John-in-KC

Mr Blake, Mr Secretary Robert Gates, late President of NESA (I assume he relinquished upon confirmation as SecDef) has a lot more credibility to make the statement than does Oliver North. Going to Congress in your official persona to explain the Administration position on an issue is one thing... Going to Congress as one of a group of individuals who've been told to testify openly and freely (soldier panels on conditions of service by various committees and subcommittees) is one thing. Going to Congress under subpoena to explain the direct actions of your official persona is another thing altogether. Majors and Lieutenant Colonels are supposed to do their work well nigh invisibly, unless they be in command. Last time I checked, Ollie was not a commander when assigned to the NSC

Baden, thanks for FOS. I'll never think of the Family campaign the same again. HOAC (my Council): Hand Over All Cash. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot: There is only one definition. HRB and TN: Our two Scout Reservations. PTC IMNSHO

As a youth... Taking my Brotherhood Oath in 1971. Canoeing with my Post from Needles to Lake Havasu in the spring of 1973. Boy, did our arms pump in the dead water of Havasu! As a Scouter... Seeing my son earn Brave and Warrior in the Tribe of Mic-O-Say at the great H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation. Seeing him earn Firebuilder in the Tribe at Camp Geiger Taking him to his Eagle Board of Review in the new Flag Mall pit at the Theodore Naish Scout Reservation. Seeing him walk through his High School regularly wearing a whole array of Scouting T-shirts and polos, and not being embarrased to be who he is. Seeing six young men (including him) at their Eagle Court of Honor, and the next day, having their picture on the HS home page! Trusting him enough as a person that the only guidance I gave him as he went to the Prairie Winds Music Festival honor band at KU was: Do the right thing and have fun.

Fred, I'm sorry, but Ollie and I took the same oath of office. He went for the power. The difference between someone like him and someone like General (and Secretary) Powell is General Powell's excellence caused him to be sought out, time and again. General Powell uses the reins of power for the good of the Nation. Ollie North wants POWER. Here we agree to disagree. Are you going to Relationships Week at PTC this year? I'm looking at the 08 conference cycle; that's when NLAS should have their conference. Sorry to have to agree to disagree with your vis a vis Colonel North, but ... that's life.

Brent, The 110 million number sounds as though the author is taking all who ever walked into a Pack, Troop, Team, Post, or Crew meeting. Earlier in the thread, the number thrown out for all boys who started Boy Scouting was 51 million. That feels closer to correct. There's a key point missing in this particular bean counting drill: THE PROGRAM HAS BEEN REDESIGNED, TO MAKE THE TRAIL TO EAGLE MORE COHERENT! I still have my (or rather my Owl patrol mate has my) 1968 Boy Scout HB (1965 edition). The program then was 5 MB to Start (1 ER), 10 to Life (5 ER), and 21 to Eagle (11 ER). Today's program is 6 to Star (4 ER), 11 to Life (+3 or 7ER), and 21 (12 ER) to Eagl. Look at the difference. The Scout is over halfway, both in terms of gross MBs and Eagle Required MBs, when he makes Life. Unless he did Swimming and Hiking and Biking as well as Emergency Prep and Lifesaving, he's on the downslope when he finished his Life BOR. Without regard to the difficulty of MBs or the "correctness" of the Eagle Required List, the fact is, the advancement program is more coherent. That makes the trail easier to follow. To me, that's a good thing.

This came from the PD at Camp Sawmill, H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation. It's also been done at Camp Lone Star and Camp Piercing Arrow (each of those camps on our great Scout Reservation beds down 500+ Scouts and Scouters a night during the season): We are the Bartle Orchestra, following the count. (Audience repeat) And people come from miles just to hear us play. (Audience repeat) Ich kenn spiele (or I can play it...) (audience repeat), Du kenn spiele (or You can play it...) (audience repeat), Spielde der (insert instrument here). Then the conductor points to the section that is assigned that particular instrument and they make the noise. Our dining halls divide easily into 4 sections, I've seen combinations of: Tuba Bagpipes Drums Flutes Trumpets Horns Trombones Instruments which have fun body movements work. I think a Bear Family Camp staffer is going to take it to the Theodore Naish Scout Reservation for 9 year olds to have fun with this summer It can also be used for Pack meetings and even Blue and Golds!

LH, I'm not a historian, but from what I've seen, B-P accounted faith as something the family and the Scout were responsible for, not the unit. I'll see if I can dredge up some quotes from "Footsteps of the Founder" which discuss this. As to the debate, I'll say this: Within my home church, I've offered to Pastor that I'll make sure any Boy or Girl Scout going through confirmation gets taken care of for their religious award for Scouting. While I'd LIKE the National Advancement Committee to add "Earn your faith specific/age specific religious award" to the requirements for First Class, I'm not holding my breath. I'm just happy that the 3 Scouts in my sons' confirmation class earned their awards on the trail!

