John-in-KC

Fred, I'm going to respectfully disagree on two levels: First, at the moment, it appears Ms Jo is the gatekeeper of who gets to use this venue. Hopefully, as she describes her PLC, in time the youth will be the gatekeeper. Second, to get to the script, the author has to make an outline. To build the outline, the author has to sequence. To sequence, the author has to decide what the blocks will be in the first place. That's planning in my book. If Ms Jo uses an intermediate product in the process of building a script for her gatekeeping decision, I can live with that. BTW, are you going to get to PTC for Relationships Week this year???

Time for a huddle between you and the CC. The one thing you can assert control over is the term of office. Use Roberts Rules of Order as an aid. The point is this: Any new bylaw affecting officers takes effect only at the next regularly scheduled election. Beyond that, Roses and Thorns as Beavah said. Beyond that, you have the bully pulpit of Advisor's Minute to discuss clique-ism...

You're going to be Cubmaster. Program is your responsibility, but you're also the Ringmaster of the Grand Circus that is Pack Meeting each month. I'd sit down with your CC now; to me, rescheduling this night, perhaps to a Saturday campfire cookout at the local park is one option. Another option is to look at area Councils and see who is giving WB when. There may be a course nearby which better suits your Packs schedule. I tend to advocate going out-of-Council for WB, particularly if you're already active in your own Council. It broadends the network , and the most important resource Scouters have is ... other Scouters Remember the major program delivery context of WB will be the Boy Scouting program, so while the leadership skills and several of the games are exportable, you will have to think as much Parents as when your SPL talks about PLs and PORs. Have FUN!!! (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

To me, What Oak Tree described is the goal, What Scott Robertson said about acceptability is suitable. Your opportunity as MB Counselor is to start raising the bar

I have to agree with Brent and emb021. Of course, there is a flip side to what they said: The Troop, especially the program side Scouters, and the parents have to be willing to invest heavily in developing young men as leaders. If we do not give the Scouts the tools, we risk setting them up for failure in program being boy-run. This means we have to influence kids to take Brownsea etc, and we have to use unit JLT (I am not a believer in the unit package of NYLT; I've been told by developmental psychologists who've studied both packages that the old unit JLT is the stronger program package). John I used to be an Owl C-40-05

1PM day of is beyond MAYDAY, MAYDAY. The point of no return has passed. I have no sympathy whatever for an Adviser who dropped the ball that far. This isn't rocket science. Someone should have worked the checklist NLT than the December LEC meeting.

I guess GW, you'd also be rankled at the hymn... Jesus, O my Jesus... Master, Lord, and friend... Take me, Lord and break me... Let me feel Your heart again. Lisa, I like Scoutldr's idea of visiting with Mom and discussing the DRP. We aren't a Christian organization. To whoever talked about Mass and the RC obligation, I've known priests who were Scouters do Mass for their Troops in the field. As far as LDS units go, I've seen some great ones... but they also had the Sierra Nevada range in their backyard. Amazing how kids want to get out when there is world class ground at their doorstep.

acco... But as much as a VentureScout? bwooooohahahahaha!

Two comments: 1) On election policy: All of us over-21s need to remember we don't have a vote in this. The policies are set by youth members! National leadership is all under-22. Now, National level Advisers may be able to influence... but it's still the young men's call. 2) When I Ordealed in 1970 I was 13 1/2. I'm convinced many candidates today are just barely 12, but they meet candidacy requirements.

Since this thread has just been brought up from a 4 year drop "below the fold," let's make sure we are talking about the same subject... DO WE AGREE... that we are discussing a Star Scout, who needs a Position of Responsibility, but the ones your Troop uses are full. Therefore, the SM elects to assign a special task to the Scout in lieu of a POR? OR!!!! Are we talking about the service hours needed to move from Star Scout to Life Scout? If the former, I've seen everything from unit webmaster (which is not a BSA POR) to Mister Fix-It (electricity/plumbing/carpentry) for the Scout Hut. It's a discretionary assignment to allow the SM to fit duties which are not part of Nationals' suite of PORs. If the latter, anything your Troop does for service projects should count for service hours. OTOH!!! If you are talking about a mini-version of the Eagle Leadership Service Project, that's outside the BSA advancement plan. That simple.

