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I meant to thumbs-up @@Sentinel947, but slipped. However, there is also FedEx. (Yes, we did that with one boy.) Although, if it were one of my vacations, that wouldn't work either. Call the SM and see if that is at all possible. Maybe have him Skype in on the conference with the ASM.

Thanks for the memory. When son #1's den crossed over, one of the dad's was proud to share his new "Taj Mahal" of a tent with another dad and I. Not my style, but given our general excitement and pride that our boys were all on their own, I agreed to join them. The other dad was concerned about the low temps that night, so I explained how I usually stripped down to my skivvies to warm my bag a little more quickly. The guy said he'd give it a shot. Well, between the tent owner and I, his poor fellow got the stereo effect of alternating snores! Sure the tent owner was woke up by me snoring once, and I by him a little later, but for the guy in the middle, it was near continuous. Finally, at some wee hour, he shouts "I'm sick of this {insert not fit for scouter expletive here}!" And sits up! However, forgetting he was all but naked, exposes himself to near-freezing air. In a futile huff, he slams himself back on the ground and throws the bag over his head. He somehow managed to endure the stereo barely-suppressed snickers from tent-owner and I until wake up time.

Or as we explain to such scouts, he owes the SM/ASMs a party. He better not wait until 21 to host it, because the price of fine liquor ain't getting any lower!

Sounds like lots of regional variations. The girls in our district have it tough (the reporting phase being definitely most challenging part of the Gold), but not unobtainable. Certainly our female venturers who are in the GSUSA do fine with it. Their connections to BSA are no way an impediment. In fact, those connections increase the volunteer pool for the project itself. Then again, most of our events include open invites to Girl Scouts from he boots-on-the ground. So, any such bias from a professional would get zero traction around here.

I would peg it at $500, for a boy who wants a new uniform, summer camp, ten weekends away, and literature. If you're not getting equipment donations ad $200 for everything from boots to pack. Nice round numbers. Maybe in the high side. But if scouts and donors know that going in, they can work with it instead of being blindsided at every event.

?? I'm sorry. Did I convey that I was worried? The plan is that BSA, Scouts Canada, and Scouts Mexico (A.C. in Spanish) will host it together.

As do I. Furthermore, I'd question the righteousness of anyone who is blind to a person who is indeed a practicing first class scout. There are people who are qualified to take their mates hiking and camping independently ... and people who are not. It's obviously not just skills. Track record matters. So, I have this small number of youth associates who come to me with plans for outings. I've seen them demonstrate all of the skills a citizen-camper should have, I've seen them treat their fellows with remarkable ethics and morals. The plans are good. Do I give them the go-ahead? Or, do I only do so for those moral, competent, and prepared associates who have been awarded the proper oval? If someone like me is looking for something other than that oval, what does that tell us about the value of the patch?

I couldn't agree more. So what do you do after you see a 14 year-old become all that over a period of 3 to 6 months? I say to him/her, "You've become a 1st class scout. Can't give you a patch for it. But it's right there under your skin."

@@Eagledad, I don't want to say your situation is peculiar ... But when my daughter was in OK, she had a very hard time finding women to hike and camp with her. Some places have women who are more 'kept' than others. You are the only person who I've heard say that training had to become more rudimentary upon including the gals. Now I'll admit Mrs. Q had a lot of getting used to when I planned the vacation. (But a full breakfast out of a cast iron skillet made up for a lot of that.) But 'round here we have quite a few gals with no qualms about the cold, hard ground. Our male trainees can be just as much, if not more, squeamish. I'm constantly breaking in one or two new dads. I suspect the problem is only going to get worse, unless a few of these immigrant families join up and show us how it's done. @Anklyus I agree, "because we can" can't be the motivation. But, I think there are "because we must" motivations that may come to the fore after North American scouts work together to host the world jamboree before decade's end.

Don't give up on account of us five crumudgeons! Something that doesn't make sense to us generalists might resonate with a specific audience. In fact, there may be folks who don't post about particular HA bases here because many of the replies will be way off base. I'm not sure how you can find out for sure if there's a niche among WB readers except to have your friend open he forum and see what comes of it. Best case scenario, a few new readers get drawn to your friends site, worst case: there's now a tidy bin for existing WB fans who want to talk Philmont. For my part, I find it refreshing to be able to type those initials and not be referring to Woodbadge.

