BadenP

I think we ought to opt for a local option and allow the states to govern themselves for four years and put the federal government on a four year NON-Pay status, as they sure aren't doing anything for us now. All the candidates on both sides this election year are pathetic to say the least, and any of them will just give us 4 more years of the same ol bull. Or better yet just eliminate Homeland Security and put all that money into our economy to give it a jump start before we go in to a depression.

Hops It sounds to me that you let one article with dubious stats support an argument that pretty much has already been decided by current history as basically false. Stats can be made and skewed to support any position whether that position is sound or not. I am surprised that someone as young as yourself is already so jaded that you take the side of a very very small minority in this country and in the world.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Bob Just because someone follows a syllabus DOES NOT make them or the training they are giving to be of a high quality. You don't give a instructional book to a college student on neurosurgery and then tell them to go teach it to others. Good, sound and solid knowledge as well as experience is crucial to the success of any training or program, unfortunately most of the scouting leader trainings, as well as many of the sylabi are poorly written and pathetically delivered. A book is a guide it does not make a person a quality leader or a skilled leader, all bookwork and no hands on practicum is the main weakness in most scout leader training classes. All you have to do is ask the people in this forum.

Or to say it another way, one who sees the whole world as either black or White, and one who can think outside the box and is open to new ideas. BW is playing nice right now we will see how long that lasts.

Right on Wing nut, thats what our district did with their patch. We had a district necker that was quite a popular trade item at different scouting events as well as giving the boys and venturing girls a sense of pride in their district at council and regional events.

gold winger the depth of your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. You seem to know so little about so much.

Gee two things never to discuss together, politics and religion. Ok here goes, if you really read the teachings of the Mormon church you would see that Jesus was coceived by a sexual union of God and the Earth Mother, and that the years of Jesus growing up 12-30 he was supposedly in the New World preaching to the so called white Indians, which don't exsist anymore, since the red indians were considered spawn of Satan, as they also believe about blacks and asians . The gold tablets that their are no scriptural references to unlike the 10 Commandments or the writings of Paul are connoctions of the mind of a great con man named Joseph Smith. The LDS theology is so flawed and fictional that in no way can they claim to be Christian, and is little more than a sad cult who unsuccessfully declared war against the USA and lost it all in one battle in the 1870s. How can anyone who has even a basic understanding of Scripture declare the LDS to be Christian? While it is true that many of the Christian denominations have their faults, since they are all products of imperfect humans, the LDS doesn't even come close to the basic Christian beliefs. Romney is just pandering to the uneducated and uninformed. The LDS has a lot of political punch, look what its done to the BSA, they have their own seperate program because of monetary reasons. I do not envy the Republicans this year, Romney, Guiliani, Huckabee talk about selecting the lesser evil. THE LDS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS!!!

I feel that the Catholic Church, the BSA, and many school districts have done a deplorable job in seeing that these perv's are brought to justice, hiding evidence from authorities to protect themselves as well as the guilty, such as Cardinal Law did in Boston and why he flew off to Rome to spend the rest of his days hiding in disgrace. How many of you know that the Boston DA has issued a arrest warrant for conspiracy to serve Law if he ever sets foot in the USA again. The Grand Teton case Merlyn speaks of is a particularly damning case not only for the BSA but the Mormon Church who were co-conspirators in these criminal acts. These are just two of countless cases where the BSA and the CAtholic Church preach one thing but practice another, and both of these agencies need to be held accountable for destroying evidence and allowing these perv's continue their vile crimes on these kids. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE? Maybe its time to make an example by sending some of these top people to prison, a few scout executives, National officials, Bishops and Cardinals will send a veryclear message that these agencies straighten up their acts or all parties will be fully prosecuted, not just the ones committing the acts. Bring back the public stocks and let the public decide their fates. Both the BSA and the Catholic Church, and other organizations need to be made more accountable if thiese types of cases are ever to end.

Any type of ecumenical activity like this can only be a positive step to mutual understanding and respect. I applaud this district for their inventive approach for their youth that people of other religions or traditions are not enemies or inferior, rather just ordinary people dealing with issues of life like the rest of us. It's too bad that some of our top religious leaders, one in particular, doesn't seem to get that. At least these boys received a valuable experience they will benefit from for the rest of their lives. BRAVO!

I agree with you OGE the unit leaders have got to take some of the blame. I have always felt that too many units push out an Eagle at way too young of a age and they have not had the opportunity to mature in the responsibility. The BSA does absolutely no service to the 13 yr old boy pushed through an "Eagle Mill" troop, they fudge on the requirements to turn out as many Eagles as possible and most of the leaders have little to no formal training. Boy Scouts is about enjoying the experience and maturing at a reasonable pace that the boy can handle. Aside from the LDS scouting program we owe our youth a whole lot more than a race to a finish line, thats not what Baden Powell had in mind. Bad Eagles for the most part come out of bad troops with poor leadership and even poorer programs. If a troop is putting out many 13 yr old Eagles then that should send a big red flag warning to the council. Scout leaders always complain that they can't hold on to the older boys, well if your 13 yr olds are getting awarded their Eagle what is there for them to stay in for? Those leaders need to reevaluate their own program and training. Giving an Eagle Rank away to an immature boy does not make him a better citizen or scout nor does it give the BSA program any real credibility. Maybe it is time as our 100th Anniversay approaches for a reassessment of where we are now versus where we should be and what changes might need to be made in the program. Maybe a return to some of the basics would be a good place to start.

