John-in-KC

What most everyone has said. Also, concentrate on 1/1 leadership with TigerSon. The day will come when he will zoom off, far away from you, and be wanting increasing independence. Give him roots... then allow him to take wing. You'll have all your life to serve Scouting. You only have another decade to mold your son. It'll go by way too fast. Trust me!

Ed, Why don't you want to have a working knowledge of the Cub program and the Venturing program? Cubbing is the seed corn; from what I've seen, most of our kids come up that path. Being able to transition them from parent guided and adult-led to self-directing seems to be a vital soft skill for a Scouter. Understanding Cubbing also allows the Boy Scout program Scouter to give better reachback to area Packs, which in turn helps recruitment. It's all about the program, but at our level, the inter-relationships matter. My thoughts. To Kudu: Since you're so hung up on Leadership Development as buzzwords, I'll give you a more fun term: RELATIONSHIP DEVELOPMENT. Do you not understand, most of life is about interpersonal relationships? Doesn't every adult serving the youth deserve high quality training in this field? How many of us get this training in college, in our day jobs, outside our day jobs? Not many. We Scouters are blessed to have it... and from what I see, you would take it away, to impale all on the stake of a single method. YIS

NOT AN ACCEPTABLE ANSWER, KUDU UOS is not, so far as I'm told, a "due course" BSA (or WOSM) training. It's supplemental in nature. You've stuck the problem, obliquely: We don't have a good life cycle development of Scouters. Maybe other countries do, the US sure as heck doesn't. Yes, I believe Scouting is a game ... for the children From everything I've read of Baden-Powell, for adults, it's a serious task, to be given the full gravitas due it. That means we can smile and laugh, yes. It also means looking deeply eye to eye with a youngster and challenging him to see his own heart of hearts... and to get the Oath and Law lodged there for a lifetime. There is no more important task for adults than raising up the next generation to be good, God-fearing people.

The rub is this: Do we really have a well thought-through life cycle model of the Scouter? I submit we do not. A good friend is on our Council's Executive Board. He's made the clear and succint comment: "Cub Scouting is the seed corn from which we grow our older program members. We must do all we can to nurture the seed corn." Folks, that includes a training and development model for leaders. The fact of the matter is the adult who grew up with a suite of outdoor skills is the minority in America now. That was not the case for us Boomers in 1946. Many of our Dads came home from WWII with a whole kitbag of skills: Small arms, astronomy, camping, field cooking, communication ... The Dads of our Troops had what we needed to grow up in Scouting. Well, (and with apologies)... we added the other gender to Scouting leadership. While many were better outdoorspeople than most men, more than a few had no idea. As our Boomer generation grew up, and spawned GenX, we continued the urbanization and suburbanization of America. I'll tell you, one of my five mile hikes, in 1968, was across the street grid of the San Fernando Valley. I still remember dropping my first aid kit into the Wash along VanOwen Ave. That trend has only progressed with time. EagleSon did two of his training rides around a closed circuit of an area fish hatchery lake. To my way of thinking, National Council needs to survey most Scouters and many parents in the Cub and Boy programs: Concurrently, it needs to field evaluate the camping and hiking skills of that same population. I will bet cold, hard cash we will find the outdoors skills aren't anywhere near what they properly should be for any given climate regime. With a proper baseline, then we can develop a suite of training that provides the support a Scouter will need to first, be comfortable himself in being in an outdoors-based program, and second, will equip him to train and mentor youth leaders who in turn train the youth. If we just keep ripping each other over "you don't deserve your beads" and "you're an old fart" all we do is waste energy which we need to serve the youth. Maybe that means we even re-visit the concept of volunteers training volunteers, particularly in the outdoor skills. National attempted a start with New Leader Essentials, in terms of training to the current position. Now, it needs to look at training the soft skills for current and next, and then it needs to evaluate our true skill in the Outdoors. Finally, we have to recognize that Wood Badge is not the sole property of the Boy Scouts of America. It's world-wide. We need to look at that training based on what other Scout Associations perceive the beads meaning, as well as what we think they mean. The beads, the taupe necker, and Gilwell Field are trans-national. We do our youth a dis-service if we decide WB is "'Murica... love it or else." My thoughts, respectfully. YIS.

