BadenP

Wait a minute John! The tree octopus is alive and well in the Hoh Rainforest of Washington. It has been known to drop onto unsuspecting hikers from its tree perch, attach to their head and probe the skull with one of its tentacles. The park service issues special helmets to wear that seem to repel the creatures, most of the time. These tree octopi are known to be voracious predators, able to issue a high pitch blood curdling scream that sends all other creatures into a panic flight. Missing hikers up to recently were thought to be victims of a Sasquatch but now we know it is the dreaded tree octopi who is responsible.

Dean, you make some good arguments as to why the popcorn at its current price range is so difficult to move it is just NOT competitive with store brands whether or not part of it goes to the scouts. Funny you mentioned the tins because when we did sell popcorn we moved more tins than boxes, people collected them and others said they were great for storing things, others said they were a nice momento of scouting, so go figure. I use them myself for my patch collection. Oh well to each their own, lol.

Well said Veni, look if you were starting a brand new troop from scratch and you had say 30 boys of various ages show up to the first meeting with no prior scouting what do you think would make this group bond as a patrol and a troop the fastest? If your answer is mixed patrols you win the prize, and why because as Veni said age based patrols would result in the older boys dominating the younger ones in competitions and other activities. If you mix them then each patrol has to learn to work as a team to be competitive as well as let each boy show off his natural leadership skills as the patrols plan for each activity. In my six years as a scoutmaster we tried NSP's twice both times they lasted less than a couple of months before the boys begged to be split up into the other patrols. As you can tell I am a big fan of mixed patrols because in my experience it worked the best in bonding the troop and it was what the BOYS really wanted. Sometimes we adult leaders are guilty of leaving the "boy" out of boy scouts in the running of our troops, bad mistake.

The overpriced popcorn is indeed a problem in successful fundraising in our area so at roundtable we discussed alternatives one night and now many of us have three different fundraisers for different times of the year, do one or all three. The council has stopped trying to push popcorn, finally, since sales have plummeted in the last 5 years.

I agree, many crossover adult leaders from Cubs should have to attend a training twice as long as a new volunteer just to deprogram them from all the stuff they learned in cub trainings.

Just as long as they keep Thin Mints and Samoas I will be happy!

Thomas I'll tell you what, it can and does work both ways, it all depends on your boys and how much control they have in running the troop vs an adult run troop. As a kid in my troop we had 12 new scouts join the same time. We were split into groups of 3 and integrated into the four exsisting patrols, personally speaking it was great for me I think I learned much faster than if I had been in an all tenderfoot patrol. The older scouts treated us like anyone else in the patrol and we were expected to pull our weight, within our skill level, just like anyone else. I think we matured and advanced faster as well with the older scouts acting like our mentors. As an adult ASM and later SM we did it both ways and both styles worked well. As to what works better that depends on your boys and their leadership abilities and each boy clearly understanding what is expected. My own personal take, when we did new scout patrols there seemed to be much more adult control and in mixed patrols more boy controlled and led. Whatever you and the boys choose to do as long as your program is fun, activity filled,and allows the boys to learn scoutcraft, leadership, and citizenship your troop will succeed. Good Luck.

I agree with Eamonns two posts on what could be termed as fiscal mismanagement by councils, regional, and national for all of their events. Over the years I have watched fees get raised at an alarming rate, way beyond the increase in program costs, and at the same time watch camp after camp be sold to help pay for this fiscal mismanagement by the so called scouting professionals, all the way up to the CSE. It is not like the volunteers and scouts are getting any more value for their money, in most cases it is a whole lot less. At the rate they are going the BSA program will eventually price itself out of exsistence. That is what happens in the business world, a company starts off strong then starts cutting back on the quality of their product and raises their prices, they lose their patronage and go under in our free market economy. What makes the BSA think it is immune from the same thing happening to them.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Bottomline it depends on who your SE is(I had 3 different SE's) when I was a DE we were all expected to clear at least 25% profit from every district activity, except in the case of rare unexpected situations or expenses.

Why wasn't this thread closed a long time ago from this troll, OGE are you slacking off again, lol?

Alabama A COR/CC is a very common occurance in many units, one reason is that it provides a person who is connected with the CO and has to be actively involved with the unit. There really is no power involved here, technically the COR is the only one with any real power to remove any scouter in their unit not doing their job. Since many COR's, as others have stated are paper only, hands off, and uninvolved this actually leads to more problems when a crisis comes up in the unit, district or council. No scouter COR or anyone else should ever be on a power trip, if they are they should be removed. A solid well run committee should work like a team giving the CM,SM,or Advisor the help they need to deliver a quality program, that is their primary responsibility. Another good thing about having a COR/CC is when a problem does develop you can take immediate action without having to go to a COR who is uninvolved and doesn't really want to get too involved with the unit. Having a COR/CC gives your unit all the players and authority in place to make decisions and deal with any problems in an efficent and rapid manner. As a CC/COR myself I can tell you from personal experience that it really does benefit the unit to have this combined position, it is NOT a matter of power at all, and it never should be(This message has been edited by BadenP)(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Frank, the boy can learn to swim in the shallow end of any pool where all he has to do is stand up and not feel so threatened by the water, this will also help him conquer his fear of the water. This happened with one of my scouts when I was a SM years ago who literally cried if he even got near the pool but he learned and one day on his own swimmed out to the deep end to join the rest of the troop and his fear was gone. Later on he even got the swimming MB and became a BSA Lifeguard, go figure. If you don't push or force him but let him deal with it on his own time and in his own way he may just surprise you.

krier I too am now a COR/CC for my venturing crew so I understand your concern, but COR stands for Charter Organization Representative not Troop XYZ Representative your job is to represent the organization sponsoring your unit and to be a liason between them and your organization. Technically that means you are not a unit rep but a voting council member representing the CO. As the CC (committee chair) I also am a unit leader heading up the committee working with the crew advisors to help deliver a great program for the teens, so if you want a piece of both worlds you could also become the CC which links you to both the unit and CO. It has been hard for me to give up being the crew advisor, which I was for over 7 years and am now more in the background, however the advisors and teens are constantly asking me to go on trips with them which I love to do every so often. The current advisor and assoc. advisors were originally youth members of the crew when I was the advisor so we have a strong bond and history together that makes me still feel an integral part of the crew.

