John-in-KC

IN OUR COUNCIL, EVERYBODY. Kids, grownups, unit serving, silver tabs... makes no difference. The only folks who do not are Council level Council professionals (SE, FD, etc).

The gear guy/gal's job should be titled in context of what the Crew's purpose is: - Theater/music Crew (I know of a couple): Property Master - Camping/HA Crew: QM. - Re-enacting crew: Era dependent. Stosh's military re-enactors may want to have a QM, a group doing SCA sorts of stuff may want a Steward.

rjscout, Some things you can do... Track down some older Boy Scouts who came up from this Pack. Ask them for some reachback to play games with the young ones during a recruiting event. Consider having some old PW derby cars, and setting up your track for a PW race evening. Let the kids get enthusiastic about it! Talk to your own Cubs about a day where they ALL ATTEND SCHOOL IN UNIFORM... maybe do the morning flag raising as a Pack. Visit with the 1st-4th grade teachers. See what they are saying about Cubs. It's also a sanity check that the Cubs are "following Akela" (the teacher). Foil Dinner Evening, if you can do it without bashing the budget, is a good way to get yummy smells and activities around potential Cubs! Good hunting

I really like the idea of 1 Pack per elementary school, not 1 pack from 3 schools. Why? Room to grow for 3 units, not one. Think this for a moment: Tiger Den of 8-10. Wolf Den of 8-10 Bear Den of 8-10 Web 1 Den of 8-10. Web 2 Den of 8-10. You're at 40-50 boys before even saying hello. If you, like many Packs, send Web 2s to Boy Scouts at B/G, you have about two months before Day Camp and the first recruitment opportunity for a new Tiger Den. If you have 2 tiger and wolf dens, but attrit to 1 bear, 1 web 1 and 1 web 2 den, then you have 56-70 boys around. Just some numerical thought.

As Captain Iron14 said, and as emb021 says, It's a VENTURE PATROL, A VENTURING CREW... and members thereof are Venturers.

Uh, Meteu, You wrote: However, we are private. Except for people of legitimate interest (and by interest, I mean religious or safety concern) our ceremonies are only availible to those who are members I think you need to go re-read assorted OA handbooks, the Officers/Advisers Guide, and have a long talk with your Professional Staff Adviser. Interest is not limited to religion or safety. ANY concern by a person with appropriate interest can be legitimately addressed. Safety... values of the Candidate's family... faith... health... all are in-bounds for the tough question. This is one of the few areas where a youth officer probably should defer to his adult Adviser (volunteer or Professional Service) and let them show the way. The last thing the Order, or Scouting needs is a parent pulling their child from Candidacy for the Ordeal, or indeed from Scouting... because a youth member officer didn't temper his interpretation of the rules with deference to an adults' questions.

Cracker Barrel at Klondike... let's see... HOT FOOD!!! You've got cold kids; give them some fire in their bellies as they bed down. Dutch Oven 'Smacos (S'mores on a flour tortilla), fresh monkey bread (heck, any form of hot fresh bread), cocoa, hot cider, homemade chicken and noodles... and the list goes on.

Lisa'Bob wrote: Hamster patrol??!???! Now *that's* funny! Just better not put them next to the Owls in the critter order OK, now that means war... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76HcLEunsws&feature=related

Our chartered partner had a policy restricting access to the property by non-members or by guests of sponsored organizations without prior permission. Since they also lease their facility for banquets and parties, this is reasonable and proper. It allows them a mechanism to get "crashers" off in short order through the Gendarmerie. I agree, a UC should visit at least monthly. He should coordinate his visit in advance with the CC or the SM. When he says "I am going to do this" is where the red flag slams down. It should be "May I do this?" It may be the CC and/or SM have bigger issues and support needs than what the UC proposes to visit on. Don't come to inspect uniforms if the CC asks you to revisit the BOR process! Don't come to discuss Adult Association if the SM asks for some help educating adults on the Patrol Method. Dos that make sense?

"What I did mine, I gave the troop a month's notice. " When I was a COR, Mr MVScouter, Had you called my SM, CM, or CC and said "A month from now I'll be inspecting your unit's uniforming"... My next call would be to the DC and the DE, asking "Who is this guy and why does he think he's going to be allowed in the door of one of my units?" You missed the point of Eamonn's post: You, sir are a GUEST in the unit, there because you are invited, or there gathering facts at the request of the District Key 3. In the latter case you jolly well better be talking first with the IH and COR, because the Chartered Partner is the owner of record of the unit, NOT the unit serving Scouters. It might be that the Uniform Method is the least of my problems; I have a bigger problem with unit serving Scouters understanding the Advancement Method. You respond to the needs and requests of the unit, not to your own policies and procedures agenda. Around my VFW and its Scouting programs, PERMISSION is better than forgiveness for external visitors.

But local1400, Way baaaack in the 1960s (!!!) there was a blank patrol patch (black border, red field) for "insert name here" patrol. You're tilting at a 40+year old windmill, my friend. Shall I cue "The Impossible Dream" from "Man of La Mancha?"

If I may, It sounds like National designed FCFY to be a concious emphasis on basic skills development in units. The goal was to push the fundamental skills of the outdoors. The Challenges, as I see them, are: 1) Merit badge school summer camps. Too many dining halls. Too many classes where the Scout learns something other than fundamental skills. The one week where we have them 24/7 each year, and how much of that time is off-focus? 2) Distortion of the goal, as Barry described. He said it so well, I won't say more. 3) An adult training system that's a hodgepodge. 4) Equipment prices for individual gear that compete most favorably with other high-end pursuits. 5) Last but not least, parents who do not value development of the "whole man." What I call the "Dow Jones quarterly report syndrome" has hit all manner of parenting. Parents who intend their kids to have a good start in life expect tangible results from the money and time they invest, and they expect near-real-time results. The whole man is not necessarily a tangible result. Don Schollander, an Olympic champion swimmer from the 60s, penned "Not the Triumph But the Struggle." It's really too bad most parents do not understand this key point.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Fred, Thanks for making my other point So far, no one who has quoted a difference from standard has taken the time to cite it. One would think all these folk who put such emphasis on uniforms would have a uniform guide to hand SFAICT, all the supposed differences are the subject of arcane knowledge and Indian Lore. In the meantime, thanks again to Mr Coronado for doing such a job with Troop 200!

