Kudu

IMHO, You're on a VERY slippery slope here. Be careful is all I can say. There is a HUGE potential for a blacklash from parents, especially those of us with younger kids in units. Eagle Foot, I'm with CalicoPenn and TrainerLady. Stay inside. It's too slippery outdoors. And when you are inside, be sure to lock up your Scouting FaceBook and Webpages to keep everybody SAFE! Publicity is for organizations that boys actually want to be associated with, like sports. No problem publishing for all the world to see a young athlete's photograph and full name in the newspaper (and it's online edition). Because sports are not SAFE! Boys do not like things that are dangerous. That's why Den Mothers and Paper Eagles wrote the Guide to Safe Scouting. And what is this about using cell phones as an outdoor tool? It's just not right to expect that one Scout in a Patrol might have a cellphone. In fact, it's wrong to think bad thoughts like that. When I use my awesome Wood Badge "leadership skills" to jam my Troop into a crowded campground with electricity, hot showers, and WiFi, I like to pretend that I'm camping in the wilderness. Knowing that the Scouts might have cell phones spoils the beauty of that illusion. But if you simply will not listen to our advice: You might consider using cell phones (and other electronics) in one of the following 100 Traditional Wide Games: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm And/Or Additional 61 Night Games: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/night/index.htm But don't say we didn't WARN you! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net Traditional Signal Games: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/smith/signaling/index.htm

Video: http://tinyurl.com/7de3cz9 BROOKLYN CENTER, Minn. - A Minnesota boy is being called a hero after helping save his friend's life during a canoe trip. The 10-year-old was given a rare national award from the Boy Scouts on Saturday. Being a Cub Scout, he is younger than most who receive it. In 2010 when Antonio was just nine, he and dad prepared for their first ever canoe trip with friends by using the Boy Scout Canoeing Merit Badge book, practicing with a canoe in a local lake. Antonio said they went over, "Back strokes, stabilizing and bringing a kid into the boat without swamping... hoping that we wouldn't have to use it." But they did. Then they went canoeing on the Namekagon River near Hayward with their friends. On the second day of the trip Rocky said, "We came around this blind curve. We saw our friends' canoe had capsized." A boy, not wearing a lifejacket, had been tossed into the rapids. Antonio said, "Then I said, 'Let's go Dad!' And then I'm like calling to [the boy] to keep his confidence up and that we were going to be there." Antonio continued, "We went full speed into the rapids." According to Rocky, "I said, 'Antonio, stabilize the canoe, just like we practiced!"

Yeah, I find that "modern ways to communicate' take care of themselves when you announce an event: 1) That Scouts actually like (real adventure), 2) Is subsidised with general Troop funds, 3) With a definite deadline to pay a non-refundable deposit (even a month in advance). Campouts with climbing towers or unsupervised Patrol backpacking are the most popular in our neighborhood Troop.

Wood Badge in Spanish: How else are Mexicans going to learn that Hispanics hate camping? Jeffrey H writes: "That's news to me. Care to elaborate?" Jeffrey, Since 1972 Wood Badge has used "diversity" as an excuse to move the Boy Scout program away from camping, and replace Scoutcraft with "character and leadership." Here is an example of the "Urban Youth" program introduced the year after our current Chief Scout Executive began his Scouting professional career: In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill. http://inquiry.net/leadership/index.htm Here is a video of our Chief Scout Executive explaining why it is wrong to expect 12yo Hispanic Boy Scouts to sleep in tents: http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

Thomas54 writes: So really, the actual activity matters less than the structure. So a sheep sheering club that practices together and competes will be just as good at character development as ROTC. Yes, this is the reasoning behind the destructive, anti-Scoutcraft forces of Scouting, except that "character" is usually bundled together with "leadership:" "Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth..." http://inquiry.net/leadership/index.htm

Nike writes: Is it maybe to help train Mexican trainers to present it back in Mexico? How else are they going to learn that Hispanics hate camping?

