John-in-KC

I think you have your COR call the Council Key 3 and ask why they aren't meeting the Charter Agreement. Three months behind on EBORs??? That is simply not acceptable. The first practical thing I'd do is email your DAC and ask for explicit guidance. Send a carbon copy to your COR. Absent guidance, I'd help the kids re-do their forms and take old/new to the Council office for recertification, and demand your place in the queue be maintained. Jeez... I'm still flabbergasted about a 3 month backlong.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

This past winter, I was truly aggressive about setting back the thermostat when I was out of the house, or at night. All the way down to 58F. Like GW, CFL bulbs. I would like them to get a 150W equivalent though... my bedroom lamp for bedtime reading, and my reading corner in my living room...

Here are my questions: Is EVERY TROOP in your Council being given the opportunity for an OA election? Are your election teams TRAINED? Are your team leaders and their advisers able to prep a Scoutmaster on Candidacy standards and his ability to certify Scouts for nomination? Do you have a legitimate way to process every Ordeal Candidate elected by a Troop? Do you have a year-round program in your Lodge, which supports retention of youth in both Scouting and the Order? If you answer yes to all five questions, then relax... you're doing the right things. If you answer no to any question, it's time to take a hard look at your lodge, perhaps asking 3d party Arrowmen to look in. After all, feedback is a gift! ICS/F&W(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

The best award I've received as an adult in Scouting is "Thank You, Mr John" from a young person! Tell your husband he's doing a great thing, relax and enjoy serving the youth. The second best award I've received is exactly the same thing... from other adults. I would commend Wood Badge to both of you, it's leadership psych with a lot of great people! You'll make lifetime friends, I promise.

Sounds to me like we're treating the final symptom, not the root cause. District Activities and Camping Operations Committees need some feedback (they might even remember it's a gift! ) from unit serving Scouters, and, Heaven Forbid, the Scouts themselves. They might find they need to rework their program. Youth these days are consumed with demands on their time. For that matter, so are parents. What falls off the calendar first? The activity which has the biggest BLAH factor. Like it or not, it sounds like Scouts interpret this particular District Camporee as one huge BLAH.

MacyM, Sadly, we've had more than one poseur provacateur in the past six months. We've also had bloody fools show up here (anyone else remember sod surfing?). Sometimes, we react before we think it through (me included). Now you have the fun part... helping your son plan his Eagle Court of Honor!

Packsaddle, Remember that's why BSA issues liability insurance, so that the Chartered Partner is protected from licensing the Scouting program. Now, that said, it could get really exciting if an award ever outstripped the BSA policy limits and the chartered partner had no additional coverage. I would guess this has not happened yet, or the National Council would be telling local Councils "do not charter "Friends of" groups in no uncertain terms. From my training (Chris Wolfe of the National Office used to be our Comptroller in Kansas City), I remember the liability limits are rather high, but they are finite. B, do you have any experience in this?

Right now existing infrastructure is leveraged off USG, and some temporary support infrastructure is provided by the Army Reserve (and to a lesser extent, AF/Marine Reserve). One way or the other, if USG is out of the business of Jamboree support, infrastructure to include: - Roads capable of tractor/trailer and commercial bus haulage - Power (particularly at the admin site) - Potable/non-potable water - Sewage - Selected admin/support facilities (HQ, health lodge, maintenance shops) will have to either be built or rented. There is no escaping that. Think of your Scout Reservation, from the admin building and health lodge to the Ranger's facilities shop, plus the program areas to include the pool/waterfront. Now, multiply that to bed down 25,000 a night. That's what BSA will have to do to execute a National Jamboree if USG land and support is no longer available due to operational need.

I rappelled regularly in ROTC, all those years ago. Our trips to our field site certainly were not "grab a rope and go." In peacetime training, for every person on a line, we had at least two in some safety duty, be it top man or belay man.

All it takes is one parent complaining to the DE, and the person who brought the alcohol may well get "The Letter" from the SE. You know The Letter: The one returning your dues and inviting you never to darken the door of BSA again. Is it really worth the risk?

MacyM, Like others, congratulations on your son achieving Eagle. It's not easy, and not meant to be. With the bit more background information you gave, I would commend him to visit and ask tough questions at various churches. He can do this by way of youth groups and youth studies, as opposed to sitting in the pews at worship. Encourage his questioning. Struggle is a common part of being a teen. I'd also recommend his visiting with an adult, perhaps his Scoutmaster, who has a firm grip on his own personal faith. Sometimes, the best way to answer the question is through multiple lines of exploration. I wish him well, and congratulations on a true achievement.

