Mike F

2 quick thoughts: 1. You're a very young unit with almost no youth with leadership experience. When they've never seen it modeled, it's hard for them to grasp. It sounds like the expectations might be too high for this leader in this situation at this time. I've found when scouts get pushed into unfamiliar territory (expectations), they can often respond with more inaction (paralysis) than wrong action (mistakes). When the fear of making a mistake gets overwhelming, they stop cold and give you blank looks. If this might be the case, I recommend taking back more of the planning and concent

In the troops I have served, only the troop-level positions were used for POR credit for advancement. But I have found the patrol-level positions to be an excellent training ground for beginning leaders to learn and grow. The scouts are all encouraged to seize these opportunities to show their buddies they are ready, willing, and able to handle more responsibility on the next cycle. The ones who do so have always moved up quickly. -mike

We used almost exactly the method described by Beavah about 3 years ago. There were some rocky stretches in the trail, but it has worked great. The guys have really learned how to lead - starting in the patrol when the PL and older members take on the responsibility of bringing up the new guys. That's a whole lot more responsibility than just being the "phone call guy" with a bunch of same-age peers. Real world results: - SPLs with enhanced experience as PL of mixed group have been much stronger and effective. - Same for all other senior leadership positions. - Campout participation

Blazer, Lots of good advice in here - heed it carefully. One of our troops had similar growth spurt - went from about 50 to 135 in 5 years. They couldn't handle it and the program suffered greatly. They were boy-run, simply exceeded the boy's ability to handle it, and the adults didn't know how to get that balance right. Adults quickly took over most aspects of the program with SPL mostly just calling for opening and closing ceremony. New SM tried to force it back to boy-run too quickly. Membership now falling to about 65 and there are lots of hard feelings. A couple of other local troop

Is it really necessary that all troops be the same? I support two troops. One is up-front with their preferrence that campouts be males-only and the other has a lot of moms on campouts. They are both delivering an excellent scouting program. In our community, there is certainly room for both. We also have troops with a strong emphasis on high adventure and others who work hard on merit badges and advancement. Some troops work hard on fund raising all year so they can go to far-off summer camps in the mountains and some are more bare bones - sticking to local camps, state parks, and ranches.

We did this a couple of years ago - mystery meat was rabbit. Guys really enjoyed it. (Stewing worked better than grilling....) Thanks for the reminder - it's time to dust that one off again! Wonder what kind of exotic meat we can find at the big market downtown!! -mike

Baden, RE: "I may be getting a little old to do the High Adventure thing" Ha - perish the thought - this is what keeps us young! I met a SM near Louisa Falls a few years ago that was in his 60s and had been taking crews there every year for over 20 years. My new hero, for sure!! After you get a good shower and a few good meals under your belt, I'll see you out on the trail next summer! -mike

Prayers are with you all. -mike

It has been about 6-7 months since I wrote those words. Since this is a work in progress, a few words on status: SPL/ASPL have continued to eat with adults and it's going great. Gives us a little more time to work with them informally and keeps them out of the way of younger PLs as they lead their patrols. Competition at campouts to see which patrol wins bragging rights (AKA, "The Golden Spoon") is fierce. Guys are cooking more and having fun. (Most of the time....) Since SPL/ASPL and SM/ASMs are all judges, we have an excuse to check in on cooking in progress. We are on the lookout for

JB, This isn't exactly what you were looking for, but might be helpful. Our council has an annual high-adventure rally that has become very good. They review all of the tour requests on file every year and invite troops with unique, interesting trips to come set up a simple booth to share their experience and spread the word. They always have picture boards and handouts to describe what they did and how they did it. Some have videos or slideshows running. There are always some groups representing BSA's high adventure bases - telling about their experience there. These are very

In the units I serve, the SM makes the call and camping means nights outdoors - no cabins, no ships, etc. I thought a bit about giving the PLC an opportunity to consider this one, but they have their plate more than full already and I wouldn't want to distract them from their primary responsibilities. -mike

I thought I knew a lot about this subject, but have learned some new stuff tonight. John-in-KC - I've never heard about COR's authority to tell Commish to butt out of something like this and want to know more. Is this documented somewhere? What if parents/scout appeal to council and national? Will COR's position still hold weight? Thanks! -mike

Bill, Sounds like your son's troop uses mixed age patrols right from the beginning. This isn't necessarily bad at all. With a little luck, they have a spirit of welcoming the new guys like younger brothers and your son will benefit from working and learning from older guys who already know the ropes. It's normal for the older, more experienced guys to be the leaders and, indeed, it's preferable. Can you imagine the chaos if one of the brand new guys was put in charge of a group (patrol) containing several boys with several years of experience? That would be a very challenging leadership posi

In my son's troop, you have to be 1st Class to carry a sheath knife and the boy's know that right will be revoked at the first hint of misuse. In 13 years, no scout has lost the right to carry and use his sheath knife. It is worth noting, in those 13 years, we've never had a significant injury from sheath knives, but we certainly cannot say the same for folding knives, axes, and saws. The expectations are high and the boys meet them consistently. It does draw some wide-eyes and sputtering comments from other scout leaders who don't understand the rules. -mike

