johndaigler

Check pg 226 of your Wolf handbook -- The Conservation Award requires completion of all parts of two of the following three electives: 13, 15, 19. I can't think of any other instance that gives value to completing all parts of Electives. jd

Fencing is OK?? If we allow hard-contact sports like football and wrestling and . . . sword fighting ... What exactly is the argument against Tae-Kwon-Do??

Jman, WELCOME!!! I'm also a Wolf DL. Our pack's only fundraiser presently is the popcorn sale. In Feb. or so we'll see the fruits of that labor. Our pack shares roughly a third with our Dens. The better your boys sell, the more $ comes back to the Den. This isn't perfect escpecially because there's never any money till February. I charge my guys $1 a meeting ($30 for the year) for Den dues. That gave me a bit more startup cash and enabled us to get some supplies for activities. We're developing a process that rewards individual boys for their efforts. The more PC they sell the more they earn for their "individual accounts" which can be used toward uniforms, equipment, day camp, etc. Also, we're looking to expand beyond PC sales. It seems that fund raisers, in general, are: a pain to manage; aimed at the same people (parents) again and again; don't usually leave the supporter with a feeling of value for their money (beyond the good will donations give them); and require the same effort again and again annually or more often. So, we're investigating "Schoolpop" - a website for net shopping that kicks a little bit back to your org. everytime someone shops. We have more to learn before we dive in, but it just might be the way to go. . . Good Luck, jd

An "earnable" religious award for adults within each of the Religious Orgs. The "by nomination" types are fine and deserving of their huge respect. But, I think, if there were earnable RA's for adult Scouters, we would see a dramatic increase in the number of Scouts who pursue and earn the Religious Awards -- the end result -- Many more Scouts demonstrating growth and learning within their own Faiths. Merry Christmas! Happy Holidays!! Happy New Year!! jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

Hola, Friends, This isn't a Bill that Politicians or Scouters should support. Senator Frist may mean well, though I'm skeptical. We're a private group, let's be content with our choices. To think that we somehow deserve special treatment compared to other private groups is . . . I don't know, . . . arrogant, ignorant, self limiting, self agrandizing, . . . whatever! It's just wrong. We have such support around the country, we don't need special treatment -- we're special because of how we treat others! We were chartered by Congress in a different time, and world. Does anyone for one minute think that BSA could get such a thing accomplished today? Would we want or need it? Our support of "American" values is more a support of "good" values. It doesn't help us when anyone, ourselves or others, see us as somehow a junior agency of the US govt. National ought to step up, thank Sen. Frist for his concern, and ask people NOT to support the bill. Instead of good PR for Frist we would claim the higher moral road and a little good PR for the BSA. BTW, If the best bit of criticism we have of the ACLU is a complaint against a 70 year old quote, it sounds like a serious appreciation of their efforts over the last 69 years!!! Do we want to go find 70 year old quotes from the major political parties?? Maybe we could find an interesting tidbit in a 70 year old Scout Handbook. Come on! Respectfully, (Well, everything but that last paragraph, anyway!) jd

fgoodwin, my point, though cut off, was, "So what?" The ACLU often sees us as an example of the govt. not living up to its responsibilities. They can't have a problem with us -- that is to say, it doesn't matter if they do. As a private organization, we are who we are. Our choices are ours to make, ours to live with, and ours to change when, and as, we see fit. The govt. doesn't have that luxury, and the ACLU is determined to remind them of their obligations and their legal requirements. I'm not sure it needs to matter to us, more than any other obstacle we face. Television, high school sports, drugs, lack of trained leaders, rising poverty, obesity, and "indifferent" (I wish I had a better word for this) parents are all larger problems for us. The ACLU isn't going away. We're not going away. What they do impacts the govt. directly, and us only indirectly. The "military based" units have taken this in stride. I think we can, too. I mean no disrespect, nor do I think your concern is foolish. But, I do think that we can weather this storm easily and can focus on issues that impact us directly and that we can impact. UG, poetic, but a bit cryptic for me. Who's doing the blowing? The ACLU? jd

