Kudu

Reaseyann writes: "First, I have 5 boys that have been together since Tiger Cubs - they tend to leave the other two out a lot...very rough and tumble and boy like...Due to this, I definitely have parents that would not allow their kids to go if they felt the adult supervision was not strong." This is why the "Real" Patrol Method relies on an older/bigger, and more mature "Natural Leader" to lead a Patrol into the backwoods without "adult association." It would be ideal if one of your NYLT Scouts is such a Natural Leader. If he is an older Scout and transfers into your Patrol, just make sure he has at least one buddy his age (of his own choosing) to tent with. If it is the parents of the two Scouts (who have not been together with the other five since Tiger Cubs) who demand adult "helicopters," then maybe they could switch them out to an adult-led "Webelos III" Patrol if the Troop reorganizes Just to be clear, a Patrol Hike is one (1) Patrol only! Other Patrols hike separately to other destinations. I agree with TwoCubDad: "Blowback -- you need to prepare for it. Making change almost always results in some folks being unhappy." In some Troops, it can take years to pull off even if you are the Scoutmaster. But the advantage of an adult-led Troop is that you do not have to change as many "unhappy minds" if (as an adult) you go ahead and make changes only to the Patrol to which you are the advisor. Unlike debating abstract Troop leadership theory with hostile adult helicopters, Physical Distance works miracles with a single Patrol (and makes sense to all the boys in the Troop) right away! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

I second Eagle92's recommendation of The Third (3rd) Edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters, Volumes 1 and 2. It remains the most comprehensive explanation of Green Bar Bill's "Real" Patrol Method ever published (far more than you will find at any current BSA training courses, including Wood Badge). Copies can be purchased today for $10 for Volume 2, and $18 for Volume 1 at: http://tinyurl.com/83xh448 (The Patrol Method is covered in Volume 1). In the meantime, the brief "Green Bar Patrol Leader Training" for Patrol Hikes can be found at: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/3rd.htm and: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/3z_hike.htm "Golden Arrow Patrol Leader Training" for Patrol Hikes: http://inquiry.net/patrol/golden_arrow/4_hiking.htm

Reaseyann writes: "Patrols are too small. (except mine - 8th grade) I have been saying this for a while, but since I am just one lowly ASM - no one listens to me. " It sounds like you are some kind of Patrol advisor, so start with what you CAN control. Don't try to change the Troop, change your 8th grade Patrol! Your husband is Scoutmaster, get him to back you up. Do not think of the Patrol Method as how a Troop is divided (Patrol competitions, for instance). Start with Green Bar Bill's "Real" Patrol Method, which means that a Patrol is defined by Physical Distance: what it does SEPARATE FROM the other Patrols. Physical Distance means Patrol Camping and Patrol Hikes. Baden-Powell's minimum standard for Patrol Camping on monthly Troop Campouts is 150-300 feet between Patrols. If your Patrol of 8th-graders can't be trusted to camp that far away, then camp them 50 feet from the other Patrols, moving them farther away each campout in proportion to their competency. Likewise, in the rest of the world the usual distance for Patrol Hikes is eight miles (because of their Second Class unsupervised eight mile "Journey" requirement). This too can be dumbed-down for Scouts who have never experienced the "Real" Patrol Method. Start with a mile. A "Real" Patrol Hike has no "adult association," but to transition away from adult-led, find a second adult to keep you company on the hike, but STAY AWAY from the Patrol as it hikes, and STAY AWAY from the Patrol after it reaches its destination. It's all about Adventure, so the destination of the hike is more important than the Journey. An afternoon at a remote fishing hole works for many Scouts. A simple cooked meal (hot dogs on sticks) is a plus, if they are mature and experienced enough for you to supervise cooking fires from your distance AWAY from the Patrol. If the Troop is adult run, then so much the better! As an adult you can get your Patrol to act like a "Real" Patrol very quickly through Physical Distance without wasting time in the PLC, expecting them to invent the wheel. As soon as you introduce Physical Distance to your Patrol, your Scouts will grasp the "Real" Patrol Method at once. The other Patrols will begin to follow their lead, competing with them through the magic of testosterone. Then all of the other good advice you receive will be practical, common sense, rather than complicated, abstract theory. The reference for Baden-Powell's minimum 150-300 foot distance between Patrols is Scouting for Boys, in which he in turn refers the reader to the standard reference in the rest of the world: Roland Philipps' "Patrol System:" http://inquiry.net/patrol/philipps/index.htm Specifically Chapter 16, "The Patrol in Camp:" http://inquiry.net/patrol/philipps/16_patrol_in_camp.htm See also "The Object of Camping:" http://inquiry.net/patrol/traditional/100_yards.htm More sophisticated "Hike Theme" ideas can be found at the following URL: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/hikes/index.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Google News --> Sign In --> "Personalize Your News" Icon (upper right) --> "Add Any News Topic" Dialogue Box. Add as separate "Topics," short key words for the Scouting subjects that interest you. "Boy Scout" "BSA Scout" Then add Google News to your home pages that open with your Internet browser, so that Google can keep track of everything you do during the day. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Brewmeister writes: "I get it. You dont like cub scouts. And I will admit youre not alone in your opinion," It's the Cub Scouts who don't like Cub Scouts, and they leave in droves before crossing over. Brewmeister writes: Then again, since I am just a "junior forum member" and a macaroni-gluing Den Mother, that might not be of any concern to you. I do like your non-sexist use of the term "macaroni-gluing Den Mother." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu Extremist Tarnisher