Its Me, Most of us are borderline rabid about scouting, but I expect most of us have had similar thoughts at some time. And I know almost all of us have had to work with our boys when they get to about 13-14 and their enthusiasm starts to sag. Every boy is different and has to make his own choices. (Families, too.) My oldest boy (19) is a gifted athlete with a passion for basketball and love of baseball, soccer, and about anything else. It was a struggle for a few years as he balanced competitive sports, advanced academics, and scouts. As he progressed into high school and the comp

Campcrafter, I was in a similar situation with my oldest son's first troop. I stayed quiet and observed for the first few months. After studying the handbooks (SM, SPL, PL), I was certain we were missing major components of the BSA program and started working to help others understand so we could change. My efforts were fruitless and the SM made it clear my assistance was not desired, so I backed off. My son's entire Webelos den had joined same troop and they seemed to be doing OK. After a year, my son announced he was done. I convinced him to go check out some other troops, we found a bette

Vigil-Hiker, I forgot to mention - I liked your comment about outgoing SPL sticking around to help mentor the new SPL. We made that a requirement for the job a couple of years ago - official part of the SPL job is helping the new SPL for a couple of months to smooth the transition. It has been working great. Not only do the former SPLs not disappear overnight, they have all been sticking around, helping with troop leader training, and even visiting when they're home from college. I strongly encourage everyone to consider pushing this expectation. Let the former SPLs know they are valued l

Vigil-Hiker, The rules have changed some in the last 20 years. ASPL now is selected by SPL with a sanity check from SM to make sure SPL is not just selecting his buddy. Same holds for almost all troop-level positions of responsibility. This is spelled out in the SPL and SM handbooks. The only positions determined by election in any way are SPL and PL. msnowman, The SM Handbook specifically mentions age and rank as a couple of things that can be considered if a troop decides to set requirements for positions. This really should be done by the PLC if things are working right. But the S

My rule is I'll play anything they want, but if it's trash (as defined by foul language on inappropriate lyrics), it goes in the first trash available. The first time I used this rule was on 2-day drive to ski trip. After listening to their "stuff" for about 5 hours, I declared it time to introduce them to an ancient heavy metal cassette of mine that I hadn't listened to in 20 years. To my extreme embarrassment, out pops the definition of foul language and out comes the cassette. At the next gas stop, I made sure they saw me toss it in the trash. Nobody said a word, but their eyes wer

Wow hard list! 1. Philmont 75 completing Kit Carson Man program (last year before it became Rayado Man), which included a 1-day gut-buster from Dan Beard (at the northern tip) to Line Camp (below Abreau on the southern border). 2. OA Vigil Honor 76 3. #1 sons Eagle 05 Runners up: - Watching #1 son excel as Crew Chief at Philmont in 04 after struggling in same job at BWCA in 03. - Working with a lad for several years who was straying into serious trouble, convincing him to strive for his last leadership position, observing a miraculous change as he blossomed, and spea

Anne, This might not be the answer you're looking for, but we encourage scouts to buy tents of their own. We have about 4 Eureka troop tents they can borrow, if required, but most of the boys are proud to have their own and they definitely take better care of them. For beginner scouts, a cheap tent from local sports discount store will serve them fine for a few years. As they get older (and bigger), we encourage the parents to consider a good tent for Christmas and birthday gifts. In early November, we send an email to parents with list of suggestions and links to online discounters.

I think rj hit on the key - service. Think Brotherhood of Cheerful Service. They don't grow in brotherhood if they're not working together on something meaningful that they can take pride in. Consider some options: Chapter service project to clean up local park, maintain trails, build a bridge, etc. Get out the word through SM Roundtable, phone calls, emails, etc. to your local Chapter OA members. "Calling all Arrowmen! Our park needs your help!! Etc." First turnout will probably not be huge, but make it fun and meaningful, and you'll get more the next time as word spreads. If no

karent, First - Welcome to the virtual campfire!! There's lots to learn in here!!! Merit Badge requirements must be met to the letter - no more and no less. See specific references in discussion on adding requirements: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=127606 There is some allowance for substituting some required MBs for Eagle, but those are usually based on a physical inability to complete the requirements and not on a scout with learning disabilities who has a more difficult time completing them. Hopefully one of my fellow forum addicts with refere

OneHour, One of my sons was there, too. Similar report, although they were lucky enough to fly in a 4-person Cessna and he thought that was "pretty cool." I have a problem with this activity, though. My son described the day as sitting for hours in a big hangar listening to briefings, going on the flight, then receiving signed Aviation Merit Badge cards at the end of the day. Upon reviewing the requirements for the merit badge (http://meritbadge.com/mb/025.htm), I see lots of requirements that say explain, define, demonstrate, etc., but none that say to just sit in a building with 600 othe

Concur with OGE. BOR is not a retest - just a review to make sure everything was done. For POR, it's appropriate to ask questions about what they did, what was the hardest, what they learned, etc. For skills, it's appropriate to ask how they learned about the knots, lashings, etc., but not to hand them ropes and ask for demonstration. For campsite gadget mentioned earlier, it's appropriate to ask them what they made. Then continue asking what did you use it for, did you find it useful, etc.? Have you made another one or something like it since you passed the requirement? You said you fo