Really, Eagle732? You did start a thread that asks: "How do we deal with this?" The reason that the BSA is so politically conservative is that liberal institutions in America never embraced camping as a way to teach values to their offspring. In fact in 100 years, the peak number Unitarian and/or Universalist Troops in the BSA came in the period after 1972, when Wood Badge declared open war on Scoutcraft. "In the Boy Scouts I learned to camp, which I hated and still hate. And I learned how to build a fire which I have never needed or desired to do. My Scoutmaster was a pleasant enough old coot, and the hate and disgust I took away from Scouting was accidental." That says it all. Liberals who hate camping use the BSA's membership policies as an excuse to keep their kids away from camping. Conservatives who hate camping become Wood Badge Staffers. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

moosetracker writes: "Seriously - what was the link?" Here's an "inclusive" link for the "Wood Badge in Spanish" thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U87S3UKPWIw "In the Boy Scouts I learned to camp, which I hated and still hate. And I learned how to build a fire which I have never needed or desired to do. My Scoutmaster was a pleasant enough old coot, and the hate and disgust I took away from Scouting was accidental." My goodness! All that hated directed at Scoutcraft! Penn sounds like a "leadership skills" expert! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Tampa Turtle writes: I would consider teaching the boys about tarps with bug nets in lieu of tents. Some of our guys are going that at least when it is cool enough to keep out bugs. Tampa, I'd like to hear more about your Florida Troop's experiences with tarps + bug nets. Buffalo might as well. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Wood Badge in Spanish sounds like a marvelous opportunity to switch the contents of "Scouting's mountaintop experience" from office management theory to soccer coaching techniques.

Search is working OK now. Green Bar Bill's "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" can be found here: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm The Gilwell version of Patrol Leader Training is here: http://inquiry.net/patrol/gilwell/index.htm

This is a wonderful, unique opportunity to demonstrate the value, fun, and challenge of Scouting to audiences who might be wondering what Scouting in 2012 is all about, said BSA Chief Scout Executive Bob Mazzuca. We know Scouts are Prepared. For Life.TM, so theyre up to facing the challenges life throws their way." "What Scouting in 2012 is all about"? Judging from our CSE's anti-Scoutcraft speech when he unveiled his trademarked "Prepared. For Life" theme, look to National Geographic Channel for the "fun and challenge" of the future Boy Scout program of soccer matches and EDGE square knot relay races

I'm with EagleDad and Tampa Turtle. The ideal Troop is a group of backpacking Patrols. Troop tents are more trouble than they are worth, except as an option for new Scouts. Most Scouts would rather sleep in their own tents, and will take better care of them. Patrol boxes and Troop tents keep the unit focused on the Troop Method. Limiting your Troop to only one Troop QM is by definition the "Troop Method." There is no rule against each Patrol having its own Troop QM, with position patch and POR credit. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

I agree with Stosh. Think of all the Troops that have more than one ASPL. Likewise there is no rule that prohibits each Patrol from having its own "Troop QM," with position patch & POR credit. It's called the "Patrol Method."