I don't think this is about the BSA, but about the USA. Scouts won't be derailed or even dented (props to UG) by ACLU actions like this. The vast majority of Americans see Scouts in a truly positive light. I think we should(and can)remain above feeling like the ACLU is either winning or losing some titanic battle against the BSA. If we accept the situation as a conflict then someone has to win and someone has to lose. It's like the red and blue states, if w

Our boys meet right after school, so we have the Cubs use one of those many extra pockets on their bookbags as a permanent home base for their handbooks.

"We do give out some certificates that are made up on the spot. They are for cars that deserve SOMETHING, but didn't win one of the other awards." Shane, can you give an example? Who decides which cars deserve something but didn't win? What's the criteria? How many? Thanks, jd

ScoutNut - Great info and view. I think that's a SUPERB understanding of the rules!! wyomingi, the Scout is going to need his parents involvement to earn the Religious Award. Even after reading the other comments, IMHO, you should still be the one to contact the parents up front. I know, easier to say than to do, but . . . jd

Welcome, MissyMoose!! The Whittlin Chip can be earned before Bear year. However, this "certification" only gives the Cub permission to have a knife at "approved" Cub activities. We "approve" our Cubs using a knife only for very specific activities. These would NOT include Den or Pack meetings, GoSeeIts or any trip. More to the point, we never approve Cubs "carrying" knives. At our last campout, there were craft activities that involved some knife work. If Cubs had their Whittlin Chip, they could use their knives. However, the knives were brought by and kept by parents up to and immediately following the activity. I handled the knife work for those Cubs without their Chips. It's probably too late to reconsider the knives as popcorn prizes, but ... jd BTW, Foto makes a great point about demonstrating leadership and the concerns of/for the other Cub families. Understandable that you'd be uncomfortable dealing with the Dad who's wearing one, but imagine how the other parents and Cubs probably feel. Though, it's a lot easier to write about then to do it... (This message has been edited by johndaigler)(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

I would certainly bow to Eamonn's thinking, but it doesn't seem that the situation allows for the Scout to PLAN or DEVELOP anything if these projects are as "canned" as I inferred from Featherswillfly's original post. jd

good thoughts from everybody above, but the Scout is still a boy -- don't forget to talk to the parents. jd

TPs source article doesn't make the connection he wishes it would. The article says that homosexuality is a morale (that's not a typo) issue for RC clergy, and a continuing organizational disfunction. There's NO connection between the Church's pedophilia crisis and this article. There's certainly no connection to be made on behalf of BSA. jd