Trev, Duty to God is a responsibility of Scouting. We are to provide the youth opportunities to worship. FAITH is the responsibility of the family. Mom and Dad, not us, are responsible to raise the child up. Matthew 19:13-15 13Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them. 14Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there. DO NOT HINDER THEM. That's our job as Scouters. Proverbs 7 applies as well: Proverbs 7 Warning Against the Adulteress 1 My son, keep my words and store up my commands within you. 2 Keep my commands and you will live; guard my teachings as the apple of your eye. 3 Bind them on your fingers; write them on the tablet of your heart. 4 Say to wisdom, "You are my sister," and call understanding your kinsman; 5 they will keep you from the adulteress, from the wayward wife with her seductive words. 6 At the window of my house I looked out through the lattice. 7 I saw among the simple, I noticed among the young men, a youth who lacked judgment. 8 He was going down the street near her corner, walking along in the direction of her house 9 at twilight, as the day was fading, as the dark of night set in. 10 Then out came a woman to meet him, dressed like a prostitute and with crafty intent. 11 (She is loud and defiant, her feet never stay at home; 12 now in the street, now in the squares, at every corner she lurks.) 13 She took hold of him and kissed him and with a brazen face she said: 14 "I have fellowship offerings [a] at home; today I fulfilled my vows. 15 So I came out to meet you; I looked for you and have found you! 16 I have covered my bed with colored linens from Egypt. 17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes and cinnamon. 18 Come, let's drink deep of love till morning; let's enjoy ourselves with love! 19 My husband is not at home; he has gone on a long journey. 20 He took his purse filled with money and will not be home till full moon." 21 With persuasive words she led him astray; she seduced him with her smooth talk. 22 All at once he followed her like an ox going to the slaughter, like a deer stepping into a noose 23 till an arrow pierces his liver, like a bird darting into a snare, little knowing it will cost him his life. 24 Now then, my sons, listen to me; pay attention to what I say. 25 Do not let your heart turn to her ways or stray into her paths. 26 Many are the victims she has brought down; her slain are a mighty throng. 27 Her house is a highway to the grave, leading down to the chambers of death.

I've seen a very mature for his years OATR have "THE TALK" with younger Scouts. He did a really good Riot Act, considering he was 16. The young man who was at risk of not being elected ... was elected, and properly so. Where a youth member wasn't emotionally prepared for "THE TALK", I've seen a SM give it. In that case, his comment was "if you have an issue with anyone on the ballot, you need to have a SM Conference with me before the election meeting."

MVs District Director, Senior DE, DE... Professional Staff District Commish District Chairman... Still Key 3

Where is Colin Powell when we really need him? I'm sorry, but I am singularly unimpressed by anybody in the field for the 08 election. Plastic Flip-flops, naive, and Beavah's Ron Paul running loose in a gamers discussion forum... I agree that Edwards is pretty! I also agree that Guiliani has more skeletons in his closet than a med school. Of course, the last two times around, we elected the owner of the Texas Rangers... so who am I to say this field isn't fantastic? I really do like the British idea of 6 weeks from dissolution of Parliament to election day. I've listed to Hil-Bar-Mi-dy-tt for over a year. EagleSon and I are making jokes that we could solve the enerby crisis if we just had the fuel for the campaign jets and busses.

Oh........... Be Prepared, Prepared, Prepared... The Motto of a True Scout! Be Prepared, Prepared, Prepared... The Motto of a Scout! Prepared, Prepared... The Motto of a True Scout! Prepared, Prepared... The Motto of a Scout!

More understood now. If the kid needs leadership development, take advantage of the tools Scouting gives you... send him to Brownsea!!! At the same time, I would, as SM and ASMs, revisit what I thought "right looked like" in a succesful tenure of a POR. If you're a "Patch + 4 (6) months" unit, you may need to revisit standards, expectations, and training development for your PORs across the board. As far as Dad goes: Too bad, so sad. If Dad wants him in an Eagle Mill, let Dad transfer him to same. Edited to add: OATR: Order of the Arrow Troop Representative (an Eagle authorized POR).(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Gern, A few hours ago I was taking a very neat young lady to a concert. She was one of two French Hornists for the orchestra. We spent time talking about her and her boyfriend. He's Faith X by upbringing, but is having significant troubles with the organization of that denomination and its emphasis on LAW. I have no problem believing an 11-13 year olds faith is more fragile than a 17 year olds faith (the young man of which I spoke above).