The only problem I have with that one is in our current format, the one patrol we do have has a 13y.o. PL that has really stepped up and has the patrol's buy-in as far as him being in charge goes. I've done this with a number of Troops, and never the same way twice. Since you have an established Patrol with a Patrol Leader who has stepped up, I agree. The ideal is mixed-age Patrols, of course, and I like to keep at least two older Scouts together so they don't resent being with younger Scouts. Two competent older Scouts can head a large "New Scout Patrol" of as many as 16 Scouts, if need be. After a while, some of them will drift over to the established Patrol, or the 16 Scouts will split into two Patrols with a talented leader (and his buddy) leaving the established Patrol to head this new break-off Patrol. Don't get hung up about how many Scouts should be in a Patrol, it depends on the competency of your available older Scouts: Their ability to control a Patrol on a day hike without adult supervision, and camp 150-300 feet from the nearest Patrol at night. Yes, 16 is normally too many for one Patrol, but with two older Scouts they can informally break into smaller groups as needed. "They weren't crazy about being stuck in a patrol having to be a patrol leader for a bunch of kids 3-5 years younger than us." Take them aside separately and ask each, as a favor to you, to take the job of Patrol Leader on with a buddy of their choice. Tell them what you like about their leadership abilities. Don't be afraid of horse-trading. Ask each outright: "What will it take to get you to move from SPL or ASPL to Patrol Leader? If MP3 players are taboo in your unit, for instance, consider allowing them in certain situations. If you are using the "Real" Patrol Method, you won't really know that anyway I always arranged to get the Natural Leaders out of class for the sixth-grade recruiting presentation, so they are involved right from the beginning. Do the presentation yourself, because the point is to use peer-pressure + perceived danger to whip up a frenzy. Teenagers can downplay the element of danger ("We only see rattlesnakes in PA and bears in the Adirondacks"), so I usually use Scouts for Q&A while the sign-up clipboards are passed around. Keep it moving: The presentation is an action movie trailer, not reality TV. "I think I am beginning to grasp your concept of an SPL, but please correct me if I'm off base. Do you see it as an unnecessary mid-management position that gets in the way of the fun?" Yes, an SPL is complete waste of a Troop's limited talent if your Patrols hike during monthly campouts without close adult supervision. Likewise for camping Patrols 150-300 feet apart. Baden-Powell did NOT require an SPL for Troops of 32 Scouts (four Patrols). Good Patrol Leaders are perfectly able to designate one of their own to take point when necessary, at Opening Ceremonies and PLC Meetings, for instance, and for "SPL Meetings" at Camporees and summer camp. That being said, when your Troop is truly boy-run, your best Natural Leaders may well demand an election for SPL. Time for horse-trading! No reason that the SPL cannot also be a Patrol Leader, but wait until later, when they demand it. It is best to have them first see how well independent Patrols can work without an SPL. "I started thinking about the tents and other gear we don't have." Simply add to your Troop's Personal Equipment List: "Small Tent: Optional, but we need them!" You would be surprised at how many tents some Scouts' extended families can get hold of. A small $50 tent is a great gift idea for Boy Scouts, and seems to be popular (especially with families with limited incomes, for some reason). You should provide a list of recommended models to avoid toy tents. In good weather a Patrol might sleep under the stars, with a rental lean-to "Plan B" in case of rain. Likewise you can rent a separate small lean-to for each Patrol, and pitch around it what tents they do have. "But then I started thinking, if I take a kid who has never been camping before and I can just get him out there once, sitting around a campfire looking at a billion stars he has never seen because of the city lights." Separating the Patrols multiplies that effect! Have one Troop campfire in the middle of the circle of Patrols, then head off to their separate Patrol campsites at bedtime. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu (This message has been edited by Kudu)

"But if you have a 12 y.o. who has the right stuff, don't be afraid to put him at the front of the line-up." Only if (for some reason) the 12yo can move a single Patrol across a Scout camp to a memorable lunch destination better than the 16yos can. If the conditions are right to cook hot dogs over a fire the new Scouts start themselves, so much the better. My recruiting presentation appeals to boys hungry for outdoor adventure. You must deliver that on the first campout or they will drop out right away. Such boys tend to be a whole lot less "polite" about how ridiculously lame a boy nearly their own age is, pretending to be a "leader" while adults and/or a 16yo "SPL" tag along. If the 16yo is the Patrol Leader (with no adult supervision) they will put all that energy into impressing him (after they test him, of course). That natural dynamic between young boys and the most competent teenagers is why Boy Scouting was once so very popular.... Yours at 300 feet, Kudu The good news is: (Physical Distance + A Good New Game) = Adventure http://inquiry.net/outdoor/hikes/index.htm http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/index.htm (This message has been edited by Kudu)

Depends on the brand of Buddhism. There is no problem so long as Buddhists agree, in writing, that they are not "the best kind of citizens." The dilemma of "God" versus "No Such Thing" is Western dualism. To most Buddhists such a problem is unnecessary: A form attachment to the world that leads away from the goal of Buddhism: Mindfulness. But less than perfect Buddhists can take the same route as agnostics and Baden-Powell: Pantheism. Simply use the pantheist definition of "God" as the "Sum-total of the natural laws in the universe." http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm

I've done that a few times: built a "Troop in Trouble" from five or six Scouts up to Baden-Powell's 32. lrsap writes: One, does anyone have recruiting ideas that have worked to bring in 5-6 scouts at one shot? How about 12-20? Lots of people told me that it was against school or district policy to get access to our local public schools during school hours. Like so very much in Scouting, that is not true. At least not for those of us with kindly, non-threatening personalities. If you follow the advice in this recruiting presentation, about 75% of the audience will (in front of their peers) sign your "Yes! I want to go Camping!" sign-up sheets, and of that about 28% will actually register with you: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm OK, now print this out: Ignore it until the parents of your 12-20 new Scouts fill out the paperwork, and you panic because you are not really prepared to multiply your Troop's membership by four (4) in one week: lrsap writes: So I have the two older boys in SPL/ASPL positions, but really treat them as JASMs, which we will officially make them very soon. We recognize the need to grow by at least one patrol to run all aspects of a PM troop. The idea that you need more than one Patrol to use the Patrol Method, and that your two most mature Scouts should not be the Patrol Leaders: Is NOT the "Real" Patrol Method. What you describe is the Troop Method. The "Real" Patrol Method is what made Scouting so popular back before the invention of Leadership Development. Sounds abstract, doesn't it? That's why you need to print this out and read it when you panic at your own success. You see, there is a very serious flaw in my recruiting presentation. By definition the boys who signed up all (as in 100%) either: 1. Dropped out of the hell we call "Cub Scouts;" or 2. Had the good sense to never join it in the first place. That's why you will panic at your own success. You stood in front of an initially hostile audience, you promised them "Adventure," and you were shocked at how popular Boy Scouting can be. But deep in your heart you know that the Troop Method you describe was designed for Cub Scout Survivors, not for boys who demand adventure and will drop out as soon as they realize that instead of Adventure you are geared up to teach them office leadership theory. To keep the Promise of Adventure you made to these red-blooded American boys, you MUST separate their two Patrols by 150-300 feet, have each Patrol conduct an independent Patrol Hike to opposite ends of the camp during the day, eat separately, and then clash wildly against each other with Wide Games in the dark: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/night/index.htm http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm To accomplish that, your two most mature Scouts MUST be the Patrol Leaders, not "SPL and ASPL" or JASMs. Baden-Powell designed the Patrol System to work without an SPL. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

When our Scout camp near Niagara Falls extended the camping area, we asked for all the straight saplings in the path of the new road. We stored them on our own Troop camping property until they rotted. Indoor Lashing Practice Box: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/practice_boxes.htm Pioneering Models of different scales can be fun in the winter months. Also useful for visualizing large projects: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/b-p/models.htm (This message has been edited by kudu)

"One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction." http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm

Given CalicoPenn's definition of a "Five Mile Hike" as navigation from the back seat of an automobile, it is more important to define "Leader." Baden-Powell and Green Bar Bill's primary use of the term was for a Scout with a literal mastery over Physical Distance. A "Patrol Leader" is a Scout who can, on a regular basis, safely "lead" a Patrol over significant Physical Distance without adult supervision. The great tragedy of Scouting is that Baden-Powell used the word "Leader," a literal term that would later become a metaphor for adults who sit around an office and fancy themselves to be "leaders." Had B-P used the term "Patrolguard" (as in Lifeguard) then Wood Badge might not have castrated Physical Distance from the Patrol Method, given that so far they have kept their knives away from our Boy Scout waterfronts. If none of your Patrols meet Baden-Powell's definition of a Patrol (a group of around eight Scouts that hikes significant distances without adult supervision, and camps at least 150-300 feet away from other Patrols on Troop campouts), then you are not qualified to speak about "Natural Leaders" because you have no skin in the game. You have replaced the managed risk of Patrol Adventure with Webelos III "Controlled Failure." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net (This message has been edited by kudu)

OldGreyEagle, That is why elite ad hoc High Adventure Patrols are better than regular Patrols: >> No POR credit.