OneHour's career path seems familiar -- I'll bet it's pretty accurate for a big chunk of us!! If you care enough to get frustrated by a faulty local program, you can bet you're just about to VOLUNTEER for some heavy lifting!!! NewCubDad, just because your story is too common, don't get the wrong idea. There are tens of Thousands of Cubs and Boy Scouts in every state in this country. It just takes a caring adult like yourself to bring a local Pack closer to the many quality programs that exist all around us. You're primed to do great things! Remember to celebrate all the good you're doing for each boy that comes into contact with you. It's hard but don't spend time fretting over the boys whom you aren't impacting . . . yet. Cubs and Parents recognize quality effort and quality caring. Be patient and keep working, and sooner than you'd guess the whole Pack will be turning toward you and the Quality Program you've set as a goal for yourself. Of course, you'll be running the show (CM, CC?!), so it'll be a lot easier AND at that point, you can blame yourself for whatever good/bad is happening for all those boys you aren't reaching today!! As far as your Bobcat Ceremony, I don't think you need to apologize for anything. Your Cub parents aren't dumb, they get what happenend, and who's responsible for what. The real question is how are you going to make today better than yesterday. My Bobcats went through a slightly better (just barely)fiasco of a ceremony the other night. I felt exactly the same angst you did. Instead of ranting (which I would have done a few weeks ago), I chose a different approach. Here's a piece of an email I sent to all our pack Leaders: "Thanks, *****, for the Bobcat ceremony. It was a highlight for all my boys -- and for my son Jamie, without hesitation, the favorite part. I know the ceremony didn't come off exactly as planned, but that shows one of the things that I love about Scouting. None of it is about military precision or correct details -- it's about celebrating the boys, and having fun. "Do your best" isn't just something we help the boys memorize, but it's something we truly believe and honor. All those boys, and we as a Pack are better today than we were yesterday because of last night, and all its parts, and all its people." And here's one leaders response: I agree with John, last night was a successful meeting and I must also say that **** did a great job with the Bobcat Cermony! I feel strongly that the Pack Meetings are a time to really recognize the accomplishments of the boys and the value of the ceremony was obvious as we could see the boys and how proud they were! (In fact, Den 2's 4th-year veterans commented "Wow, they're lucky to have a cool ceremony, we didn't have one like that") Great job to ****! It wasn't about faking it either, my email was truthful and sincere. It's just about looking at things a little differently. All you have to do is start rolling the snowball down the hill . . . "Yesterday's gone -- Let's start thinkin' about Tomorrow." Chin Up, Good Luck, jd

Can these projects be used in other ways?? Maybe they're more appropriate for service projects by other Scouts than Eagle candidates? If they're so ready-made, they might even make interesting Cub Den service projects, but not knowing the details ... (Careful with this approach, you might make your point and/or insult them to the point of losing even an appropriate amount of support.) It's hard not to be appreciative. Interesting problem -- too MUCH support . . . Though their intent is laudable , they're really doing a dis-service to the Eagle2B. Just be up front with them and let them know E2Bs can't do such "canned" projects and still complete the requirements and intent of the Eagle Project. Good Luck!! jd

There's one for each month in the Program Helps.

Welcome, NewCubDad!!!!!! BW, as usual, has explained it pretty clearly. You are not on your own, though -- even at those moments when it feels like it. This electronic campfire is perfect for you. You'll find more help here, quicker and clearer than anywhere else!!! Ask a question or search these forums for a topic and you'll find opinions and answers from some truly wonderful Scouters. They'll help, advise, offer options, and redirect when you're joyfully, or angrily, sprinting down the wrong path!! The BSA has lots of good resources for you to access through your Pack, Scout Office or on-line --- use them all!!! Sounds like you've seen the Program Helps. There's also the Cub Scout Leader Book, the How-To Book, the Song Book, Guide to Safe Scouting, and of course the boys' Handbooks, and others. It doesn't sound like your Pack is doing much that follows THE Program. That may frustrate you, but for the most part it doesn't have to slow you down much. You can do the right thing with your den and watch as the rest slowly start to get it. It's been hard for me not to be angry with Pack Leaders (I'm a first year Wolf Leader, also) who don't seem to get it. And it's taken me a few months, but I'm slowly figuring out that if I do the right things with my boys, everything else starts to lose its power to frustrate me. My boys are having a blast, and learning tons! Second graders talk to other 2nd graders and word gets around -- we grew so fast we had to split and we're still too big! All the chaos that exists in the Pack really doesn't seem to matter to the boys -- and so I slowly came to realize it needn't matter so much to me. My Den and I are slowly having an impact on everyone else and the pack is changing and growing more, now that I've stopped hammering with a sledge hammer about the evils of the world and started spending more time celebrating the good things my boys do, and the cautious baby steps I see others taking. Sorry to carry on. Simply, there's tons of support here for you -- experienced Scouters and newbies who are in the exact same boat as you at the exact same time. There's a lot of work in your future -- don't forget to take breathers -- but if you remember to have FUN with a PURPOSE, you'll do great!! We all wish you well!!! Keep in touch!!! jd