Calico Usually letting any district committe member go should be a joint decision of the Key3. A district commissioner does have the right to let a unit commisioner if they are not doing their job but these kind of decisions are usually made in a weekly Key 3 meeting.

bsafl Probably what your friend was thinking was on a Unit Charter the only dual registered position allowed is COR/CC. Your district or council position would be on a different charter so no problem. You guys do realize that even though the COR is considered a voting member of the council their primary registration is always on the Unit Charter.

Twocub Going all over the place once again and missing the target. Bottomline, the SM has the final say in the matter even with a doctors note. If he has any serious doubts about a scouts ability or condition for any activity he can tell him to sit this one out rather than letting a boy put himself in jeopardy. In this particular case I think the parents and the scout would have understood if the SM had made that decision. Basement- there will probably be no autopsy because I read or saw somewhere that the family are conservative/orthodox Jews who do not allow autopsies for religious reasons and are required to bury their dead within 24 hours.

Twocub Now you are just being melodramatic, as usual. If a SM has a 250lb 5'6" scout who he knows has some serious medical issues and takes him out for a 20 mile hike in the wilderness he better reconsider no matter what paper he has from an MD. Most doctor appointments these days last 10-15 minutes and because of patient loads many doctors are not as thorough as they might be. The kid goes in tells the doc he feels fine and needs a paper signed to go on a hike with his troop, unless he is experiencing some symptoms the doc will probably sign it. That still doesn't get the SM off the hook when he knows how rough a hike might be for a particular scout. It is not "second guessing" the doctor it is just using common sense, which more leaders like the one in Florida needed to do.

If anything this death in Florida proves that every SM needs to get to know his boys better before taking them on a long hike in remote wilderness areas. First, be honest with those boys who due to weight or medical history makes them a potentially serious risk for any trip and suggest ways they can get in shape and ready physically before even attempting this sort of trip. The SM who chooses to take high risk youth better make sure he has a trained medical professional with the proper equipment to handle any kind of emergency along. As was said here in other posts there is a potential risk in many boy scout activities which the boys and the parents need to understand upfront. All scout leaders can do is to be sure that they are as adequately prepared and trained to handle most any emergency as possible, however even with all the preparation there is no guarantee that something will not happen.

I feel too many pack leaders do the same activities over and over again mainly because they do not have to do any additional planning, get complaisant and lazy, and they can kind of coast for the year. The downside is that kind of program is that the boys get bored and leave. In packs where the leaders are energetic and try new things/activities the boys get excited as well and the packs grow in size and more parents are excited about pitching in to help. If all your pack activities are the same things repeated over and over, year to year you can bet you will lose boys and the parents of the boys you do keep will have little incentive to help out.

When I was a Webelos leader, way back in the late 80's, my boys wanted to build their own cars at the den meetings so their dads didn't have "all the fun". All I had were hand tools and an electric drill. I remember one year a boy designed his own car all by himself which was not much to look at for sure but at the derby with all these daddy designed super cars he literally wiped out the field with his car. The funny part was the dads looking over this boys car to see what he had done special to his car, and they just scratched their heads in disbelief. Anyway this boy got first place and a nice trophy and you never saw anyone so excited. Years later he invited me to his ECOH and on the memory table among all his scouting awards was that same derby car and trophy, he told me that that was one of the best moments he ever had in scouting. So I guess it isn't always flash and engineering that wins the prize.

Hawk What I see you doing is everytime someone gives you an answer you don't like you accuse them of treating you unscoutlike and insulting you. Instead of whining for no good reason phrase your questions in a way that you get to the heart of what you are asking, instead of droning on and on over nothing. As another poster has already stated you are not the moral compass for others on this forum, so quit trying to be.

Beav You hit the nail on the head, without an autopsy being performed, which apparently it is not, there is no way to conclusively prove the cause of death and the parents claims are for the most part speculation with no evidence for support. The time delay before the call for help becomes the only possible evidence of negligence.

First, make sure you have concrete evidence against a person before you go to others accusing her. You also have to give a lot more details if you want to get any further advice here.

Thanks Blanc That is indeed an interesting and detailed complaint which does show some negligence on the part of the scoutmasters. I am NO legal expert but in this day and age with the right jury and if all the facts in the complaint are true the BSA, the church and these two leaders will be the big losers financially. These two guys will probably lose their positions in scouting and their reputations will be ruined for a very long time in the troop, the church, and their community. The BSA will come across as the big villian allowing poorly trained adults to put kids in harms way. It will be interesting to see where this case goes.

Hawk You make my point exactly. Scouting is all about the kids and their achievements, not the adults. Even the kids do not wear ALL of their rank or POR or activity patches on their uniforms at the same time do they. So why do some adult scouters insist on wearing every knot, patch and pin on their uniforms for things they earned as a youth, Eagle knot being the one valid exception, or den leader, or scout leader when they are no longer in those positions if it isn't about themselves showing off to other scout leaders? Your military analogy is not a valid one here because the nature and structure of that organization is very different from scouting. Additionally the military is about developing and building a career path, which volunteer adult scouting clearly is not.(This message has been edited by BadenP)