johndaigler

Pete T Northmoss - Welcome!!!!!!!! But, you're not going to find any support for your SPL at this campfire. The real question is how it got to this point and how you're all gonna work together to make it better. jd

Eamonn, I don't know if your points were completely directed at me, but you quoted "redirect" and I think that was mine. My point was not to suggest that it was the District's responsibility, or that District staff had the POWER to "redirect" Unit action, but rather that when a Unit is troubled and seemingly making organizationally undesired choices, then where would they turn, other than to District staff for info, ideas, and experience? Perhaps, I could have been clearer with my term "redirect" - I meant redirect their thinking, not their actions. You gave "redirect" more authority than I

oh, B6, I forgot to ask . . . what part of Joisey??? We spent three years in Hunterdon County, before moving out to IL last year. jd

Blackie 6, WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck and Have FUN!!! Stop waiting. Either the rest will catch up or they won't. There's no time to lose, if you hope to keep the excitement and interest of the boys you know you have. You're already ahead of the game because you're scheduling training. Among the resources that the Pack should supply you with are: Den Leaders Handbook, Den Leaders How-To Book, 2004-2005 PROGRAM HELPS (!!!!!), and Tiger Handbook. Of course there are other resources, as well. Don't overwhelm yourself though, if it's not fun for you, you'll have a tough time makin

Way to go, Anonymous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jd

Hey - Eamonn, I guess I expect District staff to be able to help the Unit through this. Perhaps, I'm assuming too much when I think, that District staff is better trained and more experienced than Unit Leadership, though obviously, that wouldn't ALWAYS be the case. I hope, when the Unit runs out of ideas or starts making poor decisions, then District/Council/National form additional layers of Quality leadership to help redirect the Unit. In this particular case, there seems to be a collection of Units who aren't quite on the right path. Sure, this is the Unit(s) issue, but if we're no

WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good Luck and Have Fun!!! jd

13 or more in a den? Membership limits? Parents won't spin off? Whose running these Packs???? Where's the District Leadership? We started August with 7 in my Wolf Den. By Sept. 1, we were at 12 and today we're at 16! You can't help Cubs experience a quality program with a dozen in the den. We decided to split when we realized we were going to hit 12. Oct. 1 was the split date, but the extra 4 boys complicated the splitting process so we'll officially become two dens on the 7th or so. It was a huge struggle to find leadership. And we may lose a boy because the parent wanted

2CD - Thanks, I was unaware that DEs were evaluated this way. Though, I'd like to find the thread where this is explained and justified . . . Trying desperately to stay on the topic. All of 2CD's other points also make sense, but they seem to me to represent a luxury based on success through convenience. Not that that's a bad thing , but aren't there many, many "One Pack Towns" in the nation? I imagine most boys would have to travel a few miles to access a new Pack. Evmori, Is the "Popular" pack so large it's starting to trip over itself?? OK, so the struggling Pack

Evmori - Are there reasons why a Commissioner or anyone else at the District or Council level prefer two Packs over one larger Pack?? I'm not District, so I don't know. But, from a plain ol' DL's view, I wouldn't immediately see the advantage of having two separate Packs in this situation. Would allowing the struggling Pack to dissolve and focusing on strengthening the "Popular" Pack be a possible solution? If Kids are drawn to Pack "A", then there's something attractive about it. If it's not their Program, what is it? How can you use those aspects of the Pack to help

ScoutNut - for Pack activities and Day camp the segment decision is made by our Advancements Chair. All our boys who went to Day Camp will receive: Archery and BB Gun Shooting Belt loops and the following segments: swimmer bus (because they rode a bus to go swimming) fish handtools bridge (I think this is a segment for crossing over, but we're giving it to the boys for their work on the ropes bridges and the ropes course) traget galaxy (looks li

I tried to warn ya, Kenk! Now, instead of a balmy 65 degrees, you have to deal with the full 98.6 degree heat from Tropical Storm BOB!!!! There's no way around this. Keeping things the way they are, is inappropriate -- you're just not following the rules - rules established and tested to be in the best interests of the Cubs. But, it's not a crime (well, IMHO, not an unfixable one, anyway) it's a matter of weight and which team members are carrying which portion of that weight. Now, as I step carefully out onto Kenk's rapidly melting ice and see the sharks circling. . .

Thanks, KS!