Congratulations on earning Life!!! EagleSon saw someone elses' Eagle Leadership Service Project, and decided he wanted to extend off it when the time came. EagleSon earned Life Scout in late fall 2003. As we approached May of 2005 and his 16th birthday, he'd done nothing towards writing his project. Scoutmaster finally had a heart-heart SM conference with him: He came away in angry tears, started writing, but quickly went back to being blocked. A few weeks later, SM asked ES what his passions, his interests, his "good areas" were. Suggestion was: Make what matters to you work for you! Inside six weeks, EagleSon: - Identified three recipient agencies. - Identified a labor pool. - Recruited the recipient agencies, integrated their needs, and built a support concept. - Did the extended research online. - Packaged a project. - Sold the project to the District Advancement Chairman. The moral of the story: MAKE WHAT MATTERS TO YOU WORK FOR YOU!!! Not every ELSP has to be "bricks and mortar." I know a young man who did Library of Congress Veterans Oral History program. I know a young man who provided a recreation therapy resource to several hospitals. I know a young man who helped his church "family crisis" program cover a specific resource shortfall. Meditate on what matters to you, be it a hobby or a classroom pursuit. Make what matters to you work for you! I wish you well YIS

Barry, Part of the mindset is the cost of post-secondary education, be it university, community college, or vocational-technical. A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA IS GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A GROCERY BAGGER. I compared my cost of education, in terms of how much income my Dad diverted to it, to what I will pay for EagleSon. Dad ended up spending 6 months income across a 4 year education, or about 1/8 diversion. I will pay, based on current year numbers, about 18 months income across a 4 year education. That's a 300% growth factor for a similar product. I suspect part of the mindset comes from parents trying, very hard, to level the playfield for their children. That implies parents have to find what children like at an early age, and then focus on it. That's specialization, and the opposite of what we want to do in Scouting. We're interested in the whole man (and I hope GSUSA in the whole woman). We want the youngster to specialize when he sees the moment, not early on. The fix is not specific to Scouting; it's solving an endemic problem in American society. I have CD of "Man of La Mancha." I'll gladly loan it to anyone who thinks they have a clue; they'll need it... and that's sad. EDITED TO INCLUDE: E, eliminating advancement will cause an immediate and precipitous drop in membership. Unless we get very, very good, much better than we are now, at outdoors education, Scouting as we know it would disappear inside a decade. We'd have to FOCUS on the Outdoors Method, and we'd have to have certification for each task and each instructor. I know Kudu debates whether we even have the Patrol Method, but a 2d/3d order consequence of removing advancement would be eliminating youth leadership and youth-youth skill training.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Gern, 1)They have everything to do with the mission and vision of the Boy Scouts of America. 2) Yes, EagleSon doesn't do drugs, but I had to have a long heart to heart talk with him a couple of years ago about porn. When he was pre-Cub and Cub age, the opening of casinos in our area, and all the colorful lights, made them attractive places to be. Temptations come from all manner of angles. 3) If we don't talk about these things, who will? Are we only to serve the Scout who makes the upper ranks, or do we try to make a difference in that Tenderfoot before he stops coming forever? I submit the latter. If we're only here to serve the young people who are going for S-L-E, then I think we need to re-look the program overall. My thoughts.

For me, WB was not a "substitute" for not having earned Eagle in my youth. The Scout I was helped make me the man I am. WB, to me, is the "commitment" point in volunteering as a Scouter. I intend to be around the movement for years to come. It's a common bond with other Scouters around the world. It's a genuine goal that all who serve Scouting should earn. It's a network. The two times I asked a WB'er for help and they personally had to say no, they also found someone else to step up and cover the need. A wise man told me "It's all about people and relationships. When it becomes about activities and things, life will go awry. Focus on the people and the relationships." My thoughts. John I used to be an Owl C-40-05

Gern, I've recently had talks with EagleSon and one of his friends. Both are HS seniors. Both are active in a plethora of activities. Both see the drug problem at their high school, and are truly upset the administration and the school resource officer apparently don't. We live in an area which, while having a mix of lower to upper incomes, seems to be settling as a "high-rent" area. For more than a few societal issues, too many adults have chosen to stick their heads in the sand. Thankfully, there are young people who see the issues, and want to be agents of change. OK, maybe T-2-1 isn't the place to do this. Maybe we need to re-visit Family Life MB, and make it a hard requirement for Star. Sticking our heads in the sand, and not giving our children and other young people the tools to defend themselves, be it trained fists or the right way to report to the police, is flat out wrong. "Moral and ethical choices guided by the Scout Oath and Law." The outdoors is the principal (but not only) program delivery vehicle. B and E, you've both been Council Commissioners. You both have had access to the higher levels. How do we make the adjustments needed?

For E and others here who have been Course Directors: Is not the very term "Wood Badge" controlled by World Scout Movement vice any one national Scout Association? Does the WOSM have any input or approval to any one nation's WB class? After all, the beads and the taupe necker are not peculiar to the US, but are international in nature? Please help... I'm confused!

Lisa, You might want to have the volunteer fire department check their own charter! Departments vary across the Nation. Some have no tie whatsover to the local government, some have only a tax abatement for the stationhouse. At the other extreme, some are publicly equipped but manned by citizen volunteers. If a Venturing Crew, coupled with LFL materials, makes more sense for the local situation, set it up that way. OTOH, if a LFL Exploring post makes the most sense, do that. Let us know how you decide to do it

Ed, Allow me to make this perfectly clear: The attitude I processed as a result of reading your message was: "It seems, in the eyes of some pre WB-21C participants, I'm not anything though..." Your post of Wednesday, 11/28/2007: 1:14:14 PM wounded... deeply.