BTW lawnboy, I went back and re-read much of the thread which developed from your October posts. There was some good advice there, including meeting with the priest and seeing what was going on. Feedback is a gift. We cannot help you if you don't tell us what's transpiring and what the CC and you have done to work the problem in the meantime. If the priest is wanting a Catholic Youth only Pack, there may be a legitimate reason to approach another Chartered Partner and start another Pack. Again, you need to sit down with the priest soonest, with the DE and Commissioner there, and get this sorted out!!!

Scoutnut gave a good list of the basics, he also stated ground truth. I've helped a troop fold up shop with its old Chartered Partner and come over to us. In their case, the CP no longer wanted the unit in its facilities and basically told our Council they would no longer meet the Charter Agreement. Changing a Chartered Partner who WANTS a Scout unit is a dicey thing. It takes planning and coordination with the professional staff, your District Commissioner, and the outgoing Chartered Partner. If the Chartered Partner decides to keep or revitalize a Scouting unit, the Council will encourage them to keep the property, and will certainly give them the unit number and its seniority! As far as "A Scouter being Reverent", the CP is perfectly within their rights. They are not asking the leaders to participate in their parish, they are asking them to be faithful people. Sorry, I cannot get excited about that. After all, your adult leaders did agree to abide by the Declaration of Religious Principle. Short version: There needs to be a sit down, soonest. The folks at the table should be: Executive Officer of the Chartered Partner (parish priest) His COR You the CM The CC The DE The UC/ADC/DC (as available) for the unit. The root issues need to go on the table. Maybe the root is faithfulness of Scouters, but somehow I think there is something deeper. Again, it's time to remember that the licensee of Scouting is the parish, not the unit. The unit is formed BY THE PARISH to further its youth development aims, using the tools provided by BSA.

I hate to break bad news to you, but a shotgun blast of Scouters from around the Nation are not going to matter a hoot and a holler. Your organization efforts need to be focused at the Chartered Partners of your council. They need to be calling for a special business meeting, NOT letting the Executive Board make this decision. The institutions of your area who license (charter) Scouting from your Council are the folks who matter in this!!! YIS

What both Beavah and Anarchist said. A long time ago, in a Council far far away, I was a member of Explorer Post 7. We were young men from Troop 110, and we decided to go down the Colorado River from Needles CA to Lake Havasu. We planned a 3 day weekend, but before we got to that weekend, it was non-negotiable: We all took ARC Canoeing. Every one of us had over 12 hours in the water, fore and aft paddling positions, getting in and out, handling swampings, the whole shooting match. Now, as Beavah said, ACA Canoeing is probably better than ARC Canoeing, but the point remains: Getting on OUR MISSOURI RIVERS (that KC doesn't mean anything but Kansas City) DEMANDS HANDS-ON TRAINING. If you do not have the time and energy for hands-on training for all participants, you don't have the time to take this trip!!! We're coming up on high discharge season, as the spring rains will fill the tributaries, the Mighty Mo herself, and the old gal the Mississippi. While it's not whitewater, it's active water, with LOTS of flotsam, and there are more than a few interesting currents on our Missouri rivers. ADULTS AND YOUTH NEED HANDS-ON TRAINING. I cannot say this enough.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Dew, dew dew dew, dewdy do da dew da dew Dewdy do da dew da dew dewdy do da dew da dewwwwwww Dew, dew dew dew, dewdy do da dew da dew Dewdy do da dew da dew dewdy do da dew da dewwwwwww Don't worry, be happy....

National would be well served to get rid of the ball cap and substitute a "boonie" hat that has some actual utility. At the very least National should look at the fatigue cap formerly used by the US Army for year-round wear... at least it has ear flaps for chilly winter days. Baseball caps leave the ears exposed to sunburn.

Sounds OK to me, but the best person to run it by for a "what do you think" is your District Advancement Chairman. His staff are the folks who will do the "buy-in". I wish him well

Gogators, Based on your most recent post, the Uniform Inspection for all (youth and adults) appears to be your best course of action! Let us know how things work out!

Respect, responsibility, caretaking. You were their SM, not their parents. You were a helper in their molding. With luck, they'll plead, and then you can get really creative on their sentence. Replacing all the boxes comes to mind, followed by lots of community service hours. A good lecture on Helpful and Friendly might not be out of order either.