Beavah writes: "Extremist style can destroy the message. I feel da same way about being a conservative these days." Extremism in the defense of Scoutcraft is no vice. By "Den Mothers" I refer to the brave female Den (and Troop) Leaders who served on local and regional heath & safety committees way back in the 1990s when the Guide to Safe Scouting (GtSS) ban on laser tag was announced: The ones who touted the virtue of "inclusiveness" in bringing a women's sensitivity to bear on games in which testosterone-driven boys "pretend to harm other human beings." At the time they quoted the pronouncements of a woman on the national health and safety committee as their source for the actual specifics of the brand-new values-based "safety" policy. By "Paper Eagles" I refer to the male "leadership skills" enthusiasts who were the first to defend the new feminist policy, and continue to this very day to unabashedly dumb the Boy Scout program down to the Cub Scout level. KC9DDI writes: "Yeah, Brew, I too find it frustrating that a position that I strongly agree with (re-introducing a strong outdoors-based program to Scouting, emphasis on patrols and true youth leadership) gets tarnished by those who can't carry on a polite, coherent conversation on the topic..." The whole point of kicking the Scoutcraft out of Baden-Powell's Scoutcraft program was to move "Wood Badge Trained" Den Leaders (and other indoor "leadership" experts) into committees that regulate the Boy Scout program from the unit to the national level. Reasonable, polite, coherent, conversationalists like you, KC9DDI, are the problem, not the solution! True youth leadership? Thanks to you nice people, morbidly obese BSA millionaires get treated with respect when they blitz the media with anti-camping, anti-Patrol programs geared to getting boys indoors to "learn about leadership" by "sitting side by side" with parlour "adults of good character." http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm Such leadership skills dogma deserves to be treated rudely. Where are our Extremist Tarnishers when the nation truly needs them? As for you, Brewmeister, if you "looked into this thread because you are considering some type of outing for your Webelos;" and did not like the game of "Siberian Man Hunt" using "unexploded paintball ordinances" as hand grenades... If you will never have a use for the "paintball" catapult and ballista... If you were not amused by the possibility of Indoor Eagles hacking television remotes to trigger laser tag targets... Well then, as a "Junior Forum Member" you might not be aware of a wonderful feature at Scouter.Com, designed just for people like you! To the left of your screen, under "Kudu," is the hyperlink "Ignore this user." Click it now and enjoy years of Kudu-free serenity on the Internet. For everyone else, here is my collection of Traditional Scout Games for estrogen-challenged Boy Scouts who make games out of pretending to harm other human beings: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/laser_alternatives.htm "When the Den Mothers came to take away laser tag, I said nothing because I don't play laser tag. "When the Den Mothers came to take away squirt guns, I said nothing because I don't play with squirt guns. "When the Den Mothers came with their critter plush-toys to take Scoutcraft away from Wood Badge, there was no one left to speak out against airheads." --Mike Godwin (This message has been edited by Kudu)

