John-in-KC

Source, Welcome to the forums. I'm endorsing what scoutingagain says. The bottom line is I see no youth protection violation, no advancement violation, no behavior in your post which warrants removing the SM. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, the G2SS says what you said it did. That said, we do not know what your Chartered Partner has said regarding youth driving. Chartered Partners can lay down more restrictive conditions. Even with the most generous interpretation of policy, a young driver won't be supporting the Troop going on an ordinary weekend campout. G2SS says: AREA, REGIONAL, or NATIONAL Boy Scout event. Area is a specific geographic unit in BSA speak, as is region. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you are truly intent on wanting to remove the Scoutmaster, The first course of action is to visit with the Scoutmaster away from the meeting hall, over a cup of coffee, and ask why he does the things he does. If, after that, you're really convinced you need to burn a bridge, because you WILL DO THAT in your relationship to this man, then visit with the Chartered Organization Representative and the Institutional Head of the Chartered Partner. They're the folks who hire and fire the Committee Chair and COR. BTW, I hope you're trained and prepared to take on the duties! Have you considered the option of asking your Unit Commissioner or COR for some observations and some guidance?

Just a note: Perfectly normal and healthy kids can be a year behind their chronolgical peers. EagleSon went through kindergarten twice, malice aforethought. His mom and I decided way back when the physical growth and improvements in emotional maturity would be a blessing downstream, so he went from private K to public K rather than private K to public 1. We weren't the only ones in our neck of the woods doing it. As a result, he was 14 years + but only a 7th grade complete student when he went on his Philmont trek... yes, Philmont knew, and they signed off.

LH, Although I would hope someone at National runs an audit log on datafields such as birthdate being changed... at the end of the day, ScoutNet is a database, and a new birthdate isn't much more than 10 keystrokes/mouse clicks from completion. I recently wrote a Congressman in my State who is not my congresscritter. His database isolated by ZIP code constituents. I got past it by inputting a ZIP code in his district.

OGE, To follow CNY's note, HUH??? Why is it I can do a google image search and find a patch such as this? http://www.scatacook.org/photogallery/TG-Commissioner/TG-11-VenturingRoundtableCommissioner.jpg I can also find a Venturing RT staff patch...

Lisa, Well, today's the day in your neck of the woods. When the dust settles, would you be willing to give us your opinion on what happened? I think I'll believe you much more than MSNBC... Hunt, Thanks for the rundown. It'll be interesting to revisit it in July and again in November

Lisa, Went back and re-read your midnight post. I remember in my Venturing leader specific seeing an age chart of the demographics. Something of a fast up-ramp from 14/8th grade to a peak at 17 or so, then tapers off to 21. It's not a normal distribution. btw. Many of the 19-20 year old young people seem to have Scouting connections which justify an ongoing youth membership status, such as employment on a Camp Staff, or collegiate activities. While I'm writing you broad brush, I know you as a sister WoodBadger. I know you'll share info and feedback through your peers on the District Committee and with your Commissioner service. BW's post hit my mind on something: While I assume your chartered partners will be folks other than schools, is it possible that area high schools may be willing to recongize a Crew as a club on-campus? That may give the crew access to facilities and some expert faculty support... One thing my district used to do was have periodic officer's association meetings in conjunction wiht roundtable. Gave a chance for youth to get together (often with pizza...) and for cross-fertilization between youth officers and advisors. This dovetails real well with what emb021 said about Venturing RT... As I said, have fun with this. FWIW, as a recruiting target, you might consider talking with area HS band directors... they tend to have band leadership councils, but they don't often have the training tools for leadership. There's a potential for a win/win there...