Scoutnut, I differentiate between the homemade ones and the official ones. The homemade ones involve the boys and start to show a team mentality and personality. I agree, those are great! I wish we didn't make such a point of differentiating between Tigers, Cubs, and Webelos. The official flags are just one more way we darken the line between those 3 sub-groups -- not to mention the uneccesarily added cost of having to own three flags per Den. jd

Participation ribbons (or "Derby" patches or certificates or "segments" or whatever) are fine. It's those goofy "made-up" awards that the kids see through. If you're really set on them, make them up ahead of time and let the kids know they'll be awarded - I guarantee the kids will open your eyes and show you how they feel about "Booyah" awards!! Even the Tigers will see them for what they're worth. The "beauty" awards are OK if they're kept to a minimum and categorized by grade/rank. My real concern is the three-foot tall winner's trophy!!! Yikes!!! Gonna stop that one in its tracks this year! I like Anarchist's plan! We use the "segment" program, but give the full-blown Derby patch to every participant (for every Derby). This year I'm gonna pitch for the segments as participation awards for everyone and limit the "Derby" patches like Anarchist does. jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

as in other threads . . . Organizationally, we need to practice "Thrifty" as well as we preach it. Den Flags are just another example, as is, the fact that one sided flags are decorated with numerals that come two to a pack. Beyond the thrift factor, having differing Den flags is divisive -- like different uniform pieces for "Tigers, Cubs and Webelos". jd

Do you have a pack Chaplain? What are hi/her responsibilities? Is he/she a committee member? Thanks, jd

I believe many Cub parents will buy the pants if we show that we as adult Cub Leaders value them. But let's, organizationally, take a look at ourselves when it comes to Cub uniforms. . . The present Cub uniform pant could be redesigned to be more practical and last longer. Each year, we ask Cub families to buy a new neckerchief, handbook, hat (yes, I know it's optional but you can see my point), even the belt buckle is supposed to change. We don't set these financial challenges for Boy Scout families, and they are much more likely to get better use out of all these pieces. A staffer at the Scout Office suggested to me that the reason we don't have a Council Uniform Recovery Plan (sharing closet) is that we make money off new unis. Sure, that's just one person's comment, but . . . If we're want to teach "Thrifty", then we ought to demonstrate it. We could make uniforming better for Cub parents, more UNIFORM, and a better methodology and tool for use with Cubs if we rethought a few approaches. The Cub Uniform is often viewed as "divisive" and de-uniforming, because it sorts our boys out into categories. I think we can use changes in the uniform to bring our boys together. BTW, (and I know I should start a new thread, but...), we should stop sorting Cubs out as "Tigers, Cubs Scouts and Webelos" when we wish to talk about the entire group or program. It's fine when we're pointing out necessary differences, but that phrase, like the varying uniforms leads to separation not uniformity and team. jd

IslandEagle, WELCOME!!!! Though, of course, we all wish your first post could have been more about Scouting and/or college -- if you've got time in your study schedule, look to see if there's a local troop or pack around that needs an eaglet fresh from the nest!! Good Luck!! Now, about your post. . . We all sense, and understand, your anger and frustration. But, if you want better ideas from this crowd, they'll need better details. Have you considered having your Mom sign on and share her version of the situation. If she's directly involved and there at the scene, she'll be able to set the stage for some legitimate problem solving. I hope it works out for the sake of the boys who are still there in the troop. jd

My Unit's story is similar,(more Cubs selling less popcorn) so I won't boar you with details - just a few questions. Is there a way - other than going through Council - to determine the entire range of TE products? On the website, you have to go by Council to see what products are available to your Unit. Also, I pitched TE with the idea that they need to have a smaller "walk and eat" pack for under $5. We're trying to sell at local festivals, etc. and folks would "gobble em up" (pun intended!) while they walk around and look at the art, or fall activities, or whatever. I think this would help fight Sparkie's concerns, too! Jump on the bandwagon and email Trail's End!! jd