MattR

i.e., the scouts don't trust the adults. That both sounds like human nature and one of the bigger challenges holding back troops. When a scout says "I just don't like that" it might mean "I don't know how to do that and don't want to make a fool of myself" or "I tried that once before and did make a fool of myself" or "I'd really like to do that but 'they' told me it's not cool" (and 'they' might also be afraid of making fools of themselves) or "I'm more worried about getting cold/hungry/wet/etc" or "I don't have the money for that" or "I don't want to miss the dance at school" or .... For som

I don't think it's the only thing left. Now, it is if the only tool they have is to write rules. But maybe they could think a bit wider. Consider my first point way up above: shooting sports, water sports and climbing. Given that those are always popular activities at summer camp maybe we should be doing more of that. I would be willing to get tool certified to both allow my scouts to have more fun and, just as importantly, make the g2ss more realistic so there's less cutting of corners. Now, before you say a certification process is expensive, just make an online training for it. Considering

No. We first moved to our current house some 25 years ago, have never paid for cable and are just a bit too far away to pick up any channels. Hence, my last point about TV. If they trusted 90-99% of units then those units would be able to use electric screwdrivers and climb on rocks above 6 feet.

Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing anyone?

There seems to be a few issues in all of this. The use of simple rules to avoid danger rather than, say, training as used for water, shooting and climbing activities. Creating rules for problems that don't really exist, such as holding a scout upside down. For those that don't want to be held upside down, just ask the scout and take their word for it. National doesn't trust units and vice versa. Units can do as they please because the only corrective action is drastic and therefore rarely used. It doesn't take many bad actors before we all suffer. Is that a re

Actually, if those scouts belong to that church what's wrong with taking them to anti-abortion events? Some churches do use the BSA program as their youth program. Period. I can't even imagine what your point is other than the two of you don't like each other. Why are you getting so upset about little details if, in a few months, this whole organization is going down the toilet?

If you need a name and a face I'll volunteer for that. I don't mind getting in anyone's face if I believe in something. How's that song go, freedom is just another way of saying you have nothing less to lose? The Buddhists have a slightly different version of that. Freedom comes from wanting nothing. I have a good story about that but maybe later. As for letter writing, you make a good point. My guess is the councils are screaming about their camps, but yes, we could join in on that. Mosby never returns my calls, though and I don't have any other contacts. Got any addresses? I can write l

Probably not the mothers, either. I once had a parent that was so bad I had to engage with his idiocy so he'd leave the other parents alone. I finally got him out of the troop. However, this issue of COs not ensuring a well run, safe program has been going on for decades. This might be a good way to explain the quality control issue. The BSA's model has always been they provide the program but the CO ensures the program. That's just not happening anywhere.

That is way cool.

Many responses jammed into 1 post: If this thread suddenly becomes 5 pages shorter because I pulled all the YP sub topic out please don't be offended. It's just getting harder to figure out where the line is. That said, one aspect of YP is training the scouts. Whether leadership or First Aid, I've noticed that in the heat of the moment scouts are not prepared to deal with serious issues (an unconscious person or an angry scout refusing to help). There needs to be "muscle memory" to lean on when your brain is screaming WTF. So we did exercises that tried to recreate, with game playi

Why not buy all the patches and pins now and keep chugging? Irrespective of what happens have the B&G and make it fun. The scouts don't care about all of this.

It's the Yiddish in me. When everything looks hopeless and grim, make a joke of it. Subtle is better. Honestly, it's the only way to accept what you have no control over and move forward. The only question I have is will I have the energy to help in whatever scouting is after all this is over. It's easy to talk on a forum. It's a lot harder at my age to stay warm on a cold campout.

Just curious, is there a competition to see who is the last eagle? The boys could play this game as well.

Okay everyone, it's time to chill out. Things are getting a bit intense. It's late. Get a good night's sleep. This crisis will still be here in the morning.

Yeah, you're probably right. But they still don't have to worry about being sued.

Welcome to the forum, @SilverPalm. I made my scouts dance for lost items. Honestly, I got tired of picking up their stuff all the time. But, whenever a shy scout had to dance it was known among all of the older scouts to dance along with him. It worked. Soon the shy scouts realized it was nothing to be afraid of. A couple of times I had to dance as well. The scouts loved that. It all depends on the attitude, not the task at hand.

What are the judges priorities? I ask because all of the discussion about how the BSA is getting hit by this when few others are brings up a really good counter point. Only the BSA is in the position to improve youth protection. BPSA and Trail Life have little incentive or resources to do any more than they are because they have nothing to lose. The school districts, too, can give lip service to this subject because of whatever government protections they have. Only the BSA can improve things and has the motivation and resources, but not if they're liquidated. If I were the BSA I'd be pushing

We don't know. I used to buy cars by walking away from the dealer. If they know you can walk away then you have leverage on the final price. The bsa put out an initial offer and the TCC started walking out the door. That's all we know for now. I wouldn't start pushing scouts to get eagle or selling your gear. Besides, I think the eagle brand is taking a huge hit - what's it going to be worth if you're afraid to bring it up? Keep working on what you have control over. Teach scouts the Law and Oath.

@skeptic, I'm going to pick on one of your posts a bit. Please bear with me for a bit. That's about one sexual abuse per day. Given that the G2SS won't even let scouts use electric screwdrivers it's hard for me to see how one sexual abuse per day is acceptable. How responsible is the secondary overseer if they know their barriers are being avoided? Far worse then child rape? The only thing that fits that category is murder. I think this is your real question. First, we're never going to make that number zero. But one per week is a lot better

Had Moderna #1 yesterday. Had a bit of a headache last night. Coffee took care of that this morning. And suddenly I just don't feel like doing anything. It's really good I made all that chicken stock yesterday.

No worries. I guess my point was that their main defense evolved from a group of people telling themselves it's fine. The term echo chamber comes to mind. That seems to be a common problem in failing companies and armies.

Shoveling deep and wide or just too naive to understand the situation they were in? BTW, the ais map is not correct. Unfortunately, I noticed that the school my son's pack was in was listed as a CO and it is not on the map. And I checked another database, it is the only school in the US with that name.

I started replying here but realized it belonged in the thread I already split off about YP/Quality. I'd suggest, to keep this thread focused, if people want to talk about how to do scouting after ch 11 they start a new thread.

I was responding to the ch 11 thread but thought it better to put it here. National's (non) management of ch 11 has been no surprise to me. Quality has never been a serious interest. Also, the numbers of abuses by year is what I feared. I agree it's proof that yp in the bsa needs to improve. I think the ypt issue and the lousy management are related. Rules alone won't fix these issues. The bsa, if anything, thinks simple rules will solve every problem. But most problems are people problems and the top down rule dumping that the bsa has will never be good at solving people problems.

Is it possible we're overreacting? I mean, follow the money. If the TCC doesn't get a 66% vote then all these lawyers working for the TCC get? Much less than going after each individual case.