Lisa is a District Membership Operating Committee Chairwoman.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! emb021, have you had your coffee today, kind Sir? "and carried out by the Venturings" OK, now I'm back... Lisa, thanks for the feedback. Helps target the comments emb hit VOA smack on... the Venturing Officers Association... it's a grouping of Crew youth leaders from your District or your Council (indeed, the VOA concept reaches all the way up to a National Youth Cabinet IIRC) who gather to pool resources and make even bigger things happen. I'd absolutely encourage interest inventories as these nascent crews come together. EagleSon has moved his primary youth membership to a Crew which has a lively arts emphasis. They're band/orchestra/choir/theater geeks... they're also the core of our camp staff for council Bear Resident Family Overnight Camp... longer story than I'll tell here. Point is, at HS level, interests matter. OK, population pool is adequate. We'll let that one drop. Co-Ed crews. Units will need to recruit and train women program and support staff. The rules of youth protection in Venturing are different, all the more so when having co-ed activities! Urgently recommend Venturing YP training for selected District Committee folks as well as the units... Activities Operations Committee and your Membership Committee both need to understand the deltas, so that the right resources can be available for events. Activity resources. If the emphasis of your Crews seems like it will be HA stuff, then I recommend your Council contact neighboring Councils. We've done Venturing overnight all-nighters at various climbing gyms in the area, but that adds up pretty darn fast. Access to a proper tower and COPE course can lower expenses for individual Crews as well as District/Council Venturing events. I like OGE's idea of an initial combined VLSC. The inital seminar is certainly unit-run, but the course can be unit or area, depending on resources. Showing the youth that the District leadership cares and is willing to assist with supporting the program will go a long way to embedding Venturing in your District. One final point: Horizontal integration of the various District Committee operating committees is a "must have" to provide Scoutings' side of the Charter Agreement support for these nascent Crews. Relationships, Training, Activities, and your Membership shop all have a role in making this happen. Have fun This is gonna be rewarding for you!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

http://www.lvrj.com/news/13794007.html http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jan/15/lawsuit/ http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20080114-1918-nv-kucinich-nevada.html http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/kucinich-should-be-allowed-to-debate-judge-rules/ I'm not a liberal. I do believe in our Constitution, though. I know we talk here, a lot, about freedom to worship (or for some people, freedom from worship). The First Amendment is about political speech, though. I find this between Mr Kucinish and MSNBC hugely interesting. I'm cynical enough to believe the corporate news organs are trying to limit political speech. I guess that's an unintended consequence of corporate news organs not just COVERING event, but CREATING an event!

My duty as a parent is to provide an appropriate environment for my son, and when he has them, his guests. Sadly, not every parent sees the world that way. How can a group of caring folk compensate for inappropriate behaviors? Safe Rides is one compensating tool. As long as we have parents who don't/won't provide proper environments for their kids, we need something like Safe Rides. Since IL has chosen a law which has a second order consequence of driving Safe Rides into the ground, I'll be sad for the 3d order consequences. Sure makes the issue of who sponsored this Venturing Crew moot, doesn't it?

I got my butt chewed in 1983 for wearing a wooly-pully instead of a 5-button. Wool sweaters as a layer went out the door when the Army Combat Uniform replaced the BDU a couple years back. Now, it's various zippered polypro garments. I just have this one itty bitty problem with polypro... Hydrocarbons BURN

Scott, In my Council, every MBC is input to ScoutNet. If a person has multiple registrations (ie MC, RT Staff, and Counselor), then he/she has all his positions listed. Does that make sense? Are we agreeing, but saying it differently?

Mr Dunlap was a great metal shop teacher. He taught me several gut-check sayings about life: "Wisdom is experience gained with tears." "All the moving parts have to work together, or the machine won't work." The second of those sayings applies to training and education! The learner has to recognize he/she has a gap in skills, and be willing to accept training to correct the gap. The trainer has to have both content and presentation skills. The environment has to minimize distractions to training, so both trainer and learner stay on task. There are multiple issues with mandatory training. I think a Chartered Partner is certainly within rights to require training and proficiency for adults to serve youth. I think, though, a Council mandating training automatically assumes obligations laying out said mandate. As we've seen in one thread, a Council decided an 8 hour version of an overnight, done indoors, was enough to get the trained card. To me, and perhaps Gunny, there's an old military term for that: Pencil-whipping. If the Council is going to mandate training, it assumes the obligation to provide instructors who know both the content and the delivery methods. Buffaloing either makes the whole matter a pile of Doctor (Colonel) Sherman T Potter's horse hockey. We ask new volunteers to give up time and occasionally money to attend the various training events BSA offers. We owe them a product which meets the need. I have a couple good friends who are on my Council's Executive Board. I will share my thoughts about training in general, and Council-imposed mandatory training in particular with them.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

gwd, Just read your Unit JLT at the house thread in the Patrol Method forum. It's one disadvantage of being parent and principal program officer: Your parent responsibilities tell you to get every opportunity for growth and development your child will smilingly accept. Your SM duties are to support the winner. Let your SPL have some of those "uh-oh" moments. Let him have some fairly merciless Roses and Thorns sessions. There's nothing that says you can't use tough love to help him grow and develop. In the meantime, would your son be interested in being the Quartermaster?

