Kudu

Maybe you prefer the term "CEOs" to "leadership skills experts:" "We recognize the evolving science of leadership. We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques." http://www.inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

OldGreyEagle writes: Green Bar Bill has such a program in the pages Kudu maintains. Green Bar Bill's "Patrol Leader Training" taught the best natural leader in each Patrol how to lead his Scouts into the woods without adult supervision. Green Bar Bill called such physical leadership the "Real" Patrol Method. Leadership skills enthusiasts took Real Patrol Leader Training away from the Boy Scouts and replaced it with "Junior Leader Training," which presumes to teach every boy in the Troop how to "understand" leadership (in the form of success formulas). In other words leadership skills experts took the substance (that which could be measured, in this case physical distance) out of the Patrol Method. Now Bloomberg reports that leadership skills experts removed $7.7 trillion dollars of substance from the economy. There must have been "old school" executives who objected to these "state-of-the-art techniques." Presumably prior to 2008 they were silenced by the kind of personal attacks that the father of modern Wood Badge used against Green Bar Bill, and which leadership skills enthusiasts continue to use to this day (in this very thread). But by now some of these "old school" executives must have written pop business books about this experience. I'm looking for that: terminology that describes the psychology of replacing substance with "innovation," and how that process can be reversed (i.e. the International Olympic Committee). Yours at 300 feet, Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

Has anyone ever written (for those of us unfamiliar with "leadership skills" jargon), a skeptical analysis of Leadership Development theory that links concepts like "innovation," "thinking outside the box," and group development theory with magical thinking and 7.7 trillion dollar bailouts? I seem to remember that after the 2008 financial crises the International Olympic Committee kicked out all the corporate "leadership skills" experts, and replaced them with "back to basics" athletics people. Thanks. Kudu http://kudu.net

Eagledad writes: Hmm, does the laser level come under laser gun or power tool? Obviously a laser level is prohibited as a power tool, in accordance with Department of Labor regulations for under-age workers. As you should know, Barry, the Guide to Safe Scouting (GtSS) does NOT prohibit real lasers, just "laser guns." Laser guns are not lasers, they shoot the same infrared rays as entertainment center remote control devices. Infrared devices are prohibited not because they pose any physical danger to Boy Scouts, but because they cause bad thoughts: It is unScoutlike to point an infrared device at another human being. The January edition of GtSS will introduce the BSA's newest Baden-Powell quote: "Scouting is a Game with a Parlour." Wood Badge history experts invented it to highlight the national safety committee's exciting new program, "Parlour Scouting in the 21st Century," designed to attract modern boys to Scouting. Because of the obvious dangers that infrared devices pose to Scouting's deeply held values, remote controls will no longer be permitted in uncontrolled environments. Boy Scouts will once again be required to use their traditional leadership skills to organize Patrol Hikes from the couch to the television, just as Baden-Powell intended. Note that these restrictions apply only to "uncontrolled environments." Remote control devices are still allowed for movie night lock-ins that take place on gun ranges, with the television downrange and the remote control operated from a prone position on a mattress under qualified supervision. Scouting's timeless values still apply, of course: The rangemaster will allow a Scout to load the device with batteries only when the television screen does not include the image of a human being. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu Traditional Bad Thoughts Boy Scout Games: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/laser_alternatives.htm

And when is to "safe" to allow Scouts to elect their leaders and let them lead? It took about a year.