Bottom line up front: You are adding to the requirements There is an approved list of PORs in the current Boy Scout Requirements. If one of your young men has completed his required tenure in a valid position, he's done. You cannot make him "you've been OATR, now go be SPL before I will sign off on you to do your ELSP." That's about the world's best way I know of for you to have a heart to heart with your COR, resulting in you surrendering your SM patch. If, in your opinion, he really needs leadership and assertiveness training, don't send him to Scout Camp this year... send him to Brownsea/JLT/NYLT/(whatever they call it this month). The week will do him good. HOW DO YOU GET HIM THERE? You have a quiet, offline talk with his parents, then you have a SM conference with the young man focusing on leadership skills development. At the same time, an ELSP is often the first time young men have to put the whole shooting match togeether... project brainstorming, design, coordination, approval, procurment, execution, and close-out. Many young men will learn more in the field, doing this project, than they would in a classroom (even a Brownsea classroom), doing classwork. Lots to chew on here, I wish you well. YiS.

Two question sets: How many connections and relationships do you have with Scouters outside your own immediate District? Do you want to expand your network? How much leadership psych have you had through the years (military, undergrad, training courses in the workplace)? If old and familiar ground, would revisiting it be useful? If new ground, are you willing to learn some new tricks? If you answered yes to these, then WB will give you tools in the toolbox. Besides, it's fun (especially the second weekend!) My thoughts. John I used to be an Owl C-40-05

1) There is a Chaplain's Aide training manual put out by National. IIRC it has some resources for putting together a Scout's Own. 2) As Scott suggested, ask your Chartered Partner. Even VFW/AL has a position of Chaplain for each Post. If you don't ask, you cannot get! 3) One caution: Contact parents individually. Talk with them about faith. Make sure a generic Scout's Own is not "scandalous' to them or their child. There are Christian denominations which WILL NOT abide worship outside Christendom. One of the worst S.O. services I ever heard had readings from the Koran and the Bhagavad-Gita (sp?).

OK, now I can help with specific questions: 1) www.nesa.org ... there is a downloadable and fillable adobe pdf of the Eagle app. It's not savable though (SFAICT). That's takes care of converting the "sloppy copy" to something you can use. If you really want, PM me. EagleSon did a powerpoint of the app, and you can fill in your various info and save it. 2) Color print your app, then no one will ever know the diff between a BSA printed copy and your printed copy. 3) Contact your District Executive. Your BASIC advancement detail (ranks, MBs) is on a national database called ScoutNet. Since FC, S, L dates, as well as your 21 MBs, are part of the app, that helps with a lot of the info. 4) (ETA) The date you earn Scout should be the date you joined your Troop! 5) Get ahold of your CC. SOMEONE should have kept records. The first Crew EagleSon was chartered to closed its doors forever Monday. I was advancement guy, I emailed copies of everything to the final members, and I will keep copies til the last young man turns 18. HTH(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

For the same reason we don't have a youth Surgeon. It's adult in nature. OT and NT both have passages on the tremendous responsibility to raise up a child in the correct way. I suspect the Koran has similar. I DO NOT WANT A CHILD screwing up another child's faith. It's that simple. It's an accountablility to God thing, imo.

I remember my brothers BSA supply neckerchief. It felt at least as heavy of material as a bandanna. I remember my Troop did its own necker, and to economize, sized them a bit smaller than the "then normal" BSA necker. It didn't go on weekend campouts. I've seen what BSA uses now. Cheap and thin. It's a dressy bauble, best left at home. I like what allangr said. If BSA is going to have us in a necker (and as E says, it's one of the uniform components most of the world recognizes), let's have quality, fit, and finish which justify it as a working garment. Those of you who are WBers... think about your taupe necker, and your tartan necker. Think about the physical differences. That's the point I'm driving at.

It's the SM's own son? I do not know of a DAC in the country who wouldn't allow an ASM to cover for the SM ... it's the Adult Association Method in action. What happens when the SM is out of the local area for an extended period, but the CC/COR agree he stays SM? Yep, an ASM covers.

Acco, No. I wear one of several variants of my CSP. We are a BIG (300 series) council. My District has 140+ units (55 Troops, 80 Packs, and a few Crews). Our most rural districts cover 4-8 COUNTIES. There's also a lot of historic area identity, dating back to the first rounds of Council mergers in the 70s. So.... Everybody, from kids in units up, wears a District patch.