Lisa, 1) Are these crews competing for the same group of young people? If so, one or more will fail. There's a finite supply of HS students. 2) Did anyone do the interest inventories? Are HA crews where the need is? 3) Are any of the crews going to be co-ed? There's a 50% untapped audience in the upper teen level if they go men only. For that matter, are there any crews which want to be women only? 4) What about the support resources for these young people? Is your District Commish ramping up a Venturing-specific RT session? Are there trainers in place? Is there a running or nascent VOA? 5) Are the Council COPE people ready to handle older teens? Low or high COPE can be a great team-building exercise. 6) Has anyone thought of a Venturing outdoor weekend at the local Scout Reservation? Get COPE up and running; ditto the tower, ditto the ranges. LEVERAGE the full capability of G2SS in regards to ranges (remember, Venturers can use pistols). What about SCUBA? I'm just scratching the surface here... I'm sure Eamonn, emb021, and acco will have some more ideas. YIV John

One of EagleSon's facebook id photos is of him speaking at his ECOH. This August, he came straight from his job at Scout Camp one morning, in staff uniform (socks, shorts, belt, staff T-shirt, OA coup thong, Mic-o-Say coup thong) to marching band rehearsals. It was rather amazing the next day: No fewer than 10 bandsmen, all Tribesmen of Mic-o-Say, wore the paint responsibility shirts to practice Since the semester began, he's worn all manner of Scout T-shirts and polos to class.

Good. Active listening is an essential tool of the leader. Feedback is a gift. Bob, here's some feedback: Most of us here are unit serving, perhaps District level volunteers. While your message may well be valid, we're not the target audience. Bob, you need to get what you just wrote to the Professionals, Council Presidents, and Council Executive Boards who are putting these mandates for training in place. John I used to be an Owl C-40-05

Frankly I prefer the Army 5 button pullover to the wooly-pully.

In Lisa's post on MB Counselor registration policy, Bob White popped out of the woodwork. This is gonna be interesting. Bob White in colloquy with Beavah... Somebody get the popcorn machine running. We can sell tickets for this Strict adherence to the printed page v aim for the intent of the values and the methods

February 2007 edition of ACP&P is simply BSA #33088. No E on it. Because the Feb 07 edition implements the policy changes we've talked about in other threads here, make sure you have the version which on page iii has in a text box: "Pages with major changes as of February 2007 have been marked with UPDATE at the top of the page." Lisa, as for the specific answer to your question, you will find it on page 13, under the heading "Qualifications of Counselors." PM me if needed and I will quote verbatim for you.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

As I recall, the BSA Charter Agreement obligates the Chartered Partner to provide an adequate and suitable place to meet. For those like sctldr, who are given unsuitable facilities, I'd say it's time to have a talk with the CC, COR, UC and DE at the table.

gwd, It's going to be an interesting term for you. The youth deserve what they vote in; that's one lesson you can drive home in the coming months. If the new SPL decided to take on the job unprepared, then he needs to take the consequences. You don't have to give him hand-holding mentorship, you can do "tough love" style, which allows him growth by stumbling around. You pick him up only after he falls, dust him off, and simply say "back to it." Of course, you have to balance the good of the troop v the growth of the SPL. Wisdom is experience gained with tears, my shop teacher many times told me.

Lisa, I second your post, word for word! YIS John

1) Click on the headline. 2) The headline will open in a new window, and will fail... 3) In your URL bar, delete from the h of the first http to the h of the second http. 4) Now you have a viable url. Go to its end and hit the return key. 5) Read article!

??? Since we are talking Cubs, IOLS is not the right outdoor training for their leaders. How much knife handling/safety is in BALOO and OWLS (or whatever the Web'lo outdoor training is titled this week?)???