I agree the PLC is the way to go. Not always. The PLC (and Troop elections) can be a trap when a Troop transitions from Webelos III to the Real Patrol Method. I could not get our popularity contest Patrol Leaders to vote for a backpacking trip, so I announced to the Troop that the older adults were going on a "backcountry fishing trip" if anyone was interested. About half the Troop signed up. When we got to the destination, I picked the two natural leaders, told them to divide the group into two equal ad hoc Patrols, and to go find cool campsites at least a football field apart. On the subsequent trips I had these natural leaders pick the Scouts they trusted to behave well away from the adults, and plan unsupervised backpacking routes to the locations where they would meet the rest of us at the end of the day. Everyone seemed to survive these weekends without "controlled failure" and "learning about democracy" OK, and as backpacking became more popular my two natural leaders were eventually elected as SPLs. The advantage of backpacking is that the Cupcake Scouts, older trouble makers ("F-150 Scouts"), and adult Webelos III leaders all select themselves out. Your Troop's real Boy Scouts can see how the Real Patrol Method works when everybody loves what was once called "Scouting." That would be your two "high functioning" Patrols:" The ones that "rush to pick up their own Patrol camp site and keep going farther and farther from the adult location." This very impulse is what made the Scouting of Baden-Powell and Green Bar Bill so very popular, back when Scouting was an adventure that boys actually wanted to try. Depressing as that might be. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet#p/a/u/2/9FKUybw6qRI (This message has been edited by kudu)

I brought it up with our camping chair. Oh, you mean your PLC? Do you have copies of their Recreation Guide, the FREE 152 page book of topographical maps? This stuff is pure gold if your two Real Patrols are backpacking now: http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/recreation/ http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/publications/search.php?id=13 Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Tampa, We have 16,334 acres for your two Real Patrols to spread out up here at McGregor Smith, if they don't mind all the wild hogs, alligators, and eagles. http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/recreation/areas/flying_eagle-mcgregor_smith_reservation.html

83Eagle writes: Yeah, nobodys perfect but the boys seem to be having fun... I'm surprised that nobody has diagnosed your depression, 83Eagle: You suffer from Cub Scout Dad "Make It Fun" Syndrome! 83Eagle writes: Nevertheless, the sheer volume of problems is depressing. What if the troop my son wants to join ... patrols dont camp 300 feet apart? Are you looking for fellow Cub Scout Dads to tell you that it is only human nature for old people to resist modern "leadership skills" innovation (like EDGE, Wood Badge, and subprime mortgages), or are you really concerned that your son will never get to experience Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System? If it's the later, then I have some good news for you: 21st century Boy Scouts (the outdoor ones) find as much excitement in the adventure of unsupervised Patrol Hikes during the day and camping their Patrols 300 feet apart at the destination, as boys (the red-blooded ones) did a hundred years ago. If it's fun, you don't have to "Make It Fun." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

Sign of the Times: This weekend I staffed an orienteering course for a "Scoutcraft Skills" Camporee. At the general assembly I asked everyone who brought a compass to raise his hand: The total number of Boy Scouts in the entire Camporee who thought of bringing a compass to a campout? Six (6), three of whom had proudly counted the button compass on his Chinese rescue whistle! Of all the First Class, Star, and Life Scouts who tried the orienteering course, none (zero) could study the map and compass and then point with his finger in the general direction of the first control point (from the swimming pool labeled "Start" on the map). This was surprising because I oriented the map for them and the first control point was due north (Most American Boy Scouts believe that the red end of a compass needle magically points the direction they want to travel) My solution was to have the Scouts from each Patrol pick 1) Their best camper, 2) The smartest Scout, and 3) The most athletic. Then with everyone else watching I went through the three steps individually with each of these three Scouts: (1.) Place the baseplate edge along the two points, 2) Turn the compass housing so that "N" points to the top of the map, 3) Shove the baseplate into your chest and turn your entire body around until the floating needle points to "N" on the housing). In other words I repeated the three steps three times, using the actual control points on the map. I do my instruction in rhymes so as soon as a Patrol has heard it once, thereafter when I get to the end of each line the Patrol can shout out the missing word to the Scout being instructed. See: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/map_compass/index.htm This is not rocket science. It takes twenty minutes (per Patrol) to individually train the three natural leaders how to use a map & compass (and count their paces) well enough to navigate six control points through a mile of thick wild-hog brush and alligator swamp (without any adults tagging along--the high point of the weekend for most of them). So it's not all doom and gloom! Teaching our Boy Scouts how use a map and compass is not a priority, but certainly as a twenty-first century organization we Wood Badgers and adult Eagles are second to none in our ability to correctly identify the Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing stages of our group's development as we sit and wait for the heat-seeking rescue helicopters to arrive. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