This is indeed an interesting issue concerning the distribution of contributions and the lack of accoutability. I wonder if BSA-National would be as open to an audit of their own books and the lack of accountability to its own volunteers and supporters here in the USA.

I think that Ed and Merlyn should be given their own personal private, secure, thread permanently, open only to them, where they can pontificate their own drivel and ban them from the rest of the threads. Those guys don't know when to give it a rest.

I bet it is either over the gay issue, religious principle, or coed scouting. Looks like there is a storm a brewing mateys!

In spite of the good intentions of a few individuals in this thread this entire argument is just ridiculous. Theologians, scientists, social scientists, and other experts have argued and debated these issues for centuries and have never found any common ground. Certainly a bunch of middle aged scouters with way too much time on their hands don't stand a chance of ever finding any solutions. If you guys put half this effort into your scouting then we would be far better off as an organization, unless, as I expect, most of you are not active in units anymore and can't find anything more constructive to do with your time. Using the Bible as a weapon to justify hate and prejudice just goes to show the ignorance of so many churchs out there and the incorrect and sinful message that they preach. The Bible is a gift to us from God about his love and living in peace and to show us the error of our ways, instead it seems we just keep repeating these same errors with every generation, and that is the true SIN!!!

First for OGE, you are beginning to sound more and more like Merlyn in this thread, lol, I hope you are not trying to bait Ed now or we are in for another long debate. Most schools do not allow any sort of Halloween celebration so your tax dollars are safe, but some clever teachers can get around that with talk on variations of All Hallows Eve, Day of the Dead type celebrations which have their origin in "pagan" times and are widespread among many cultures today Christian and non Christian. Just as long as they don't mention Halloween or even Harry Potter they can squeak by. Happy Halloween!!!

Here is the the saddest part of all to the reform Jews their kids never get to be scouts, even though they can join an outside unit, the Jew's like other traditions their faith and culture and community are inseperable, so who really is the loser here? THE KIDS. The bottom line here boys and girls whether you like it or not the BSA membership today is about 60% LDS and the National office will NEVER do anything to offend their largest chartered partner. Every policy National puts out regarding religion or ethics is pre approved by the top leaders of the the LDS church. IMHO this is what really is at the root of BSA credibility question and one of the main reasons that our numbers continue to go down on a national level. To borrow from OGE, "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..." I have always felt that scouting was a unifier for youth of all backgrounds not as a devisive agent putting people at odds with each other at it seems to be currently. I think we owe our kids better than that and put away all of our own political agendas.

WAH WAH WAH, boo-hoo, snivel snivel. Someone please pass the kleenex, man what a bunch of whiners. Give it a rest ppllleeeaaassseee.

This thread reads more like a soap opera, Come on you guys the world is a tough place and we all have to survive the ups and downs. So quit your whining and get on with it instead of crying the blues. To do the right thing would be to close this thread right now. We all have had accidents, uninsured as well but we move on instead of moaning and complaining, you should do the same scoutldr.

It is most probably a rumor started by a Chinese textile company who is making all the BSA patches now, lol. Seriously though a change is long overdue and welcome if it is for the better and not just a way to save money by dealing with third world manufacturers.

scoutleader That 85 year old veteran scouter is of course an exception, more power to him, he is a living piece of scouting history, I was referring to current scout leaders. OGE, while I appreciate your passion for the red beret there is not enough panache in the world to pull that look off today, "DORK ALERT", lol. (Editorial : The word dork as it has been used here is meant in humor and not as a slur.)

I think the key word here is "appropriate". Unless you are doing some kind of historical reinactment of scouting an adult leader will look ridiculous wearing pieces of a uniform from the 60''s or 70''s, and it is not setting a very good example for the boys to encourage them to wear complete, proper, and current uniforms. Besides those red berets would make anyone look like a dork, lol.

Gern All of the official BSA patches are now made in China, check it out next time you are in the scout shop. Looks like the BSA can no longer claim their uniform items are all made in the USA. It also means a lot more chi-ching for the supply division coffers.

Or even Rudy Guiliani with his colorful sexual exploits, including the stories of his own homosexuality. What about Fred Thompson and all his time in Hollywood and a wife young enough to be his daughter. Life is always full of surprises isn''t it.

Nothing new in this article, after all God created all of nature and humans created the church building, so which is truly God''s work?

emb 21 is correct lodge officers do not wear silver loops ever, you wear the red ones, your lodge or staff advisor should have explained that to you. F- scouter I think you went a little off on the uniform thing and it is hardly in the same line with the flag or country. Chill out a little.