Did you know that if paintballs do not impact on a target, they do not necessarily break? When we camped at a youth camp that was rented out to paintball leagues, our Scouts would spend hours carefully harvesting all the "unexploded ordinances," and then use them as hand grenades in Baden-Powell's "Siberian Man Hunt:" http://inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/activities/games/b-p_snow.htm Other Wide Games: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm Eagle92 writes: BTW some of the old training materials ... have directions on how to build a catapult Here are John Thurman's Gilwell Catapult plans, but they assume a mastery of pioneering skills: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/pioneering/34_catapult.htm A more simple catapult, but still assumes a diagram is enough explanation: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/gear/snowballista.htm Dan Beard's more detailed plans for his "Boys' Ballista" http://inquiry.net/outdoor/autumn/guns/ballista.htm fred8033 writes: "Yeah laser tag is out" Not necessarily. Simple leadership theory: The spirit of the "law" is to protect Boy Scouts from having bad thoughts, but the letter of the law is based on pointing "fire arms." So where are our indoor Eagles when we really need them? Laser tag is based on infrared technology, not lasers. I'm sure other infrared remote control devices can be hacked to work in a "laser tag" facility. The Den Mothers and Paper Eagles at the Guide to Safe Thinking would have to reword the ban on "laser tag" to include pointing remote control devices at people, thereby treating other human beings like televisions. In the meantime, think like a CEO! Use your Wood Badge skills to break the letter of the law without being arrested Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Since then, I've added an additional 100 games for special-needs Cub Scouts: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/disabled/open_air/index.htm

Can anyone explain what it is about sleeping on the ground that causes ageing geezer backs to ache?

I hope your EDGE certification is current! As of April 1, 2012 BSA Lifeguard was upgraded to an official "Position of Responsibility." Selection of BSA Lifeguards is now done through Troop elections at the unit level. The important thing is that the boys learn about democracy through the principle of controlled failure. It sounds like the Council in TN did not tell you that BSA Lifeguard training was soon to be modernized and streamlined into the three hour "Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops" course. Certification as an Aquatics Director is no longer required to train waterfront leadership, but Wood Badge for the 21st Century is highly recommended. A few Aquatics Directors have privately expressed doubts that a BSA Lifeguard can be adequately trained in only three hours, but remember that before "Leadership Development" became a Method of Scouting in 1972, Patrol Leader Training took six (6) months to complete! Welcome to the miracle of 21st century Leadership Skills! BSA Lifeguard Training in a Nutshell: Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops is broken into three one-hour modules. The three sessions focus respectively on what a new Patrol Leader, SPL, or BSA Lifeguard must know, must be, and must do. When a Scout completes all three modules, he is qualified to wear the "Trained" patch on his swim trunks, and shirtsleeve under his badge of office. The manual contains position-specific leadership cards that define each position in the troop, including Lifeguard. The three one-hour modules are divided into three topics: It is organized into three one-hour modules, which can be taught individually or all in one session. Module OneIntroduction to Leadership (Know): Conducted within a week of a Scout's acceptance of his new position, this session focuses on what a boy leader must know. The manual directs the Scoutmaster to refer to the Scoutmaster Handbook, chapter 3, "The Boy-Led Troop," chapter 4. "The Boy-Led Patrol," and chapter 5. "The Boy-Led Waterfront." Module TwoHow to Fulfill Your Role (Be): This session on how to fulfill the role's responsibilities focuses on what a leader must be. The program includes the Scoutmaster's "vision of success," a discussion of the "Teaching EDGE" method of instruction, and an evaluation of the troop's progress. Module ThreeWhat Is Expected of Me? (Do): This session focuses on what a leader must do. Topics include a review of the troop leader position descriptions, motivating Scouts to lead, what constitutes success in the boy's leadership role, and a coaching session with the Scoutmaster. Forum member Reasonable Rascal may have additional information on this topic. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