As soon as they realized they were lost, they should have sat down on a log and played "The Game of Life" until the Wood Badge caterers arrived. IOLS trainings, and there was a segment of almost 2 hours on map/compass and orienteering including a short orienteering course. Wow, almost two hours. The whole point of ItOLS is that you can "sign off" 90% of Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class skills in a single weekend. Most "First Year" summer camp programs are based on the same number of hours to First Class (five morning sessions, and Swimming Merit Badge in the afternoon). In fact some summer camps now just lump the two courses together: Cub Scout crossovers sitting side-by-side with indoor moms and dads. Traditional Wood Badge was designed to train indoor volunteers to think like outdoorsmen. All day Tuesday was devoted to map & compass lecture and demonstrations, with an additional five (5) related projects to be carried out individually in the participants' spare time. See Traditional Wood Badge Notebook: http://inquiry.net/traditional/wood_badge/index.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

KC9DDI writes: And here I was worried about whether or not we would be able to tie the decline of the Patrol Method with a man's posture while urinating... Using the Guide to Safe Scouting to dumb the Boy Scout program down to the Cub Scout level is all about safety, KC9DDI. Splatter is a health concern, not only for the boys but for wildlife that chews urine-soaked wood for the salt content. Oh, and Scout Spirit: Splatter is not friendly, courteous, obedient, or clean. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

BartHumphries writes: He was about to go in his pants before it was explained to him that he didn't have to wait for an open stall but could go off into the woods. Get with the 21st century, Bart. Allowing boys to go off into the woods when the latrines are full is not "inclusive." Camp Woodruff banned the practice last summer when the teenage girl staffers complained. BartHumphries writes: When asked later, his mom said simply that men who stand up to urinate always make a mess so she'd just taught him that you always have to sit down. Given their remarkable victory over the Real Patrol Method last year (just in time to celebrate the BSA centennial), this sounds like a worthy goal for the Wood Badger Den Mothers and Paper Eagles who dictate the Guide to Safe Scouting! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

KC9DDI writes: From where it is now, I think we need to drop the generic, one-course-fits-all-programs method, and instead focus on providing targeted, specific, advanced training to Boy Scouts and to Venturers, directed towards the unique elements in their own respective programs. But Leadership Development has Program Neutered even "specific" training: It removed the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the Patrol Method session of Scoutmaster Specific Training and replaced with the EDGE method. In fact the only mention of the Patrol Method in the entire session is the FAKE Baden-Powell quote that presumes to quote B-P as advancing the Patrol Method as a way to "run a troop" (as if a "Real" Patrol has no existence beyond voting in the PLC for Troop activities and then cooking and cleaning up for them). KC9DDI writes: I think we need to practice what we preach and evaluate the effectiveness of the current curriculum The most obvious criterion is how well they do with Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System (150-300 feet between Patrols on Troop campouts). A couple of my natural leaders staffed the old NYLT and did well at 300 feet. However, those of my Scouts with no pre-existing leadership talent (bright, but not natural leaders) returned spouting jargon but unable to control Scouts without the SPL. Yours at 300, Kudu http://kudu.net

JMHawkins writes: Kudu talks about patrols camping 300 feet apart - if you're going into a Wilderness Area you can't have more than 12 in your party, so with two-deep adult leadership, you can't even take two full patrols anyway. Usually this rule applies only to state and county venues. In my experience such parties of 12 are considered independent if they camp a mile or two apart. This means you only need two adults for every ten gung-ho backpackers. There are no such limits in National Forests, so long as you camp at least 300 feet from the nearest road, parking lot, trailhead, or developed campsite. National Forests are good for younger Scouts. And most (if not all) Scout camps will allow you to camp your Patrols 300 feet apart if you know who to ask about the "primitive" areas. Of course if your Patrol Boxes weigh 100-200 pounds and your adults weigh 200-300 pounds then, yes, it will seem as though Baden-Powell's Patrol System minimum standard is "old-fashioned" and "unreasonable." JMHawkins writes: There are plusses of course, but overall I see it getting harder to just go explore the great outdoors. I'm saddened that BSA isn't doing more to fight that. Seems like they could generate a lot of support for maintaining access. Fight what? Camping Merit Badge allows any cupcake to "earn" Eagle without ever walking into the woods with a pack on his back. The whole point of Wood Badge is that "21st century" Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class can be earned in two days (ItOLS), which is same number of hours as most summer camp first year programs. If anything, the BSA restricts access to the great outdoors by relacing outdoor skills with "leadership skills." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

