MattR

Hmmm, no. It's not an eagle project in my opinion. The principal provided the drawings and you're providing the labor. Painting a cart is not an eagle project. It may be a nice service project. What I'd do if I were the scoutmaster: The principal asks for a vague idea. In this case a cart. Since the principal has already given an exact plan it's not too much to ask the scout to design a drawer. The scout figures out the details and asks a lot of questions to make something useful. All the details including figuring out how to make drawings. If he doesn't want to learn a sw tool that's okay. But he needs to make drawings and part lists and exact dimensions of what needs to be done and in what order. He should have a plan with all of that in it so it's good enough that he could give it to someone else and they could build it. As for building it, he can do everything other than work the power tools. He can find another adult to do that. You don't need to be there other than to say Stop! You're about to damage my equipment or kill yourself. He can learn how to use the tools up to the point of turning on the power. Show him how to make sure the cut is straight and exactly where it needs to be, just don't do it on the final project. If he wants a hole drilled for a screw he should know how deep and what sized bit. He can use wood clamps and glue. He can learn how to hide the screws or he can build it so the screws show, that's not your decision. The adult actually doing the drilling should be coached to do as he's told and no more. However, I'm not the scoutmaster. The fact that dad is the eagle coach means, to make a long story short, none of this will likely happen. You can talk to the scoutmaster with your concerns. You can decide what you're willing to help with. And you can say yes you'll help or no you won't. I am impressed that you asked.

The thing I've always liked about venturing is that advancement is not such a big deal. I honestly think it's truer to scouting then boy scouts. Adventure and fun. The problem I've seen is that the parents don't really know about it and so there's little motivation for it. Also, the scouts that I've seen aren't really prepared to lead when they get there. The girls have little experience in the outdoors. The result is a very anemic program. I'm sure there are some good units but for the most part it's a bunch of kids without much motivation. I'd be more interested in working with crews but I think it would be easier if they dropped the age so that leadership and teamwork can be the focus while they're young and more receptive. I do think coed troops could honestly help crews as the girls would have more opportunity to learn some outdoor skills and also make friends at an age where that's critical. There are some kids that just want the adventure and fun, don't really care for the MBs and ranks and don't really fit in with the boy scout program. Rather than have a troop create a venturing crew for older scouts (which I know, does not work) how about a venturing crew create a troop just to handle the younger scouts until they're old enough for venturing?

You're asking what has the same thrill and impact as a flaming arrow without the flame or the arrow (sounds like a Five Easy Pieces quote: "A chicken salad sandwich. no butter, no mayo, no lettuce, hold the chicken"). How about replace the point on the arrow with a dull point? Or make the entire lake a shooting range and get the RSO or whatever is needed for archery (and place a target at the other end of the lake). Nothing will beat the flame but even a glow stick would be fun to watch. As for arrows falling into the lake get a canoe and go find them. The scouts could have fun with that.

That's a big brush. In my own small way, in my own small corner of the BSA universe I'm trying to make a difference. I'm the new district camping chair. I put the kabosh on a change the last guy did as nobody ever asked the SMs what they wanted. I'm pushing hard to get scout input for what the camporees should include. At klondike last weekend I had said the scouts want more patrol vs patrol competition and I was told that was a bad idea as it's hard to match patrols for equal sizes, ages, abilities. So rather than fight it I said let's have an experiment. In the morning we'll do the old model of patrols competing against themselves and in the afternoon it will be patrol vs patrol. The scouts loved it. They were hollering and screaming and practicing. I gave them ribbons for scout spirit, teamwork, and scoring in the morning events. For the patrol vs patrol the winner got bragging rights only. They had fun and one parent, that couldn't go, called me Sunday night and thanked me. I also know nobody is going to complain enough to fire me as nobody else is around to take the job. Maybe your council has enough volunteers to form some hard cliques but we will take anyone.

No offense taken. In fact I limit my knots to one row on one shirt that I only wear indoors. Enough to start a conversation if someone is interested.

I have a James E West knot and I have no idea who donated the money for it. I put it on my uniform as a way to say thank you to the donor. So please don't assume it's someone that wants to buy recognition.

I think this whole thread illustrates why National is interested in membership numbers. The number of scouts is going down and the overhead is not. The result is economic stress and thus everything mentioned in this thread. The long term solution is getting more kids having fun camping with their friends. This is one of those "It's the economy, stupid" messages that should be part of National's letter head. "It's kids having fun, stupid." I don't think the solution is going to come from focusing on what is preventing kids from having fun. It's going to come from focusing on ensuring that kids are having fun. We've been through all the usual problems. Parents are busy. Parents don't like the outdoors. Parents don't volunteer. Kids are doing more. Kids must participate in all these other activities. Girls. Moms. Dads. Single parents. .... Here's another thought. Focus on making it so much fun, rewarding and challenging that most kids will honestly decide that they're more interested in scouts than a second, or third sport, or doing anything else. It's not that I don't want kids doing anything else, I just want scouting to compare favorably. Right now the only support that national provides is getting Eagle. Eagle may be a challenge but it's not fun. It's not enough to keep an 11 year old that likes soccer, football, and baseball to stick around. Eagle is not the fundamental attraction for a kid to stay in scouts. It may be for the parents but for a kid it has to be fun. All the fun stuff, the stuff that scouting is really about, is up to the SM to figure out (not to mention selling this idea to those parents that only see Eagle). But getting back to the OP. The question every council and national employee should be asking them self every day is whether what they're doing helps each CM and SM deliver fun and adventure. If all they come up with is it's important that every scout memorize the USDA My Plate diagram then they're failing and adding no value. Come up with some honestly fun activities that a unit leader can use out of the box and then there's value added. If all these parts were supporting the CMs and SMs then the money problems would fix themselves.

