Kudu

Because Beavers are the best.

OGE writes: Memorize? Explain in own words? Sounds like more academic clap-trap and book work homework, exactly what Baden-Powell did not want scouting to be... Baden-Powell expected his Scouts to memorize and explain the ideals of Scouting, not schoolwork stuff like Citizenship Merit Badges. If he had wanted "Reverent" to be a Scout Law, he would have added it. The same goes for Scout Spirit Requirements, Scoutmaster Conferences, and Boards of Review: all of which provide opportunities for adults to use Scout Law against Boy Scouts. God as the sum-total of all the natural laws in the universe provides intellectual Boy Scouts protection against what the YMCA imposed on American Scouting, and a tool with which to understand what Baden-Powell meant by a Duty to God. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

It's the supernatural stuff to which most atheist Scouts object. When a Scout tells me he is an "atheist," I ask him to memorize and then explain in his own words what Carl Sagan reported to be Einstein's summary of Spinoza's pantheist definition of God: "God is the sum-total of all the natural laws in the universe." The trick is to teach an atheist Scout how to recognize and explain "natural laws" when he sees them, so I hold the follow-up Scoutmaster Conference on a campout as we build and then light a campfire. The role of pantheism in Baden-Powell's "Nature Knowledge:" http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Scoutbox, Does it list the objectives of the Patrol Method to be: "Show how to establish an environment that is safe both physically and emotionally in which Scouts can learn, grow, and enjoy Scouting to the fullest [Adult Association Method]. "Explain that listening well is the first step in using appropriate [adult] leadership styles [Adult Association Method]. "Show how positive reinforcement is among the most valuable contributions adults can bring to the lives of young people [Adult Association Method]. "Employ various supportive [adult] leadership styles, matching them to the needs of each Scout and to the patrols and troop as a whole. Among the most effective styles are explaining, demonstrating, guiding, and enabling [Adult Association Method & EDGE]." (Boy Scout Scoutmaster Training Syllabus, Patrol Method Presentation, Page 53)

They mean well. Do they? How much of what Wood Badge has done to the Patrol Method can we attribute to sheer stupidity? ScoutBox, The page references are to the Boy Scout Scoutmaster Training Syllabus. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

The Patrol Method permeates the Scoutmaster Specific syllabus. Except, strangely, the Patrol Method Presentation. Just sayin'.

chaoman45 writes: One was assigned a service project at summer camp because he kept complaining the SPL didn't know how to lead. So, you say a boy had a hard time talking others boys into working on their vacation? I define "Leadership" as the ability to organize Outdoor Adventure. Try "assigning a project" that a subset of the Scouts actually want to do, like a day-long backwoods fishing trip where the adults will not be allowed within 50 feet of the Scouts, and see what happens. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Just to be clear, Tahawk, none of those quotes are from the "Patrol Method" Presentation script (pages 53-61), correct? So you do agree with me that (strictly speaking) the 25 minute Patrol Method Presentation itself never mentions a Patrol Leader or describes a working Patrol, correct?

As of the 2010 printing of the Boy Scout Scoutmaster Training Syllabus, there is no mention of a Patrol Leader, nor any description of a working Patrol in the "Patrol Method" Presentation script (pages 53-61), or the PowerPoint Presentation (slides 16-19). If the "Patrol Method" Presentation was about the three-page "Patrol Method" chapter of Scoutmaster Handbook (as your "inclusive of the materials incorporated by reference" seems to imply), then the script and slides would include actual talking points about the Troop Method pictured on page 20: Stuff like the fake Baden-Powell quote, New Scout Patrols, Troop Guides, etc. The true Wood Badge Horror Story is that Wood Badge Staffers can't look objectively at the "Teaching Objectives" on page 53, scan pages 54-60 for even a single mention of a Patrol Leader, and then say simply "Yeah, this Presentation should be labeled 'The Adult Association Method' or the 'EDGE Method'." Just sayin' Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Game of Life experts replaced the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol with EDGE theory in the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster-Specific Training." No, "teaching EDGE" did not replace the Patrol Leader or the description of a working patrol in that training, inclusive of the materials incorporated by reference. In a nutshell, that is why Leadership Development is such a destructive force in Scouting: Wood Badge Logic. Bottom line is that leadership skills "experts" removed the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster Specific Training, and replaced them with EDGE. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Too bad the time spent on the Game of Life can't instead be used to explain Baden-Powell's Patrol System. It's only fair: Game of Life experts replaced the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol with EDGE theory in the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster-Specific Training. I wonder if even one out of a thousand Wood Badge Staffers is aware of the Patrol System's minimum standard of at least 50-100 yards between Patrols. If Wood Badge uses the term "Patrol Method" and still hangs portraits of Baden-Powell smiling benevolently as the participants sing "Back to Gilwell," then they should know what Baden-Powell meant by "Patrol System." You know: Back in Gilwell. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net (This message has been edited by kudu)