jrush writes: G2SS and YP are just guidelines rather than "rules". A 3-day backpacking trip is really just an "extended patrol day hike". I suppose a coed venture crew could do an unsupervised overnight campouts an call them "extended crew meetings". Really, jrush? You are going to keep pounding the YP drum even though unsupervised Patrol Hikes are permitted? The simple truth is that once you teach Patrol Leaders how to conduct Patrol Hikes without adult supervision and camp their Patrols 300 feet apart while backpacking, they will hold Patrol Overnights elsewhere with their friends outside of Scouting. That's what we did in the 1960s, and that's what some of my own Scouts have always done (see Scouter Magazine's Winter 1997 issue). jrush writes: Maybe I also don't understand the ire because our course did have the patrols about 100 yards apart, we did do our "backpacking trip" without the TG, and I figured all courses did the same thing, since it is a standardized syllabus, and your poor experience with WB is a local, rather than national issue. OK, the logical fallacy first: Characterizing my objections to Wood Badge as "ire" dates back to 1965 when Wood Badge attacked Bill Hillcourt personally because he objected to the program destruction that would cause two million Boy Scouts to leave the BSA. As for the Wood Badge standby that "your poor experience with WB is a local, rather than national issue," if you looked at the outcomes of Wood Badge objectively you would see that the problem is that "leadership skills" theory does not work for Real Patrols: How many Wood Badge participants return from a Wood Badge course (in which the Wood Badge Patrols are 100 yards apart) and then teach their Patrol Leaders to space the Patrols Baden-Powell's 100 yards apart? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000? How many proud Wood Badgers return from the course and teach their Patrol Leaders to conduct Patrol Hikes without adult supervision (if only in the context of Troop campouts)? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000? For that matter, how many Wood Badge STAFFERS actually conduct unsupervised Patrol Hikes in their home units? If any Wood Badgers actually used the Patrol Method, then you would see resulting questions in forums like this: "I just got back from Wood Badge and I'm looking forward to sending my Troop's Patrols out on unsupervised Patrol Hikes like we did in the course. Before I do, does anyone have any practical suggestions for me?" In the entire history of the Internet, how many Wood Badgers have ever discussed a problem on an unsupervised Patrol Hike? 1 in 10,000? Seems like there would be more glitches than that. Wood Badge could be fixed by explicitly saying: "Take these practices home to your own units." Better yet, require all Boy Scout Program participants to add Patrol Hiking and B-P's 100 yards to their Tickets. The reason that nobody uses Real Patrols? Wood Badge has taken Patrol Leader Training away from the Patrol Leaders and replaced it with generic POR theory. Wood Badge replaces Patrol Adventure with the goal of "understanding" leadership skills formulas. That is why the "Real" Patrol Method seems reckless to you and everyone else. jrush writes: I was looking at it from the point of view of a person who has had extensive military training and professional development, Wood Badge has nothing in common with military training or professional development. If only 1 out of every 1,000 military personal implemented what they practiced in training, we would be speaking Pushto now. Wood Badge is a cult because "leadership skills" are an end in themselves: The aim of the military is to win wars, not to "understand" leadership. The aim of corporations is to make a profit, not to "understand" leadership. To apply the destructive force of Wood Badge to these institutions, you would need POR election cycles in which enlisted men vote for new commanding officers twice a year, and mail room workers vote for a new CEO every six months. jrush writes: the stuff I thought was silly was entirely appropriate for Cub leaders, and the "chuck 'em out there on their own" isn't going to fly with coed crews, posts, or ships. So, should WB return to be a "Troop-centric" course, and tell the Cubs and coed leaders that the course they're going to attend will have little to no applicability to their programs? This is the "Program Neutered" excuse: Cut the balls off the Boy Scout Program to make Wood Badge acceptable to Den Leaders. It is just an excuse. The original 1972 excuse for neutering the Boy Scout Program was that "Urban Youth" would flock to the BSA if we gave away indoor Eagle badges. jrush writes: Kudu, I agree with the concept you're proposing, but the way units could let their patrols operate in 1955 isn't the way the BSA will let units allow patrols to operate in 2015. You may agree, but you don't look at Wood Badge objectively. If Leadership Development did to BSA Lifeguards what it did BSA Patrol Leaders (take away their position-specific training, replace it with generic POR theory, and run six-month popularity contests to give everyone a chance to learn "leadership skills" through "Controlled Failure"), then you would now be using against me the very same Wood Badge Logic: jrush would write: Kudu, I agree with the concept you're proposing, but the way waterfronts let Scouts swim in 1955 isn't the way the BSA will let Scouts swim in 2015. I STILL don't blame WB. No, sir! The Real Swimming Method of allowing boys to get wet in water over their knees was a victim to the CYA mentality in G2SS, YP, etc. Wood Badge taking position-specific training away from BSA Lifeguards had nothing to do with it! jrush writes: As I said in post #2 of this thread, WB is a "reflection of how national thinks" or something along those lines. I agreed with that post, but I see all government-imposed monopoly corporations as inherently evil. jrush writes: WB isn't going to shift back to the GBB concept, because the Scouting HQ doesn't embrace the GBB concept. I agree with that too, but HQ believes that racial minorities, Den Leaders, and indoor Committee Members hate camping as much as BSA millionaires do. Yes they may be correct, but replacing camping with soccer is NOT Scouting. See: http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm jrush writes: I agree with your ire at scouting getting away from GBB's ideals, but it's not just a WB issue. Wrong. The BSA millionaires' cruel and intentional destruction of Green Bar Bill's life's work (and the subsequent loss of two million Boy Scouts) was implemented through Wood Badge in 1965. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