Well, the answer to that is simply a belief that the CO has better things to do with those assets than you do. Just like most scouters believe the best thing we can do for kids is provide them a well rounded outdoor program, others believe quite the opposite. In this case the pastor believes that someone can produce something better with the church's resources. And/or he believes that you are not that someone. So, you have got confirmation that there will be a liquidation?

And, although 20,000 sounds like a big number, every year millions of youth-weeks are spent hiking and camping everywhere else. Tagging this and other similar topics "Philmont" should be sufficient to distinguish this location from all of the other equally astounding locations for big-ticket scouting.

Obviously "we" don't. The vast majority of scouters, such as yourself, don't. The vast majority of BSA and GS/USA parents don't. The vast majority of venturers, for varying reasons, don't. Same thing for ageist policies. The reason they were put in place was because very few people saw the value of them strictly representing accomplishment vs. deadlines. However, you mention the HONOR of a rank. Well if THERE ARE FIRST CLASS SCOUTS (concept, not patch) BEING DENIED the opportunity of being recognized as such, not merely inconvenienced, but flat-out told "no," what honor is the 1st Class Rank? There are two ways of watering awards down. The first is giving them to folks who haven't mastered the skills the award should represent. The second is by withholding them from folks who represent the award quite well. I am glad for every venturer who is able and still works toward his Eagle. However, the fact that the majority of venturers don't even care about being on the trail to Eagle or joining O/A (especially if their girl friends aren't welcome in it) or other Boy Scout "honors" speaks volumes to their value.

That's an absurd statement. The people who ask questions like this are the ones who I want to lead my youth on the designated weekend. Not knowing the stream's location, we have no way of knowing if it even is carrying high water. Thanks to internet guages, we sometimes can look it up, but even so, we have no way of knowing its high-water properties on a given day. Furthermore, even knowing the stream, one would have no way of predicting if it will even have high water 4 days out. But gathering data and learning what to ask for from rangers and outfitters on the go/no-go day (usually 36 hours in advance of launch, but sometimes right up to that morning) enables an accurate assessment. Props to @@mashmaster for wanting to learn what to look for. Nowadays, cancelling a trip on what would be an otherwise good day puts a youth at risk of getting injured severely while playing PoGo. So Mash, keep an open mind, but have a plan B (maybe even a plan C) ready for the boys in case that funny feeling you're having does match the hydrology.

The +1 was for your observation of DEs. Your dismissiveness of Beav ... Well you're behaving just like that pastor, wanting to remove rather than engage aren't you? You're more than welcome to dig the hole deeper. But I strongly suggest that if you want fruitful ideas, act on any reasonable suggestions and ignore unreasonable ones. Now, DE's may be young, but they are not unsupervised. Have you called him? I can't imagine him being unwilling to find a new CO for you. The job practically gets payed by the new unit. If not him, there may be his director of field service and certainly will be the scout executive. As @@Stosh mentioned, the pastor should not be acting unilaterally, although he may be doing so contrary to his profession. Have you actually talked with the executive officer and charter organization representative?

Well "dead" is quite the word for it. I prefer "inactive".My crew was a reactivation of a unit that appeared from time to time, but couldn't sustain itself. Unless I stumble upon a half dozen committed youth, mine will soon go inactive. A crew needs three things IMHO: 1. A CO who is enthused about their presence. 2. A quirky scouter foolish enough volunteer as an advisor (and a few scouters willing to come to his/her aid. 3. A group of youth who love each other and who see venturing as a way to extend their time together. None of those come automatic. It takes a lot of stirring of coals.

Depends on training. In general, I wouldn't put my scouts (who've only canoed flatwater, and never for more than an hour or so) on anything beyond class I.

Paper tiger. Accommodations could be made for any youth who are first class (concept, not patch) if the demand was there. The bottom line is that too few scouters (be they in or out of venturing), parents, or male or female youth, have any interest in girls earning any award with "Eagle" on the name. If you could find 10,000 girls wanting to register if they could just make a run for Eagle in the next three years, you bet the requirements would be changed instantly.