100% of all BSA Trainers to patiently explain to newbie forum members that: 1) The 21st century definition of "light bulb" is the "EDGE Method." 2) Discussion about "changing a light bulb" is a waste of time because the EDGE Method has been used by human beings since the invention of speech. 3) "Screwing in" the EDGE Method is forbidden in the Guide to Safe Scouting's chapter on light bulbs. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Our older Scouts conduct Patrol Campouts with no adult supervision during the day. The younger Scouts hike a shorter route with the adults in the same general area. Everybody meets up in the afternoon, where the older Scouts make camp about 1/4 mile away from the adults. Some vids of our Patrols setting off on such Patrol Outings might help demonstrate to your SM that it is common practice: http://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet/videos As for Second Class Scouts, back when American Scouting was based more on Baden-Powell's Scoutcraft program than "leadership" theory, ALL Second Class Scouts were REQUIRED to conduct a two-day 14 mile backpacking trip called the "First Class Journey," before they could qualify as First Class Scouts. You might find the adult how-to guide useful: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/hikes/index.htm Note that the amount of adult-preparation for the First Class Journey far exceeds what your Troop needs for a whole Patrol of third-year Scouts with adults in the general area. Back in the day, the First Class Journey was undertaken by only two (2) Second-Class Scouts at a time, with NO adult supervision what-so-ever! To help prepare your Troop for Patrol Campouts in the future, consider camping your mature Patrols Baden-Powell's minimum distance of 300 feet apart when you camp as a whole Troop. The fact that your Scoutmaster is not already on board does not bode well. You might remind him that a single Patrol outing with no adult supervision (Staffers) is still part of Wood Badge. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

The purpose of the EDGE Method is to eliminate from basic training's Patrol Method Presentation, the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol. The result? The Guide to "Safe" Scouting eliminated the "Real" Patrol Method. When used in the process of conception, EDGE functions as an equally safe and effective form of birth control. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

It is the Disneyland approach to outdoor adventure: Ban the "Real" Patrol Method, and replace it with theme park rides and attractions. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Jeffrey H writes: "I watched a Troop die this past month (did not re-charter) because they refused to recruit for many years." This refusal to recruit is one of the great mysteries of "modern" Scouting. I think it is related to the assumption that Boy Scouts should come from Webelos, rather than the vast majority of sixth-graders who rejected Cub Scouting. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

The basic idea is for the adult to make conscious and deliberate the Patrol's process of deciding who the best leader is at any given moment. As talents emerge, the time in charge might increase from a few minutes, to a weekend, to a month. In a perfect world, a natural Patrol Leader might become evident to everybody after three campouts. In Green Bar Bill's "Real" Patrol Method, the Scoutmaster would meet with an immature Patrol before it picked a Patrol Leader, and diplomatically describe the kind of Scout he was looking for. Don't expect an eleven-year-old to lead without adult help. boomerscout writes: "While first class first year is possible, it means any games at troop meetings need to have a scoutcraft focus: fire building contest (where allowed), knot tying relays, compass course in nearby park, etc. instead of basketball, soccer or tag." Here are some of such Scoutcraft Games designed to test advancement skills: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/mackenzie/index.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=343357

>> Avoid electing Patrol Leaders for as long as humanly possible. dfscott writes: "You surprised me with this one." Some of us think of the term "Patrol Leader" as the equivalent to "BSA Lifeguard," a position of significant responsibility: A mature older boy whose judgement and bearing you can trust (when you aren't there) to keep the others from causing destruction or getting injured. Modern Scouting is in such a rush to have Webelos crossovers take turns at "being the Patrol Leader," but would we likewise encourage the little non-swimmers to pretend to be "BSA Lifeguards," just to learn through "controlled failure" about abstract things like "democracy" and "leadership skills"? Every group is different, but I find in young Troops of ten and eleven-year-olds, as soon as you sew a "Patrol Leader" patch on even the very best little leader, jealousy, arguments, and burn-out begins. You reap what you sew, so to speak dfscott writes: "I told them 'football field field distance is recommended.'" That's how I explain it to older Scouts: "Camp your Patrols a football field apart." dfscott writes: "Do you suggest letting a Troop Guide..." If you do find a couple of mature older Scouts to act as Troop Guides, make them Patrol Leaders instead! dfscott writes: "and/or dedicated ASM lead them until they get older? ...just run as a group with direction (as needed) from adult leaders?" Yes, "as needed." When you get the Patrols separated 50 feet, have the adult ask the group for advice on how to solve each hands-on (practical) camping problem. The natural leaders will emerge. Always think in terms of tasks with a very limited duration, led by the Scout or Scouts with the best idea at that particular moment in time. If the adults handle the personality conflicts (that young boys would otherwise solve with their fists), a Patrol of eleven-year-old Scouts can (with the right guided questions) solve by consensus any practical camping problem. Likewise for always working on advancement on individual (separate) Patrol Hikes at monthly campouts. Hikes can be short, a mile maybe, but to a worthwhile location. Food should figure large, maybe a primitive cooked meal (hot dogs on a stick), depending on time considerations. Green Bar Bill said that "A Hike is a walk with a purpose." For the general idea, see his "Theme Hikes" at the following URL: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/hikes/index.htm Oh, and don't forget to pit the Patrols against each other with evening Wide Games! http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