jrush, "Youth Protection" (along with Diversity and Program "Neutering") are just Wood Badge excuses for taking Hillcourt's necessary position-specific training course away from Patrol Leaders and replacing it with generic POR theory. As moosetracker points out, the Guide to Safe Scouting still allows unsupervised Patrol Hikes. The purpose of Hillcourt's Real "Patrol Leader Training" is to teach Patrol Leaders how to conduct these Patrol Hikes without adult supervision. A Patrol Overnight is just an extended Patrol Hike. See "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol": http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm Patrol Overnights are not central to Baden-Powell's Patrol System. B-P's Patrols are expected to conduct at least one unsupervised Patrol Hike (of about eight miles) per month. Patrol Camping is usually done as a Troop with the Patrols about 300 feet apart, in a ring around the Scouters' campsite. Of course if you yourself have ever lived up to Baden-Powell's minimum standard, then you know very well that as soon as you separate Boy Scout Patrols by 300 feet (on a backpacking trip, for instance), the wheels in your natural leaders' heads start turning. Before the campout is over they are already planning unsupervised campouts, but with their friends outside of Scouting. It would be easy to fix Wood Badge. Merely announce: "You are going to hear a lot about "leadership" in this course, but remember always that the purpose of the Patrol Method is Adventure, the leadership for which can be measured by competency at a physical distance from adults. Notice that your Wood Badge Patrols are spaced at Baden-Powell's minimum 300 feet apart. That should be your goal upon returning to your own Troop. Notice also that your Wood Badge Patrol Hike is taken separately from the other Patrols and without a Staffer. This should be the expectation for your Troop's Patrol Leaders as well, if only in the context of monthly campouts." Go ahead, jrush: Read that out-loud. I dare you! How long did it take? 40 seconds? The problem with Wood Badge is that the idea of taking even a minute away from the "Game of Life" presentation to mention Baden-Powell's Patrol System is abhorrent. A colossal waste of time, as you say. To answer T2Eagle's thread topic question: Wood Badge changes the meaning of "Patrol Method" from teaching Patrol Leaders the nuts and bolts of how to conduct their own Patrol Adventures, to teaching boys how to "understand" leadership theory. A perfect example of this is the Patrol Method session of Scoutmaster Specific Training, where the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol has been removed and replaced with EDGE theory! It is easy to measure the result of Wood Badge training: How many Wood Badge Staffers or Course Directors even know that the goal of Real "Patrol Leader Training" is to conduct Patrol Hikes without adult supervision, or that Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System is 150-300 feet between Patrols? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000? In other words, the overwhelming majority of Wood Badge Staffers literally do not know the "first thing" about the Patrol Method. The cure for that empty feeling caused by Wood Badge is to read Green Bar Bill's two (2) volume third edition of the Handbook for Scoutmasters. See: http://tinyurl.com/ydutcxo Yours at B-P's 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net (This message has been edited by kudu)