My 2d weekend: We cooked over fires Well, we used a gas grill, a couple of picnic-table gas stoves, and a camp stove (for the coffeepot!). slept in tents Check had our campfire Check... one campwide, one in our own half-barrel off the ground Scouts Own service Check made gadgets out of saplings and lashings No, we didn't do this did axe and knife work Planted 100 trees per patrol on our conservation project knots Those we needed in due course for camp went thru an orienteering course, Nahhh and had our field assemblies. Gilwell can be anywhere you can form 8 Patrols and a Goofy Staff. Did I mention the BBQ Chicken, Monkey bread, and camp coffee? John I used to be an Owl C-40-05

Gotta agree with the log! When we sent folks to Philmont, Northern Tier, and Packerd, we used the IRS standard rate, and prorated it by the number of seatbelts per vehicle. BTW, all three of these destinations are overnight NTP trips for where we are!

OGE, Thank you for saying it on my behalf. John I used to be an Owl. It seems, in the eyes of some pre WB-21C participants, I'm not anything though... C-40-05

foto, Differenct council, different course director, different perspective Where I took WB, the campground had sufficient space for all 8 patrols in a "camping meadow." Site to site, it wasn't much further than 100 meters tops. The staff brought our stuff down in pickups and piled it. The PLs had chosen sites during the intra-course break. Your critique is certainly valid. I think if CDs/SPLs/QMs use some careful thought, and look at weekend two logistics as part of course prep, the critique can be successfully overcome.

"There are other requirments, like SC #8, that have nothing to do with the troop or scouting. They only serve to educate the boys about the dangers they may face in the real world." Without any sarcasm whatsoever, isn't that part of why the Boy Scouts of America exist? http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc&c=mv We want good people in the next generation after us, don't we?

gwd, I'd have a SM conference with each. Walk them through the duties. Walk them through YOUR expectations of performance. Walk them through your expectations for training (which I hope include Council-level JLT in what acronym it has this week). SPL/ASPL both properly should have high bars for performance. He's supposed to lead meetings, coordinate planning, and see that all the wheels are going to turn. I'm betting the kids have stars in their eyes instead. I would also insist on parental buy-in. SPL is important, second only to church-in-nature and school-in-nature events. Scout and parent alike need to embrace that! A high bar should winnow the field some. In

E, Wonderful resource. THANK YOU.

As emb021 notes, the BSA Buzzword is "Recognition." Recognition of a Venturer can come in many forms, not just the rank advancement system BSA designed: - HS Letters. - Acceptance into National Honor Society or Tri-M. - Scholarship offers. - Appointments to the Service Academies. - Offers of admission to colleges and universities. - All-District/All-State competitions in everything from athletics to forensics. Our job? Help these young people celebrate the good things happening to them! They get enough garbage in life from their peers and from their own expectations. We can leverage any legitimate win for the young people in our Crews.

Post Scriptum: They are already added into the BSA Requirements online!

??? When I went through some Hell in my life, a very good friend, Christian sister and an Annapolis grad, embedded a piece of wisdom in my heart: "You have a finite amount of emotional energy. Use it with wisdom. Don't burn energy on something that is beyond your ability to operate." We're unit, district, and in some cases council level volunteers. A few of us, certainly not I, have influence in the rarified air of regional, and there are folks here who know the National personsae. We cannot change this decision. We need to figure out, as Scouters, how we're going to implement it. Has anyone seen resources to place against any of these requirements yet? PS: I know a lady who counsels Computers MB. She has included a module on internet safety for several years now. She'll be glad for 1C 12.

Welcome home! Albuquerque? Shoot, this is a no-brainer! Get your older kids to plan a series of off-site evening activities. I can think of lots of outdoor skills to develop and practice on a cold and clear winters' night. Now, there's nothing that says you cannot use a MB requirements set to be the educational wrap-around, but shoot, get them doing outdoor stuff. Think about what the vaqueros and conquistadores did in getting your wonderful city running. You can wrap around American Heritage and Cooking!

My answer is a combination of CalicoPenn's post and Gunny's post! If, as CC, I sense a problem in the youth membership, I am within my rights to call BORs for one or more boys. Trust me, though: These BORs are not for advancement. I'm getting a data sample on 1 or more tasks or challenges. THEN I take the SM out for coffee, and we figure out the bigger problems. I see we haven't yet discussed the final piece of a BOR: The question the Scout gets to answer: HOW CAN WE MAKE TROOP 123 BETTER? It really is amazing how they can cut to the the quick of defining a problem for us!

Ed, I absolutely agree that a Scout can ask for a SM conference at any time for any reason ... and that a Scout can ask for a BOR at any time for any reason... I also agree the SM and the Committee can ask for a Conf/BOR from the Scout, though I hope there is reason there. My point was: The SM having his conference normally usually generally most of the time after the Scout has his other requirements done makes a cleaner path to the BOR...