Rip - I remember the type of Scout patches you mentioned. This program is similar - particularly the camp patches that had the year by year segments around the center circle. In fact, this is probably an outgrowth of that patch history. This is a CUB program that is optional by council - perhaps even by Unit if the Council agrees, so you may not see them at all. If your Scout shop had them, you'd know, because they take up quite a bit of room, (Our shop stocks over 125 different segment patches) and are used so frequently that they keep a lot in stock. They're not special order

BW - This isn't even a nice try. It's a poor word game! "johndaigler writes "Nice try, but "degree" is not a measurement." Really? Lets look at the Webster shall we? degree n. A unit of of measurement in a scale. HMMM would you like a chance to withdraw that statement john? I will stand by my statements and I listed for you the BSA documents to prove that objective measurements exist. This is not a guessing game it is a structured program. " Please re-read your own dictionary definition again and then use it without paraphrasing. A degree is NOT a measurement

back again - BadenP, that's a pretty fair and clear summary - thanks. BW, I'd offer a draw, but somehow I don't see that as an option here . . . So, here's a thought or two: "A degree...a measurement. Quality is a measurable thing. We measure scouting quality with specifc measureable scouting elements. You either do something or you don't. You have or have not, you did or did not, things happened or they did not. The quality of scouting can and is measured objectively." Nice try, but "degree" is not a measurement. It's a standard, designed to create a consistent

Eagle, Yeah, Jambo-East!!! But I don't remember if I was a Purple "F" or a green "H" . . . Somewhere, I know my Mom could find it and tell me!!! I think Danny was an honorary Eagle, but it was a lot harder in those days!!!! jd

At next Monday's Pack meeting we'll announce the beginning of a local program to recover unused Scouting uniforms and equipment!! Thanks, for the mental spark cajuncody!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're tops on our mailing list!!!! jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

Thanks, Acco and CubbingCarol, I was absolutely unaware of these STATE Badges. I'll be on it before you even read this! This, BTW, is one of my favorite parts of these forums. As we share back and forth, you can pick up TERRIFIC info on topics that you never thought of and/or are not specifically part of the original conversation! Just one more reason to keep coming back momma -- learning things that you never knew you never knew!! (anyone else hearing Disney music in the background?!??!!) Hey, Kenk, I get the idea about sharing responsibility and talents. I'm thinking how to

BP? Whoever taught BP his "Scouting" skills and philosophies? Who trained the developers of our first training classes? Who trained the developers of our initial forays into a quality program? Was it "Quality" as first sprung from the heart of BP?? Perhaps, god-sent like a gospel?? Just because we don't know their names, do you contend that they didn't exist???? Who developed the "square knot"?? Do we think it was his first try with a rope? "Quality unit Awards" measure consistency with pre-determined program and program goals, they do NOT measure Quality of program. As I said, I

WELCOME, Rip!!! Though I wonder how it is that you lived my life, while I was living it!!!!!!! You'd be amazed how many of us lived (and loved) those exact moments - seperated by a year or two, and a state or two, sometimes even a country or two!! My story stymied at Life, but other than that, I might have been in your Philmont Crew ('75, '76) or at the '73 Jamboree with you or a dozen other "Rippish" Scouters. Did you have to live through the red beret years???? I(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

eisely - Thanks for the story. But help me understand. I've got the background, but not the details. Has Norwalk issued permits to groups similar to the BSA? This is discrimination against the Scouts because . . . jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

Not to digress too much, but, CC, is the "Texas Badge" an award????? Perhaps, it's like a Rank Step up toward the "New York" Award!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mommaspence, plan ahead so that any physical or outdoor activities have "rainy day" backups handy. Where do you meet? Don't forget to prepare the physcial environment!! Especially if it's your home! Wolves aren't generally ill intentioned - just messy, clu

Hola - I think, BW, your words confuse me. It seems you want to have this two different ways. I'm not sure these two sets of words from your last post go together very well. ..."By the way Bob, Im just curious which came first the quality leader or the people that trained them?" Easy... The quality program came first, then the leaders who learned how to do it, then the leaders who learned from them. " "what I am proposing isn't that "definition" of a quality leader is one who creates a quality program, but that the result of quality leadership is a quality program. "

AAAWWWWWWWOOOOOOooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! We Wolves welcome you, mommaspence!!!! And we all wish you gobs of luck and tons of FUN. Ask anything and here's the place to find an answer -- often more answer than you wanted!!! First, though, you are a Den LEADER. Sorry, but "Den Mother" is a bit archaic and all us alpha male Wolves get itchy when we hear it. Have you seen the "Program Helps"? It's a great starting point. With that, the handbook, and a few other resources, you're good to go -- well, at least good to get a running start! The "Program Helps" shows ide