Quote of the Day: Ask the SPL "to mention some of the benefits that a young man can get from Scouting. He will probably start with the fun thingscamping, hiking, outdoor skills, trips, making friends. Guide the senior patrol leader toward understanding Scoutings role in developing personal growththe values of citizenship, character, ideals, and overall fitness." In other words, the goal of this Troop Method training is to guide the SPL away from the "fun things." When Scouting was popular it was based on the Patrol Method: PATROL Leader Training, as opposed to "Leadership Skills" for TROOPS. If you would rather spend your time teaching Patrol Leaders competency in the "fun things"--camping, hiking, and applied outdoor skills, teach them what Green Bar Bill called the "Real" Patrol Method, using his "Patrol Leader Training" course: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

jcole12 remembers "Rich Johnson leading wonderful campfires." Did Rich ever mention being incarcerated as a boy for being a "fire bug" (or a passion for electronics)? If so, check out the author of Abominable Firebug: http://route495software.com/MyWork.html

How much time have you spent on Google? Kleinpaste might be easier to Google if you combine his name in quotes with something that you know about him. For instance his name plus "Scout" returns a legal case in which the automobile of a Peter Kleinpaste was involved in an accident during a "Camporee being held on May 9, 1959, at Savanna Palisades State Park. Defendant Peter Kleinpaste was employed as a professional Scouter by the U.S. Grant Council of the Boy Scouts and had general charge of the Camporee." http://il.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19670210_0000112.IL.htm/qx In 2004 jcole12 mentioned both Rich Johnson and Peter Kleinpaste (spelled "e" before "i") in the thread "CHIN-BE-GOTA revisited 20 years later:" http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=68445#id_146824 I see now that you have posted there as well. Some of the contributors (Cliff Golden, for instance) are very well connected in the Scouting world. You might "bump" that thread again, or try to contact them individually to see if any of them reply. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net (This message has been edited by kudu)

Interesting that this article was promoted as a tie-in with the Summit Bechtel Reserve (Patrol Cooking to be used in Jamboree).

One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction (Baden-Powell, from the article "Are Our Boys Degenerating?" circa 1918). http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm

Posted on August 17, 2011 by Kevin M., Patrol Z Reporter7 Across the country, Scout camp dining halls are full of staffers leading campers in songs and cheers to thank the kitchen staff for their daily meals. But at the Cedarlands Scout Reservation (CSR), a camp nestled deep in the Adirondack Park in Long Lake, New York, Scouts are at work in a different way. Tenderfoot Scout Jonathan M. prepares breakfast in his campsite at Cedarlands Scout Reservation. (Photo from Patrol Z Reporter Kevin M) As the sun rises and birds begin to chirp, the sound of sizzling pancakes cooking over a camp stove can be heard as Boy Scouts work diligently to prepare breakfast in patrols. While cooking methods have evolved, the patrol method, first used by Baden-Powell at Brownsea Island in 1907, has undergone relatively few changes in the last century. At CSR, the patrol method is used to its fullest extent as Scouts camp, cook, eat and clean as patrols during their weeklong stay at Long Lake. The patrol method will also be used for meals at the national jamboree at the Summit. A typical day at CSR begins with 2 patrol members rising early to pick up their patrols breakfast from the camp commissary. Once back in camp, the cooks take over and begin preparing the groups breakfast. When breakfast is ready, the patrol gathers for grace and then digs in and enjoys a delicious meal. Divvying Up The Jobs So who gets to be cooks and who has to clean up afterward? Thats the beauty of the patrol system. Each patrol is led by a patrol leader who is tasked with creating the patrols duty roster, a list that assigns specific jobs like cook or cleanup to patrol members to make sure no one does a job too often. In other words, cooking duties rotate throughout the week, which gives everyone a chance to be a master chef. Cleaning Up After breakfast has been eaten and the last pancake has been fought over and devoured, the work isnt quite done as someone still has to clean up. This job falls to the members of the patrol assigned to cleaning duty for that meal. Cleaning is done using the 3-pot method: 1. A hot wash pot with soap. 2. A hot rinse pot. 3. A cold sanitation pot. Once the dishes are cleaned and leftover food has been returned, Scouts leave camp for merit badges, trips and other activities. The same system of cooks, food runners and cleaners is repeated for each meal, but different Scouts do different jobs. Why Its Important Eagle Scout and adult leader Nolan Amos believes that system helps build a sense of responsibility and teamwork in the patrol. There really is nothing better than the smell of bacon sizzling on a camp stove on a cool Adirondack morning. Jonathan M., Tenderfoot Scout Patrol cooking is an important part to every troops development of younger Scouts, Amos said. Patrol-style cooking shows the dependency of the patrol on the other members. Without one to gather the food, cook and clean, the patrol cannot have their next meal. Jason Cocca, also an adult leader and fellow Eagle Scout, agrees that patrol-style cooking helps Scouts develop leadership and communication skills. However, the benefits of patrol-style cooking are best summed up by Tenderfoot Scout Jonathan M. When you cook your own food you get a sense of accomplishment and achievement you cant get in a dining hall, Jonathan said. There really is nothing better than the smell of bacon sizzling on a camp stove on a cool Adirondack morning. http://www.summitblog.org/patrol-style-cooking-not-your-typical-summer-camp-meal/

124 Games for Special Needs Cubs & Scouts: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/disabled/index.htm

Usually a Troop's strongest natural leader is either in the front of the Troop running the meeting without anyone hearing adult voices, or he is in the back of the room being "willfully disobedient." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

OldGreyEagle writes: Did not realize my sentence structure would be a target when I was agreeing... Target? I did not realize that we were not agreeing.

