Mike F

I was contingent leader for 2 crews in Boundary Waters in 2003 and 3 crews at Philmont in 2004. Learned lots of lessons. Biggest one is the importance of working as crews prior to trip. We form crews that function much like patrols during the build-up before the trip. Guys elect a Crew Leader. In many ways, he functions as a PL, but all members of the crews maintain their current status in the troop and regular troop leadership positions, too. Gotta be clear - first priority is supporting the troop. We also made an issue out of only allowing active members of the troop to participate in th

Good comments, all! We have attendance requirements in writing for the successful completion of a POR. Not rigidly held to without exception, but the expectation is clear, so SM conf is focused. Guys are told to consider outside commitments before accepting a position. Something we try to make clear to all leaders, but especially the PLs -- they are still responsible for their patrol, even if they are unable to make a meeting or activity. They are supposed to first make sure their APL is ready and available to take over, then to notify the SPL about the substitution. PL remains respons

GKMom, I'm glad it finally worked out. Congratulations to you all for sticking to the high road and doing the right thing. I am, however, confused by "We still have to write the COR about why we're leaving the troop." Is this a real BSA requirement? I've never encountered it, but don't have much experience in this area. If this is not a BSA requirement, I'd give the COR a quick phone call and leave it at that. Your family has been through the wringer already and I seriously doubt the COR has been kept in the dark. Good luck in the new troop! -mike

Mich, Our PLC recently decided to bump up patrol size to 10-11. I know it's not optimal, but most of our guys are involved in many outside activities, so they are never all present. For what it's worth, if we have at least 2 guys from a patrol going on a campout, they camp as a patrol. We might group them together with another patrol if we're having a competition that would put them at a significant disadvantage, but only for the competition. For everything else, the patrols stay intact. Good luck! -mike

Eaglepacker, OA Trail Crew may be one of the best kept secrets in scouting! My first trip to Philmont was many moons ago, but I've heard it's an excellent program. And you can't beat the price of $150 for 2 weeks in the mountains - even if the first involves some hard work. The bonus is you'll be totally acclimated to the altitude and really ready to roll when you hit the trail the second week. I heard they still had a few openings at the beginning of this summer ('04), but I wouldn't wait too long to apply. If you're looking for options to get to Philmont and are ready for a

Sorry - I don't buy it. The solo scout's buddies are a few feet away - not 150 yards. You can hear through those walls like they're thin air. In bad weather, it's easy to check in by yelling between tents. (I've done it in raging storms. Key is to keep them fairly close.) About the only thing you can't do from the next tent over is kick your buddy. That being said, there are some things to consider when deciding who will be solo. - Older, more experienced camper preferred by a wide margin. (If there are none, reconsider tripling up - they're all small anyway.) - Don't solo a s

Eagledad, Right on! And write on!! But I think we blew right over Hops' question about how to get V Patrol started. Hops, There are Pros and Cons to Venture Patrol. Consider copying some of the info in here for your SM to read. Then discuss it with him and maybe others. You've heard from a few of us about pitfalls. If you move forward with plan to pull older guys into Venture Patrol, work proactively to head off the potential problems. You don't need a Venture Patrol to do high-adventure stuff. Good luck! -mike

They may work great for some, but Venture Patrols about killed our troop. Within about 3 years of their forming, the Venture guys were almost totally disengaged from the troop. Very few were willing to be leaders and almost none of them would attend troop campouts. Yes they usually had a high-adventure activity in the summer, but no activities except for a few shakedowns in the spring. We dissolved the Venture Patrols about 1.5 years ago and have seen significant improvement since we dispersed them into regular mixed-age patrols. The older guys are almost all active leaders and have

Bless you - we feel your pain. 1st problem - getting Webelos invited to Troop events. You might try giving their leader enough copies of the invitation/flyer to just give one to each Webelos scout. Better yet, have a Boy Scout visit a Webelos den meeting to give them flyers along with a personal invitation - convince them they are going to have fun. The flyers rarely get the young one's attention, but they will remember when a scout who is only a few years older than them comes to talk about Boy Scout adventures. 2nd Problem - chaotic pack meeting with no structure. I hope the de

We don't ban a lot: * Electronics (music or games) - but I did allow a scout to use music with headphones at bedtime on the last campout - he said he needed it to block out the noise and sleep. (Guess we didn't tire him out enough during the day! We can fix that!!) Like others, electronics OK in the car, but they stay there. * Sodas * Anything dangerous, illegal, or immoral. I've been on several cross-country trips with the older guys the last few years. I allow them to provide tapes/CDs to play on the stereo - with the warning that anything I decide is filthy trash will be confi

Troublemaker, Your concerns are right on. When a troop grows too big, the ability of the scouts to run the show is compromised. It's a conflict between letting all comers in to join the fun versus knowing somewhere in there the level of fun will be surpassed by chaos - or unacceptable degrees of adult intervention. Right now, your troop is attractive because it has a vibrant program that others want to be a part of. If you do nothing, the problem could become self-correcting that is if the program suffered and scouts started dropping out at a faster rate. Within a couple of year