Eight Scouts per Patrol assumes falsely that all the boys in a Troop of Webelos crossovers actually like Scouting. So if you want to keep your indoor Patrols together on campouts, simply increase the number of Scouts in each Patrol to ten or twelve, or whatever number each Patrol needs to get eight of them to a campout. That is IF you don't want to change how you camp. If you DO want to change how you camp, well: I volunteer at such a Troop now and I find that about 50% of Cub Scouts crossover because their parents want Eagle. So typical Boy Scout campouts are just fine for them. The good news is that 30-50% will turn into gung-ho campers IF you filter out all those future Paper Eagles. Backpacking is a great Paper Eagle Filter because the indoor boys and adult helicopters will select themselves out of such rugged campouts, so no hard feelings! Hold a couple short trips, even as little as one (1) mile to get the kinks out and allow some of the boys to drop out. Ad hoc Patrols are a good thing. That's Right! I said it! Ad hoc Patrols are a good thing. The boys who continue to backpack can form what Green Bar Bill called "Real" Patrols. These are your Real Scouts. Two or three of them are your Troop's natural boy-leaders, with the talent to function on a near adult level if you let them. Since these are ad hoc Patrols, the natural leaders will tend to take leadership because you don't have the circus of elections and POR credit. Shhh! WARNING! In 21st century Leadership Development it is taboo to identify "Real" Scouts and "Real" boy-leaders. Now, with 200 parents (plus another 10-50 of their outdoor friends, relatives, and co-workers) you have at least one (1) adult who is an experienced backpacker willing to take the lead (IF you know how to find him or her). HINT: Your most gifted outdoor parents DO NOT participate in regular monthly campouts. But they WILL surface if a proposed adventure sounds challenging. You just have to look for them. From there you will discover that another half-dozen adults love backpacking, but only if somebody else takes responsibility for leadership. Likewise with 200 parents (plus friends, relatives, and co-workers) at least one of them is gifted and willing to the take the lead at canoe, shotgun, SCUBA, climbing, 50 mile bike trips, etc, with another half-dozen adults dying to participate in something like that. If that one parent does not step up, then hire a professional guide (climbing, for instance). Some Boy Scout camps have volunteers that will staff a climbing tower and teach Climbing Merit Badge. So, the answer is to form elite ad hoc High Adventure Patrols for the Real Scouts, open to ALL ranks and ages. Do NOT exclude the younger Scouts (which is the common wisdom behind Venture Patrols). If a small boy is gung-ho and mature, your Real boy-leaders will figure out how to include him if they like him. What I do is let the best Real boy-leaders form their own Real Patrols which (by definition) work independently of close adult supervision during the day. These are self-selected with the right to exclude annoying young Scouts and older trouble-makers. The rejects then form Patrols with more adult supervision. Shhh! WARNING! Do not use the term "elite" Patrol. It's not PC! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

As for the appeal of Scoutcraft to the 21st century boys in your own area: It is easy to judge that for yourself: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm My experience is that six months after the Webelos have all crossed over, an additional 28% of sixth grade boys will register with the BSA if you present Scouting as the kind of Scoutcraft adventure described in the Congressional Charter. (This message has been edited by Kudu)

Citizenship training program? Same process: 1. Baden-Powell invents Patrol System: Regular unsupervised weekend Patrol Hikes with a Physical Distance of about eight (8) miles. 2. B-P observes that regular unsupervised Patrol Hikes teach Boy Scouts how to work together as citizens. 3. Indoor Mind hears "Citizenship," scans its library of citizenship school books, discards Physical Distance as "old-fashioned," and substitutes a classroom route to "citizenship training." Hence Scouting based on "Physical Distance" (14 mile First Class Journey, 300 feet between Patrols, 8 mile Patrol Hikes) versus "preaching citizenship and obedience."