dfscott writes: "I met some stiff resistance in some areas. Namely, '300 yards -- with no adults!'" For what it's worth, Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System is 150-300 feet, not yards And that figure is based on experienced older boys (the ones with the best judgement and bearing) acting as Patrol Leaders. In Troops of 10 and 11-year-olds, I start with the Patrols camped about 50 feet apart, with adult advisers stepping in as needed. Remember that when Scouting was popular with adventure-craving boys, the purpose of a Patrol was to go out on patrol. Advancement is done on individual (separate) Patrol Hikes (not as a whole Troop), in this case with an ASM teaching (rather than the Patrol Leader). Avoid electing Patrol Leaders for as long as humanly possible. With the Patrols 50 feet apart, adults are far enough away for the natural leaders to emerge as needed, but close enough to be able to observe that process evolve. You can call attention to each Patrol's ability to solve camping problems (site selection or hike map & compass, for instance) by asking whom you believe to be the natural leaders for their opinions in front of the other Patrol members, and seeing who agrees and disagrees. Expecting a Patrol Leader to resolve conflicts between boys much before 13 years of age is a curse. Be careful. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Thomas54 writes: "No Webelos for three years running." Good riddance. Most Cub Scouts drop out before crossing over, and the vast majority of boys who crave adventure never join in the first place. It is easy to turn small Troops around if you know how to recruit six-graders, and how to make good on a promise of "dangerous adventure:" http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

The same phenomenon happens with fire building. Take a goup of new Scouts to look for sticks and they walk right over them. They just don't see them.

"Traditional scouting is counter-cultural in that way, and therefore practices like youth leadership and patrol method are under assault. Youth can't be trusted to lead or be on their own with their patrol because their biology isn't adequate." Youth can't be trusted to lead or be on their own with their Patrol because we took the Patrol Leaders' position-specific training away from them and undermined backwoods competency with the invention of six-month PORs. I like to use Russell Crowe's "Master and Commander" in "Patrol Leaders Only" training weekends to show our "squeakers" of what they are biologically capable: http://inquiry.net/patrol/training/movies.htm The film might appear "dated" to those who insist that modern indoor office managers know more about "leadership" than Baden-Powell did. Certainly, a tale in which a one-armed 13-year-old midshipman assumes command of a man-of-war ship in a battle at sea would be a poor choice for those who forbid 13-year-old Eagles! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

"You are stuck on the concept of... "Even your zealot Grier admits... "Your 'one size fits all' philosophy..." Just a note to new leaders: The reaction to moving your Troop away from plywood boxes, once established, can get surprisingly personal. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

"So, without containers, 300 feet is actually FORTY times harder than 15 feet. Plywood boxes will always require more trips than backpack "containers" because boxes are a fixed size. "Of course you can always drop the patrol equipment at the camp site via car." "Always," indeed! As soon as a new Troop locks itself into heavy equipment, the adults will "always" think of camping in terms of automobile-accessible campsites. "Always" with the pledge that they will spend more money for a second set of equipment for backpacking, but some day in the future "when the boys get older." "Chuck Box Riddance" is the account of a Troop that got rid of their plywood boxes, and the usual "500+ pounds" of equipment that accompany them. This is a middle way "container" approach that uses Rubbermaid totes, so "if they go backpacking pretty much all they have to do is dump the stuff out and divvy it up - it's essentially the same gear they use all the time." http://inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/lite/chuck_box.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

boomerscout writes: "Actually, we want each Scout to carry some crew gear in their pack." Likewise for "Cook Group Kits:" Each Scout carries his share in "Group Gear Bags" inside his own pack. Rather than building plywood boxes, make bright orange Group Gear Bags. Packing Group Gear is then mostly the same for Canoeing, Car Camping, and Backpacking (whether it is 300 feet or 30 miles). In a Troop of 11-year-olds, consider limiting early backpack trips to 1/4 (a quarter) mile. Personal gear can be carried in those ill-fitting $10 yard-sale backpacks from the 1970s (add waist-belts). The personal gear is emptied at the destination, with a second quarter-mile trip to pack in the Group Gear Bags. Canoeing allows small Scouts to move heavy packs over longer distances. The Lightweight "Cook Group" Method: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/cooking/lightweight.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net