, or some other amenity that's pretty standard for others in our school district. I don't know how that cycle started, but it is maintained by youth coming back and sharing their experiences. Certainly with our crew, the second generation had none of that experience. But they saw the first generation's pictures of Seabase and heard of our wilderness backpacking trips, and that inspired them. On the other hand, no matter how much they hear about Jambo from other scouts, they aren't biting. But, the one thing they do that the first generation didn't is go to Area meetings. Go figure. I agree with -Fish. Bring back every bit of info from roundtable that you can. Post it somewhere. Get other parents to go to roundtables so they can get inspired. I also agree with BD. Focus on the youth training and the rest *may* follow. Invite the lodge chief to visit your troop. Plan an activity with a neighboring troop or crew. Get one or two boys to go to your OA conclave. Go to district events. Have an NYLT scholarship fund. The other stuff may follow. If it doesn't it's the least of your worries, really.

Not gonna lie to ya Fish. CM to ASM is not always an easy transition. Our last three who crossed over opted for committe member or commissioner. (Either directly or after trying out ASM.) Putting up with all of the youth-led set-ups is a challenge. But each of those guys added to the life of their troop. So no regrets. And on the outside chance that one of them was ASM material over the long haul, it aw worth giving them a chance. Dive in. Be yourself. Adapt. I'm sure you'll do a fine job.

#5 - don't assign them to a job a youth should be doing like QM.... Agree in general. But if you have a QM with ADD or OCD, and an adult with some skills in logistics. The pairing might help transfer some skills the boy may need to manage his job and overcome other difficulties in life. Most boys don't know how to train a sales force, so if you have a new adult who is good at that maybe he can assist your popcorn kernel. Likewise, your boys may know how to treat for shock, but never having seen someone in it, can't play a victim very well. A medical professional may be able to act out that part for the boys in a first aid challenge, or coach the boy acting victim so everyone can "keep it real." Your chaplain's aid may be available to run a service, but may need a chaplain to help choose the material. In other words, you want ASMs in positions that complement -- not replace the boys.

I bet the ASM's went around the table and based their decision on what they knew of the scout, the body of water, and their ability to manage the situation. If things looked good on paper, but they had doubts, they wouldn't have given the clear. For example, there's no way I'd ask an adult (or other youth, for that matter) to spend the day in a boat with a kid who has recently shown profound lack of discipline. Until he corrects his track record, that boy stays home no matter how high he jumped from, how far he swam, and how long he floated. So if you as a parent think scout may have bigger problems, call the SM. But, if once he's in water he puts his head up and his feet down, and if when told something he listens, it's probably best for him to go.

I can see how this can play out: Cub-Parent #1 crosses over, gets up in the face of boys and adults about how disorderly meetings are. How things have to change or they will find another troop for jr. How, "boy led can't possibly mean what's happening here." SM or CC spend much of their time telling parent to chill. Cub-Parent #2: crosses over. Meek and teachable, ready to roll with the punches. But troop leader -- worn raw from the last experience -- decides to be preemptive, explain that boy-scouts is the next level up from cubs and the game changes, and maybe some time in the dugout will do the parent a world of good. Is it any wonder that the message comes across as "You don't know Jack for all your years in the B-league!"? I liked the way the troop CC explained it when my oldest crossed over. He had us sign up for summer camp and settle accounts for our boys individually in a separate room. Then he said "You understand if you come to camp, you won't be following your son from A to B to C like you did at Webelo's resident? You sit around talking to us adults. We stay away from the campfire until the boys are in bed. For meals you rotate as a guest at each patrol, not just your boy's. Your responsibility is to ask how the day is going. You eat what they cook without telling them how to cook it unless they ask for help. Except for your personal silverware, you don't help with the dishes. And, when the boys are off at program, there's really not much to do but sit by the edge of the lake and fish." "Let me get this straight, I have a week where someone cooks my meals and nobody expects me to do much except catch bass and panfish? Where's that dotted line?" I would like to think that he would have made the same offer if I were female, but even if he didn't, I liked his style and have since used it with both moms and dads. That is: less talk of position, more talk of tasks.

Are you even involved in Venturing? Your posts say no. You know, BP, it's that sort of ad hominem rhetoric that leads folks to peg you as unnecessarily argumentative. The mission statement should really come from the Venturers themselves My OP in this thread, next to last line: direct quote from such a person. who have been directly involved with a successful crew. Define successful: prodigious numbers of youth in the same unit, or a half dozen youth who manage have unique adventure for a few consecutive years before going their separate ways? Venturing is that point in scouting where we stop treating the teens as children and start treating them as the adults they are becoming. Good statement! So, is that a youth's quote? Or yours? Because if it's a youth's, I'll probably cite it. But if it's yours then, by your assertion, I wont be genuine if I use it.

$180 for two uniforms is too much. Well, cut out a cup of coffee. You mean I could have had six more months of coffee if it weren't for this uniform? Dang!