OGE writes: I want to know if there are enough volunteers who can handle the 70% of sixth graders who want scouting if its a dangerous outdoor activity. I wrote that 70% of sixth graders want to be a Boy Scout if Scouting is presented as a dangerous activity. "Presented" being the operative word. I fulfill my Promise of Scouting by separating the Patrols by 300 feet. I'm sure you have read my presentation a dozen times so you know that I use the peer-pressure of an auditorium of sixth-grade boys to dare them into joining. Easy peasy. http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm It is one thing to sit in a school (with a zero-tolerance weapons policy) and hear me tell you that you will have to carry a knife (and matches, and know how to deal with rattle-snakes and bears, and know enough first aid to save the life of someone you love), but... ...but I haven't done my job if when it gets dark one of your friends doesn't start to cry on the car-ride to your first campout, or cry when he starts to set up his tent and realizes that the nearest adult is a football field away, or cry when he hears his first raccoon. As for the really cool dangerous stuff like rifle, shotgun, white water canoeing, SCUBA, and my newest discovery: BSA climbing towers (I had NO idea how cheap a rented BSA tower with instructors can be, or that ANY Scout can earn Climbing Merit Badge) I find experts. http://troop452.com/climbing/index.htm How to train indoor adults to think like outdoorsmen? Enough outdoorsmen to handle an influx of millions of new Boy Scouts? THAT is why Baden-Powell invented the Real (pre-1972) Wood Badge: http://inquiry.net/traditional/wood_badge/index.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Renax, I agree with Eagle92: It's worth it. Even in an adult-run Eagle Mill where all the Scouts crossed over from Cubs, about half will jump at the chance to hike at least a couple of miles with a pack on their backs IF you present it as an adventure. But you have to get your outdoor training somewhere else. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

You mean if corporate "leadership" experts stick by their pledge to never return Wood Badge to Baden-Powell's purpose: Teaching indoor volunteers how to think like outdoorsmen?

Stosh, The District Commissioners in my old Council would have never allowed you to escape so easily! In every District there are always a couple "Troops in Trouble:" Units down to six or less Scouts. The trick is to avoid "Feeder Packs" like the plague. Instead use the Presentation above to rebuild a Troop by recruiting Scouts whose parents have never heard of "Eagle Scout," but are thrilled just to hear that their sons want to go camping once a month. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

OGE writes: And so the issue becomes do you keep a program for Outdoor Boys purely for Outdoor Boys while that demographic shrinks...It is a difference of Philosophy Philosophy, huh? Is that what it is called? Certainly it would be wrong to call the "shrinking outdoor demographic" assertion anything that might be considered "anti-Scouting"! But 70% of sixth-graders want to be Boy Scouts if you present Scouting as dangerous outdoor adventure! That is 70% in addition to the sixth-graders who have already crossed over into Boy Scouts for other reasons. So if we figure 10% are already Boy Scouts, that is a "potential" marketshare of 80%. Do you suppose 80% of sixth-grade boys prefer BSA homework badges and corporate "leadership skills"? "Potential" marketshare, you say. "Potential"? The real question, of course, is how many parents would allow their sons to actually register in Engineer61's nightmare scenario? As I pointed out in the recent "People love their National Forests" thread, the answer is 28% in addition to the boys already registered as Boy Scouts: Back when I recruited in public schools at the beginning of a school year (always six months after our Council had given Webelos to Scout Crossover their best shot), I was usually able to register an additional 28% of the sixth-grade boys by presenting our program as the kind of "National Forest" adventure described in our National Charter ("Scoutcraft"). http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm My target audience was all the boys who had dropped out of Cub Scouts (or never joined). If we assume that 5% of the audience were already Boy Scouts, then 33% of the remaining parents registered their sons as Boy Scouts in my Troop without any promise of schoolwork badges, indoor citizenship, corporate "leadership skills," or "Eagle Scout" on a business resume. You know: The kind of stuff that Baden-Powell told us boys hate, have always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time. If the Scouts in this "neighborhood in transition" were typical, then (using shortridge's figures) an additional two million (2,000,000) boys (now where have we seen that number before?) would become Boy Scouts if Scouting was about National Forests rather than indoor "leadership skills." See TAY %: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=286532 So the real question, OGE, is what would a flood of two million (2,000,000) outdoor "National Forest" Boy Scouts do to our program? Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net