Pint, Thanks for posting this. I really liked this part: 3. Restrictions to youth Membership on the basis of religious belief It is not acceptable to deny entry to, or persuade a young person to leave, the Movement because of his or her religious beliefs. However, the Religious Policy of the Association prohibits Membership to anyone who denies the spiritual side of human beings or the existence of a spiritual power greater than any human being. Even as a confessing Christian, this statement makes clear, simple and elegant sense for Scouting. Would that BSA said it this simply!

As a Troop Advancement coordinator I worked alongside the SM as a young man reached critical mass towards Eagle. Our technique was to send the SM to Council with an Advancement Report which covered the Scouts' critical records (TF-Life, Eagle required, and selected optional MBs). If the Registrar said, "he lacks.....", we dropped the Advancement Report. To be frank, our problem is getting unearned (keying error by council's data entry clerks) MBs back out of ScoutNet.

The Pack my son was in has ridden a float for Independence Day and walked/rode bikes for the same. 8-10 year olds can do 2 miles or so; I've seen it happen. Leaders should make sure they have plenty of water for hydration on the way, particularly in spring and summer parades. I caution any Pack who contemplates a float for a parade to read and heed the G2SS guidelines about youth on floats. Remember the thread we had here about the kid whose legs dangled... and who was then run over by his own trailer? That's not a good result!

What Beavah said. I have a really sick feeling when I hear of Districts who bring the Scout to a District function (RT, Commissioners meeting, or District Committee meeting) for the EBOR. To me, and assuming the Scout is one of those who has worked hard and well to earn Eagle, the EBOR should be a memorable evening for the young man. This means a site that's important to him, and members on the Board who are important to him. Fortunately, that's how my District operates.

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss02.html#e While we're at it, let's make sure of "qualified supervision": 1. Qualified Supervision All activity afloat must be supervised by a mature and conscientious adult age 21 or older who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children in his or her care, who is experienced and qualified in the particular watercraft skills and equipment involved in the activity, (emphasis ADDED) and who is committed to compliance with the nine points of BSA Safety Afloat. One such supervisor is required for each 10 people, with a minimum of two adults for any one group. At least one supervisor must be age 21 or older, and the remaining supervisors must be age 18 or older. All supervisors must complete BSA Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense training and rescue training for the type of watercraft to be used in the activity, and at least one must be trained in CPR. It is strongly recommended that all units have at least one adult or older youth member currently trained as a BSA Lifeguard to assist in the planning and conducting of all activity afloat. Here's what you asked about: 6. Skill Proficiency All participants in activity afloat must be trained and experienced in watercraft handling skills, safety, and emergency procedures. (a) For unit activity on white water, all participants must complete special training by a BSA Aquatics Instructor or qualified whitewater specialist. (b) Powerboat operators must be able to meet requirements for the Motorboating merit badge or equivalent. © Except for whitewater and powerboat operation as noted above, either a minimum of three hours' training and supervised practice or meeting requirements for "basic handling tests" is required for all float trips or open-water excursions using unpowered craft. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ May I suggest American Red Cross aquatics training for canoe, or taking your Crew through the BSA Canoeing Merit Badge curriculum as part of training to your activity??? Does this help?

Contact the Staff Advisor to the Lodge, a member of the Professional Service, or the SE, who is the Supreme Chief of the Fire. This sounds home-made, but they are the folks on the ground who can give you insight. They also can build a fire under the Lodge Chief to get off his fourth point of contact.

FB, If you are having challenges with the Lodge Advisor (a volunteer) and the Chief (either a youth member or a transitional Scouter), then two other resources are: - The Staff Advisor to the Lodge (Professional) - Supreme Chief of the Fire (the SE) BTW, If the Chapter Advisor is not providing the training and backup to the youth, and you are looking like you want to be an agent of change, do not be surprised if the District Chairman or the District Camping Operating Committee Chairman asks you to take over the CA role!! I agree the Lodge Officers and committee chairs should be the ones backstopping the Chapter Chief, but it may take some serious arm-twisting to get it done!

JBlake47... OK, let's revisit Scout Spirit ONE MORE TIME: Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. NOTE THE WORDS, SIR: EVERYDAY LIFE. That means time away from Scouting. Scout spirit is to extend the Oath, Law, Motto and Slogan beyond the 4 walls of the troop meeting and the 4 corners of the campground.

The Scout camps where I do Commissioner Service at, and my son staffs at: Daytime: BSA shorts, belt, socks, staff T-shirt. Appropriate shoes, appropriate headgear. My son and I wear plain tan boonie hats by the same folks who supply DOD (the brand is PROPPER). Class A (certain campfires and Sunday Chapel): Uniform of current basic chartered position, whether Scout or Scouter. Son is a camper in a neighboring council before he staffs. They wear Ventruing Green shirt and BSA green shorts. Their SE and Council Commissioner approve.