Give them great program and they will come. That's supposedly a quote from H Roe Bartle, but it sure as heck makes sense. 1) This is an LEC task. Adults should share ideas, but this is a youth thing. Us grown-ups need to be there to help, not to run for thm. 2) Year-round opportunities which pass the "so-what test". This goes from C-Team to dance team to kids learning what Ranger does to ... The more you give youth the opportunity, the better they'll respond, and the more Ordeal members will want to come back for more. It starts at the first Fall Fellowship after their Ordeals, works through Winter Banquet, then stretches round to Spring work weekends or induction weekends, and further stretches into summer camp. 3) The Ordeal Ceremony has to be good: This is not a time to flub lines. People remember when Mateu can't get the prayer out. Trust me. I've seen it happen. C-Team Advisor has get intelligent eyeballs looking back at him when he talks about "doing it right." 4) Are the service projects trivial or significant? I still remember my Ordeal service project; we had to clear a firebreak around the Reservation Director's house to comply with new fire regs. I've seen some project that were trivial beyond compare. 5) Finally, the hike and the brotherhood ceremony have to be good. Word of mouth does get around; if the Lodge is full of bovine excrement, the folks you want won't show up!

Mr Wingnut, Precisely my point. Mr Coronado has a troop that the editors found worthy of mention. He's obviously applying the 8 Methods of Scouting. I also join in congratulating him on a successful Troop. I hope folks sat the TIC... it means tongue in cheek

(TIC) OK, all you uniform police, here's your chance to play STUMP THE CHUMP. In this case, the chump is whoever edited the cover page for v96, no 1 (Jan-Feb 2008) of Scouting magazine. Find, and cite the uniforming errors. (/ TIC) I think this is proof positive of what I understand Eamonn and Beavah both say: Make your best efforts, but at the end of the day, the individual Scouter makes the final call on his/her uniforming. Have fun, and Blessed Christmas!

I pretty much do not care how you drive, about the only place PSR isn't a day's plus drive away from are Albuquerque, Denver, and Amarillo. Even my Kansas City is an overnight stop in the Oklahoma Panhandle from the Ranch!

You, too, can celebrate SATURNALIA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember, Christmas trees are a bring-in from German pagan traditions. As for me, I'd rather listen to a bunch of tubists at a TUBACHRISTMAS concert.

What Barry said. You have a lifetime to serve youth and Scouting. You have about 8 more years to enjoy seeing your son become a great young man. I'll serve Scouting all my days, but some of my best moments were watching his roots take and his wings unfold.

I think it will depend on the National Youth Leadership in 2015 or so. We who are over-21 may be glad to have one, but we don't get a say in IF there is one.

Y'all are making me very happy I live in my particular school district.

ElyriaLeader, Will respectfully disagree with you that B-P used close order drill as a method. If you read his writings, or even a compedium of his writings, such as Footsteps of the Founder you will see he fundamentally disagreed with close-order drill as a Scouting tool. Close-order drill has a specific purpose in the military training lexicon: It's a tool to enhance immediate, unquestioning, absolute obedience to a set of commands. B-P, as a Cavalryman, used the model of a cavalry scout: Someone who operates independently in small units, thinks for himself/itself, and dynamically learns and grows. Dan I love how you described your encounter with the UP!!! I nominate that unknown Scouter for the "Hoist on his own petard" annual award... the next step after that is a DARWIN!

B, Depending on specific event, we use 3 different MB cards... Blue Card... mostly unit level stuff White Card... local 5x7 printed, issued at our Scout Camps Two-part carbon-set... used by an area college running an MB day Awards, yeah. Everyone buys MB award cards.

Philmont Training Center is an awesome experience when you choose to go. For WVCubDad's benefit, the training center uses extra large wall tents, 2 to a tent: If you're a couple, you get to tent together (I've known folks to push the beds together), I've seen families who cotted their kids in their tent, although space is allocated 1 bed per person. There are fairly typical camp shower houses available, and the dining hall serves cafeteria style. There are age-appropriate activities for the kids, and there are spouse activities as well. They've been known to toodle off to Taos and Santa Fe! Bottom Line: For the living, PTC is "resort under canvas!"

Mapper, YOU, SIR, ARE IN SCOUT CAMPING HOG HEAVEN!!! Beaches, forest, mountains, snow, all can be yours. Someone already recommended Gaviota SB. Having grown up and camped along US 101 in Santa Barbara County, I'll agree with that, and add in Refugio SB and El Capitan SB. Morro Bay is a good one too. Up in Kern County, Wester LA Council keeps Camp Whitsett (http://www.whitsett.org), which is good from snowmelt to 1st major snowfall. Whitsett is also a HA base; they have the Silver Knapsack trail heading out from there! There are National Forests in CA with great campgrounds, as well as National Parks (Yosemite being the main attaction). Do, by all means, get yourself a copy of "Starr's Guide to the John Muir Trail". The Pacific Crest trail wanders throughout the Sierra Nevada. Unless your PLC WANTS to go to Philmont, your Troop has high adventure attractions of the first order within a 4 hour drive! No need for a two day road trip or a flight. Have fun, my Scouting youth was out of Troop 110, Reseda. Hog Heaven!