Real Patrol Leadership is measured in feet or miles: It's not Baden-Powell's "Patrol System" unless the Patrols camp at least 150-300 feet apart (in a circle around the Scouters' campsite). How many Wood Badge Staffers take that practice home with them? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000? It's not Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Method unless the Patrols hike and camp without adult supervision. How many Wood Badge participants take that practice home with them? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000? Yours at Baden-Powell's basic 300 feet, Kudu http://inquiry.net/traditional/wood_badge/index.htm

The cure for the Wood Badge "leadership skills" version of the Patrol Method is William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's two volume 3rd edition of the Handbook for Scoutmasters. About $20 per volume. See: http://tinyurl.com/ydutcxo Bill Hillcourt was hired by James West in the 1920s to replace "modern" leadership theory with what Hillcourt called the "Real" Patrol Method (see the Scouter.Com Site Dedication in the lower right-hand corner of your screen). Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

When did y'all discover backpack waist-straps? Not until the late 1960s for me. A non-Scouting friend showed me; I don't remember them in the BSA Fieldbook. Waist-straps were to backpacking as stirrups were to calvary. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Baden-Powell might recognize Schiff's points 2-5 as "Pluck." "Pluck" is the first word of the first chapter of B-P's 1900 manual Aids to Scouting. The military book's wild popularity with boys during the Boer War led to his invention of Boy Scouting: Pluck, Self-Reliance, and Discretion. The main key to success in scouting is to have pluck and self-reliance. I will show you what these are, and how to get them. PLUCK. -- Many people will tell you that pluck is not a thing that can be taught a man; it is either born in him or he has not got it at all. But I think that, like many other things, it is almost always in a man, though, in some cases, it wants developing and bringing out. The pluck required of a scout is of a very high order. A man who takes part in a Balaclava Charge is talked of as a hero, but he goes in with his comrades all round him and officers directing; he cannot well turn back. How much higher, then, is the pluck of the single scout who goes on some risky enterprise alone, on his own account, taking his life in his hand, when it is quite possible for him to go back without anybody being the wiser; but he carries it out because he thinks the result to his side will be worth the risk he runs. Such pluck is very much the result of _confidence_in_himself_ (Robert Baden-Powell, Aids to Scouting, 1900)

What I look for in a Patrol Leader: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPuYPZ_pRak&feature=related The film I show for leadership/citizenship training: http://inquiry.net/patrol/training/movies.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

I swear I don't make this stuff up: "Remember, the [Five (5) Mile Hike] requirements aren't to complete the hike or ride - they center around map and compass use..." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

The purpose of BSA Wood Badge is to screw American Boy Scouts out of Bill Hillcourt's position-specific Patrol Leader Training (Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol), and replace it with generic POR "leadership skills." Everything else is just commentary. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

I wonder when this rule about hats in dining halls originated. I collected 35 photographs and drawings of Scouts and Scouters wearing hats indoors (even during church services), but I couldn't find any of them doing so while eating: http://inquiry.net/uniforms/hats/inside.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net