For this case, I'm with the "let him go" crowd. Don't spend any additional energy trying to change his mind - just forget about it and go have fun. In fact, have so much fun that the other guys think he's crazy for deciding to quit after it's over. But I agree this sometimes isn't the answer. We had a problem with some similarities on a Philmont trek. From the beginning - 1.5 years before the trip - we made it clear in writing that Philmont was only for scouts who were actively involved in the troop program. We didn't set numerical limits but defined program as troop meetings and camp

Stephen, My hat's off to you. Other concerns and discussions seem petty. Prayers to you, the other diligent searchers, and Garrett's friends and family. -mike

Two observations Past - my hometown was hit by a hurricane in the early 60s. I was a Cub Scout at the time and was in awe of the Boy Scouts shown on the evening news helping to stop leaks in a dike. The Boy Scouts had been mobilized to help (along with every other able-bodied person). Present - there were some serious floods in our state last year and the cleanup effort was huge. I made dozens of phone calls, spoke to relief coordinators, shelters, etc. Nobody was willing to let the Scouts in to help if they were under 18. They were too afraid of liability. It's a shame - volun

Wilderness Medical Institute has become a part of the National Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS). http://www.nols.edu/wmi/ Lots of classes offered around the country. Don't seen any near you right now, but there's info on their site about sponsoring a class and bringing them in. They are a first class outfit that do this stuff full-time. -mike(This message has been edited by Mike F)

muckraker, Skills drills alone will get old after a while. The idea of a competition campout is a really good one. Have some fun, win some totems for the patrol flags, leave enough time for instruction in weaker areas. I know your SPL/PLC will be in charge, but it doesn't hurt to prime the pump a bit with some seed ideas. John D's comment about making things more "true to life" led me down a different path. Here's a few ideas First Aid For a meeting night. Tell the guys we'll be practicing first aid at next week's meeting. (Groans...) Have them bring all the standar

ScoutDad, They're right - the 2-yrs clause is to ensure they've been actively camping lately (i.e., within the last 2 years). This clause is in there because too many scouts drop off on the camping as they get older and OA membership is for "honor campers." Scoutldr's right, too. They aren't actually in competion with each other - there are no limits to the number of candidates each scout can vote for - each is supposed to be evaluated based on their own qualifications as a scout. But as a member of our local Chapter Election Team, I can tell you it's human nature to compare and i

Zippie, Good ideas already. I'd start out with a brief description of the program. Be sure to include things like citizenship, service, and duty to God. I wouldn't worry about slide show (unless you really like doing that), but would bring a scrap book or photo album with pictures of the kids in action. One other thought - how many guys in the den are members of your church? How many are not members of any church? For many scouts, scout meetings in a church are the first time they ever set foot in one. Once they learn it's a fun (not scary) place and some of their buddies invit

We have a large troop and a new SPL. Troop has had long-standing problem with continued talking and noise during announcements, etc. SPL tried a new tactic this week - he kept track of all the wasted time and made them all sit perfectly quiet for the same amount of time before the closing. (Fortunately, it was only a minute or so.) He got lots of positive feedback in post-PLC. I'm making him a copy of this thread to pass on some of the other great ideas y'all had. -mike

Update After much effort, our scout with disabilities was able to complete his Philmont trek. He and his crew of fellow 14-yr olds completed itinerary #5. We were able to get his Doctor Dad father on the crew to assist him. How did it go? It was a struggle for all involved. After working out for a couple more months, the physical limitations were reduced, and he was physically able to pretty much keep up with the others. On the downside, he had some outrageous (and profane) outbursts and several of the members of this younger crew were right at the edge of their capability, so

Eagle Foot, I feel your pain, but don't think you can force dads/sons from getting together in small groups to do things together outside of troop activities. Fishing MB doesn't require scout to catch 3 fish at scout activity - only says to catch 3 fish, so you can't deny them the applicability of all activities to advancement. Might be able to deny the nights of camping if your troop disallows family camping toward Camping MB, etc., (but that's another long argument). Also might be able to disallow Tend-1stClass requirements depending on your troop's policy toward who has signature au

Biggest blow-up I've ever had with a parent was over this requirement. Week after week this Scout would come to the meeting a little more overweight and tell us that he hadn't done any practicing on his own since the last meeting. So week after week we would put him through the paces - and he continued to get worse by every measure. After about 2 months, the dad confronted me and demanded signoff. I explained situation and refused to sign - scout wasn't making any effort to show improvement. Unfortunately, dad was also CC. He waited until I was out of town for a couple of weeks, then rus

I gotta agree with some of the last posters - this water hole is poisoned - time to leave, while reporting it's condition so others might be warned away. Don't sweat the move. People change jobs every few years (on average) - it's time to learn another life lesson/skill. Don't dwell on "the way they did things back in the old troop" - just quietly enjoy the fresh air.

Congrats, Hops!

hotdesk, There's room for lots of discussion - you need to do some homework on Northern Tier website, etc. Lunch - can't beat small plastic jar of peanut butter and bagels. Yes, the jar is bulky trash, but packs a lot of calories and nutrition into small volume. Personal equipment - military jungle boots, mosquito head net, 100% DEET, wide-brimmed hat, nylon shorts (with mesh liner), polypropelene shirt, long-sleeve nylon shirt. Last, but not least, good rain gear - you'll use it every day. (Not poncho - rain coat or jacket.) Fishing - red/white "daredevil" spoons - lots of