For clarification, no girl in my crew was ever interested in a MB. But I have met those who were. The pressure to maintain the distinction comes from two sides. Many venturers want to be more than "Boy Scouts for girls". For example, I suggested that the names for the revised venturing awards (which were previously Bronze, Gold, and Silver) be renamed "Star Venturer", "Life Venturer", "Eagle Venturer" -- after all there's an Eagle on on the highest award in venturing. That got zero traction. Similarly, I have no sense that BSA and GS/USA cultures will mix on a national level. If the venturing membership continues to shrink, there is no indication that more American youth will be served by further merger. It falls upon independent scouting organizations, like BPSA, to prove that inclusive membership policies will lead to more youth being served better than what we have with the traditional American model.

Remote psychiatric diagnoses are flawed in many ways (as I'm comparing family history reports with actual clinical interviews). The differentiation between Asperger's syndrome and Antisocial Personality is certainly the case. Regardless, the SM is probably no social worker. He just needs how far to adjust the bar for each boy. Then he can read up on how to modify trail to First Class requirements. If a kid is gonna die trying to swim, SM needs to know before they head to the pool. If he's severely dyslexic, SM needs to know before the boy is stuck reading a script for a CoH. If he's colorblind to particular colors, SM needs to find color-substituted maps before sending him and his patrol off on land-navigation. In all those cases, the SM sits with the PL and explains the situation as best he can and makes sure the SPL/PL understands the fine line between helping and embarrassing a scout. This is no different. Don't need a diagnosis. Need to know what hasn't worked, what has worked, and what could be done differently next time. @@UncleP's monthly feedback to the SM provides this ... at least until the boy starts trusting his patrol enough to interact with them. My observation: boys can be pretty flexible, yet firm when necessary, once they understand that someone isn't "wired" like them. Most scouts rise to that challenge. But, they can give up on the first or second overture if they don't get this. The advantage for the other scouts? Once they figure this out with a few "tough ones" they learn that other seemingly normal boys may also need the same kind of persistence in one or more areas of life.

One thing about the awards and recognition program in venturing, such as it is: The one venturer in my crew who worked on an award (Religious Bronze), was thrilled to not have to muck about earning patches for "every little thing" like her younger sister was doing in girl scouts. Truth is, GS/USA, for it's older scouts, also moves away from a badge-based model to a personal growth model for it's Bronze, Silver, and Gold awards. As a counter-point to my venturers. There are young women who wish they could officially be awarded merit badges. I guess if yours is a heavily BSA family, those little round patches carry substantial value. I guess one could think of our modern Eagle scout requirements as an amalgam personal growth challenges (service project, positions of responsibility) and discrete discovery challenges (merit badges) for the sake of today's youth. Or, perhaps, it was to simply give older boys some more "serious" things to work towards.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing.aspxis the official line on venturing. Youth may join at age 14, or if they graduated from 8th grade they may join at age 13. The limiting of crews to boys or girls really boils down to the availability of male and female adult leaders. I must say, at this age very few youth are interested in awards. They are interested in nationally recognized certifications (e.g. lifeguard, wilderness first aid, EMT, jr. .NRA ...). But, that interest depends on the crew you land in. The best thing to do is find out about crews in your area, talk to some venturers, and see how they operate. In the mean time, you may want to look up American Heritage Girls.

I guess scouting provides a little "kicking around by life" service to the boys. But, just like soccer balls, the wrong kick will send them out of the game! Learning to work with others is a huge challenge most days. Hopefully he'll come around to reaping the benefits of doing so with his patrol.

Now that we merged. Troop adult registrations come out of the troop budget. The real cost to adults is keeping up with training. Which they pay in their own time/internet fees. Crew, everyone - adult or youth - pays their respective share of registration fees. Again, this pales in comparison to time spent getting trained.

Troop: dues (about $100 per scout, can't remember adults) popcorn (if anyone wishes), car wash, and spaghetti dinner. I honestly don't memorize the treasurer's reports but our budget is a few thousand, and the dinner is our largest income, dues and car wash tied for second, popcorn a distant third. Crew: occasional generous contribution. Otherwise everything is paid by the youth or their parents a la carte. So, we try to budget each event on a break-even basis (plus maybe a little to cover rechartering fees).