Time for a new topic. I had to pick something up from an old scouter today. I was lamenting the drop in participation and said I was reading some old books from Hillcourt that were just dripping with enthusiasm and adventure. So he said he took Woodbadge with Hillcourt being the SM. That started a discussion. I asked him about a syllabus and he told me it was pretty simple. After months of preparation by the staff he showed up the first night and told everyone there would be no flip charts and all the teaching would be outdoors (chuck all the planning). Each patrol had to teach anything they wanted, as long as it came out of the scout handbook, the patrol leaders handbook, the scoutmaster's handbook, or the field book. Also, whatever they taught had to be in the form of a game. So, basically patrols made up games that taught skills. There might have been more but that was the bulk of it. So he used that as SM. Patrols made up games that taught skills. And to think that I used to really encourage scouts to make up games that covered skills. I'm thinking this might be how the next camporee works.

... and the French hate the Germans ... We were in Prague and saw a fun show. It was for kids. It was mostly a mime but in the beginning they wanted to tell everyone to turn off their cell phones. Rather than just say it they acted it out. The English version was a take off on a California surfer dude. The French version was a take off on someone that was full of himself. The German version was someone that was very stiff and formal, stay within the lines. There were a bunch of German kids there and they loved it all.

I see this as well. That's why I started working on teamwork and leadership with just the younger scouts. They are more willing to try something new. It has started to bubble up to a few of the older scouts, so that's good news. I know, it's completely backwards. Getting feedback is my problem. I asked scouts for input on what they'd like. I told them everything was on the table. I asked adults what they thought the scouts would like. I got no feedback. So I wrote up some new events and sent them out and asked for feedback. The adults were no help so I took it to the OA meeting and asked the scouts what they thought. They all liked what I wrote. But none of them are showing up. Again, I'd be more than willing to give this over to someone else but there's no interest. Feedback requires motivation. I don't know how to motivate others. I'll be the first to admit I'm a lousy salesman. I agree. We're in the same situation. I don't want to take on round table. I'd be willing to do roundtable for PLCs. Any PL, SPL, or ASPL is invited? And all we do is make pizza, listen to music, and oh, talk about Spring Camporee. Do you think this would have any chance?

Yes, scouting is supposed to be a challenge, and an adventure. That's how it was sold in the old days. That's how it was 10 years ago. It was the key to motivating the scouts. Make it a challenge, make it fun, train them for the challenge, let them be. Unfortunately things seem to be changing. There seems to be fewer scouts interested in a challenge, at least in my neck of the woods. We used to have 2 high adventure trips a year plus summer camp and all of them were always full. Now it's a struggle to fill one trip a year and summer camp is down. I'm the new district camping chair and this weekend is klondike. We have 38 scouts signed up, for the whole district! I used to have more scouts from just my troop show up. But it's not my troop because nearly half the scouts going to klondike are from my troop. And it's not just the scouts. I didn't really want to be the district camping chair. After 12 years as SM I just wanted a break. I'm the first to admit that someone younger and more enthusiastic would be better. But nobody else will step up. It's really hard to challenge a young man when this is the attitude. I don't know, maybe your point has already been made. We've lost. I don't know where that drive that wants a challenge comes from. Where a sense of adventure is born. I just don't see it often in the scouts today. The few I see it in are pushed down by peer pressure. Yes, kids these days are busy. They're so busy they can't even dream. Or wonder. Or imagine anything other than what's on their todo lists. Who knows, maybe national should add a first class requirement to discuss how much free time a scout has and track what he does with it for 12 weeks.

Any organization that does research is going to be curious if you have a PhD. They're going to be so curious that putting it as a title will get them to read past your name. Any organization that teaches is going to be curious as to your education. Anyone that deals with regulatory or any required licensing will also want to know. So, scientists, teachers, doctors, lawyers, civil engineers, .... My son had a problem with selling himself. He also thought it was lame. Fortunately for him he had an experience where he saw first hand what that did to his prospects. He had two interviews. The first one he barely made the cut because he didn't want to tell his story. He thought it was lame to do so. We talked. On the second one he moved from the bottom to the top. This wasn't for a job so it was not such a big deal but it was something he wanted. It was a good lesson. One thing that isn't mentioned here is that the resume should lead to stories you can tell in the interview. It really helps if you have something to talk about. Scouts is an excellent source of stories.