I have been trying to propose this to my youth for football season: pick a location near the field. Camp there after the game. Even invite scouts from the opposing team if you know them. Heck, invite girlfiends to stop by the campfire until lights out. Rack up camping nights. Have fun.

Let the BOR be a teachable moment. You know that "Dogs love trucks!" commercial? Tell the boy "Scouts love paperwork!" But give him a reason based on the aims of scouting. Here's how I would do it ... If he completed the requirements, he should be able to tell you who signed off on each and when. Obviously he's not going to remember everyone, unless they were all by his PL. But, I'd ask him to try, and you all fill out a chart of the requirements while patiently listening to him. Then for the ones he forgot, you can ask "how do you think the person who signed off that requirement would feel if he knew you can't remember him helping you?" "If you make Eagle and want to thank the folks who helped you along the way, how are you going to remember who helped you earn this rank?" "How much do you think this has to do with being courteous?" "How can we help you do a better job in the future?" "When you're a leader, how will you help other scouts avoid this mistake?" Questions like that. Is it reasonable to tell the scout to start over on rank advancement he can't prove he did? It's not reasonable to tell the scout. It *is* very reasonable to ask him, "What should we do in this situation?" If he tells you to trust him, he's sure he did each req., then take him at his word. If he thinks he should demonstrate the requirement he doesn't remember doing, set up a way that he can do so quickly.

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It is religious division which creates suicide bombers (of the 9/11 like), murder and violence against those "different," racism, sexism, and more And here I thought it was rampant materialism and imperial secularism .... Pack, problem is that as hard as Buddhists tell me they don't believe in God (because they think it means something Jewish or Christian), they act like they believe in God in the original sense of the word.

compromise and cross-over the younger boys in February. That gives the AOL boys a chance to contribute to the life of the den. Meanwhile your troop (and any other for that matter) can invite them to activities. That way they can keep in touch with the two 5th graders who would have moved up. Best of both worlds! (This also helps get adults acclimated to your troop's culture before the date of transfer.) The boys who haven't earned AOL by Febrruary, have the option of delaying crossover until they've completed those last couple of requirements, or moving up straightaway. Sometimes, when a boy sees his buddies getting awards and attention he "snaps to" and catches up quickly.

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Now another caveat, Our local council no longer requires a tour plan unless the outing is high adventure or out of council......So take the patrol to the local state park for a camp out no tour plan needed, as a result no training is needed. Ours is just the opposite! We were supposed to file a TP if we gathered anywhere other than our regular meeting place. I balked. (Do you know how many times Venturers go out for a cup of coffee or a campfire in someone's back yard?)

I thought that Cub Scouts was supposed to be a family oriented program. Thats why you need a parent/guradian on camping trip Yeah, me too. Until one year at cub resident camp this school bus pulls up by our campsite and out stream a couple dozen boys followed by two gentlemen from an inner-city pack! None of the boys were their kids. In their neighborhood you don't get the single moms to come camping, and dads are no where to be found. Period. So, these two gentlemen (one in his 50s, one in his 20s) stepped up. These guys commanded respect from the boys, who all-in-all were really great kids. It was a pleasure to share a campsite with them. Deep down, I wondered if I were in the same position in my community, would I step up like they did? So sure, we can talk about family-oriented vs. boy-oriented journey vs. young co-ed journey 'till we're blue in the face. But, no matter what, we adapt to the situation. The ones who adapt best deserve the prestige. And there's no way anyone can tell that by the color of the epaulet.

I've always thought the scribe patch was for the troop position, but I don't see a problem if the troop wants someone from each patrol to wear the patch! (I could see it now "Scribes, submit your patrol activity reports by end of meeting!") I would make the effort to find out the troop's convention from the SM. My bottom line: if you're doing the work, wear the patch.

Confession: In my troop, I am the uniform police. If you've got a uniform, I'll make sure you've got the patches right and ask your boy where his khaki pants are. If there's a problem, I'll help you fix it. If PLC ten years ago defined the troop uniform as no-necker, I help carry that forward in time until a PLC wants to reconsider that decision. Why? Because on one level boys want to look sharp. They also like tradition. Some also like when a fellow scout's sister comes up and asks how they got a particular patch! In as much as it's fun, I'll support it.

Cub leaders definitely have the warmest spot in my heart! When it comes to the little Gompers, I'm like a grandparent I'll wind them up, but hand them off before they wear me down. Unless you had a boy-led den where you advised the Denner on planning a program, assigning one boy to get the supplies, another to teach the craft, another for opening, cleanup, etc ... While you sat back and drank your coffee, then your work as a cub leader definitely does not compare to a Boy Scout or Venturing leader. In some ways it's much more demanding. The hard part in scouting is getting the right people the right jobs at the right time. M2C, you have no idea how I wish former cub moms would be willing to come camping with my crew. Right now, I am trying to line up chaperones for two upcoming hiking weekends; otherwise it's a no-go for a couple of young women.