I think there's still an opportunity to start a much better discussion than whether or not you'll become an eagle scout. If you were an SPL then talk about some skills you developed in that roll. Teamwork, leadership, making things happen, solving problems. That's why someone might hire you, so talk about that. If someone isn't really sure about what eagle means then it might be better to talk about what you've done in words they understand.

And the moral of the story: Have a buddy. It was a good video.

I read a few of those posts and I was confused. How can anyone really get upset about the fact that the BSA is not letting girls into scouts a year earlier than planned? You do podcasts and change.org things for that? I would not want her dad in my troop. I've seen this before. It's never enough until you just roll over and have no standards at all. My child is perfect and who are you to stand in their way? We had a parent/child version of this and it was a nightmare. Now it's a nightmare for the council. They finally made the kid a lone scout so he and dad would quit ruining troops. This has little to do with girls anymore. This is one kid and one dad pushing like hell. The sad thing is this girl's self worth is going to crash like a kid that just ate a huge bowl of candy.

Sounds odd to me. What exactly is an Eagle Scout Candidate? Is it like being a Parent Candidate? (i.e., pregnant). But back on point, I've never heard the phrase before, so the guy looking at the resume likely hasn't either. Then it's just drawing their attention away from what's important. If you want to add something then add that you're a Boy Scout. Talk about leadership you've done and responsibility you've held. That would be more concrete than the mythical candidate.

Related story: My council is changing FOS to some other acronym. Not only that but next year each unit will be sent a bill for $200/scout. They can donate the money or sell popcorn or any of the other council fundraising. So last night at our district council meeting we were talking about girls and I asked what the GS council charges each youth. They looked at me funny so I explained to them that there are all these great plans for adding girls but do they know about this charge? If money is an issue and they have to raise $200 per scout to stay in the BSA but could sign up for probably much less if they go with GS, I asked them what they think the parents will do.

There are several board games you can turn into a human form. Battleship, Foosball, and Risk are what we've done. So, for Battlehip hang a tarp to split the "sea", scouts sit in chairs on their side of the sea, put a bunch of balls in there as bombs, and the scouts toss them over the tarp where, if they hit a scout or his chair, he's out. The scouts must stay in their chairs. There's a lot of guessing where the scouts are on the other side of the tarp. The general idea is to make it so everyone moves as often as they can and at the same time. It's no fun to wait. We've also made fun orienteering courses. Give each patrol a unique course (bearings and distances) through a set of labeled flags. Get points for getting the labels correctly. We did it at halloween once and put scary movie titles on the flags. The best part was always the last point. Each patrol starts from the same spot and there are a bunch of flags out in a field. Each patrol is given a bearing and distance that will put them on one of the flags. It's all about accuracy, and having a bag of candy as the trophy.

That is a really great idea

They must teach something about movies in the UK. When my scouts made movies they were mostly, well, plotless, pointless, and not even slapstick (which I would have really liked). Anyway, if they start writing REDRUM on the mirror, camp far away.

How often do we get into discussions that boil down to what is going on inside someone's head when they do something? Cross sticks could be hazing or a way to have some innocent fun. Dancing for lost items can be taken as fun or really embarrassing. Is that what's going on here? How about a different view of this. Suppose a NA tribe decides to use a likeness of Jesus at an event. This could easily go two ways, depending on intent. If it were respectful I'm not sure many Christians would mind. If it were to illustrate peace and love and respect of all people then my guess is most people would be fine with it. Certainly there will always be some that would be upset but for the most part people would be okay. On the other hand, if it were to mock Christianity then that's a different scenario. It would be in all the newspapers and it would get ugly. So the question is not should a tribe be allowed to use Jesus, it's how are they going to use Jesus and is it respectful. Back to the original intent of the OA. There is a certain mystique in NA cultures, just like there is at the root of all cultures, that resonates in a way that words don't. Sometimes it takes more than just talking about an "honor society." Scouts do not respond to talking. They'd rather see it. As a scout I really enjoyed watching the OA ceremonies. We keep throwing out bits of fun and motivation because someone can abuse it. I think it would be better to get all the people involved to sit down and talk about the good that could come from these things, figure out better ways to convey what's good and bad, and also accept that a few bad situations should not be used to paint an entire organization with a single brush.

But a lot of leadership is interpersonal skills. Either way, I strongly agree with what you say. This is also a difficult idea to get across to parents. Many see the only problems the scouts need to deal with are learning skills and dealing with things other than people, whereas the real rub, and fun, is dealing with people.

How about mark Latin Scot's thread the winner and close this thread. A lot of upset people for no reason. Another thread might be dumb ways councils raise money but it should be kept to real situations and not unverified news.

I'll take below zero in a tent over snoring in a cabin any night of the year. One way or the other I live in an area where we get cold and so we get the gear to stay warm. We went through a phase where scouts slept in cabins a lot and we just said enough, cabins are for special trips. Sleeping in a cabin is dessert and too much dessert is bad for you. The other side of this is camping in weather where there's little chance of below freezing is also special. Reliably, that's about 3 months a year. So this has little to do with advancement. We don't give credit for the tent camping requirements and the scouts really don't care. Think of it as a lock in with outdoor activities.