[humming] The Theme to Final Jeopardy [/humming] or that other WB favorite... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness... Birds in the Wilderness... Birds in the Wilderness...!! Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness... Waiting for those other patrols... Knight, I would not hold your breath. When we resurrect the "Gilwell Song" thread, we often find we wait a couple of days for someone to post... Oh, and to Bayou Beaver... I'll simply refer you to EagleSon's band director, and his most famous quote: If you're on time, you're late. If you're On Time, You're Late! IF YOU'RE ON TIME, YOU'RE LATE!!!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Welcome to the Forums, MacyM. Here's the short version: I EXPECT an Eagle BOR to ask a candidate about his faith. When I'm sitting an EBOR, I'll ask several questions about his faith and his everyday life. Y'know, that investment in Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 is paying off handsomely. Allow me to quote from page 16 of the 2007 edition of ACP&P, which contains a portion of the BSA Bylaws: Article IX, Section 1, Clause 2: "The activities of the members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be carried on under conditions which show respect to the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion, as required by the 12th point of the Scout Law, reading, "Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others." So, I expect respectful, thoughtful, and probing questions by an Eagle Board of Review into the faith of an Eagle candidate. Now, some questions for you in turn: Are you the Scout in question, or are you the parent of a Scout? If you're the Scout in question, - Are you struggling with your personal faith? It's ok to talk with your Scoutmaster about this before going into the EBOR. It's OK for him to visit with the Committee Chair and the District Guest informally before the Board begins and determine an approach which will help the Board help you. - Have you decided you are A-theist? If so, you again need to visit with your Scoutmaster. The decision to deny God exists and to proclaim it does go against the ethic of Scouting. You need to understand that your Eagle may be at risk. - Have you settled on an unusual faith (B'hai, Wicca, etc)? Again, visit with your Scoutmaster. I hope you see a common theme going on here. If you are the parent of a Scout, - Is your child about to go to his EBOR? If so, the same advice, and it's really for him: Visit with the Scoutmaster. He's the one who can help figure out a path through the field. - Has your child had his EBOR, and been turned down for Eagle? If so, the BOR is required by BSA advancement policy to inform him, in writing, both of the deficiency and of the remedy processes (including the appeal procedures). Wherever you live, you are inside a Boy Scout Council and probably a District (operating subdivision of a Council). There is a volunteer charged with managing the advancement program, he or she is called the Advancement Chair. If your son has been denied Eagle, and he/you do not have formal followup, you need to first ask the SM/CC for the written follow-up and the appeals procedures. If they do not or will not give those to you, then get in contact with that Advancement Chair.

Here's what the Guide to Safe Scouting says: The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. This prohibition is also cited in: Scoutmaster Handbook, No.33009, and Health and Safety Guide, No. 34415. http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss04.aspx I think that cuts to the chase on the real stuff.

Mark, I wish I was far enough up the Scouting food chain to make the change happen. I'm not. I'm a unit serving and District volunteer (RT staff). My thoughts come from my own walk on the trail, and from watching EagleSon as he continues his walk on the trail. Lord willing, this'll be his 3d summer on camp staff. His director and I had a conversation about him today; I think this summer's theme will be "spend your emotional energy wisely."

First issue is you're ASM, and thus do not have accountability to the COR. The SM is accountable for program, the CC for support. That makes your position more the challenge. I think there are perhaps three things you can do to begin with. One is to have the Life Scout talk to the Committee, and explain what he sees going on. They may blow him off, but they might listen. Another is to issue a challenge for all the adults to go and view Fast Start training for Boy Scouting online. Have them see where they are off base. Finally, you can ask the CC or SM to invite your Unit Commissioner and COR for a visit. Let them see how Scouting is "delivering the promise" and give some input for their vision of your Troop. Sometimes, listening to an outsider helps. (Sometimes it doesn't as well). OK, so you have a single patrol at this point. What is wrong with empowering the youth? Maybe they cannot do everything a 50 boy Troop can, but they can, and properly should, make some decisions for themselves. To me, the challenge is how many sheepish looks will you get vs. how much "pushback?" If you get lots of resistance to change, even when asking the tough questions gently, then you may find the effort is not going to be worth it (in other words, you're going to be blown off). In that case, I'd make my gracious good-byes to the CC with a copy to the COR. So, to eat the elephant one bite at a time: - See if that Life Scout has the courage to stand up and tell the Committee and SM why this troop is heading into the tank. - Challenge the current leaders (since you say they're untrained) to take Fast Start, for a beginning. After all, it's online. - Invite the COR and UC to visit, and then offer feedback. - Be prepared for resistance. Internally, decide how much resistance you'll accept before calling it a day. Finally, remember: More bees come to honey than to vinegar.

I know a Troop in my local area which created its own non-profit, got Federal 501©(3) status, and then got in-State non-profit status. A unit Scouter in that troop is an attorney who deals in non-profits. His estimated donation of services was on the order of $10K. Key points, from listening to them and others (including my own church): - Federal non-profit status isn't cheap, and you'd bloody well better keep good books and records. The books and the operating records are subject to IRS inspection. - BE ABSOLUTELY A-POLITICAL in all unit and NP operations. Do not dare to advocate anything political as a 501©(3). This can be as simple as "vote for X" at a Committee meeting. The IRS has several churches around the Nation at risk of losing their status and having to pay multiple year back taxes, with penalties and interest. - Federal 501©(3) status is not necessarily the end of the paperwork. More than one State makes its own determination about whether an organization is/isn't a non-profit. My Council, and the BSA Supply Division Scout Shop had a heckuva time a couple years back because the State of Missouri decided to re-interpret the definition of non-profit. - To summarize, creating your own non-profit is not a one-time expense. There will be ongoing costs of compliance. Disclaimer: I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Having been a Scout from the 1960s (7th edition of the Handbook) from 1968, I have great regard for Bill Hillcourt's program. Yeah, we can and should move signal flags to something a tad more modern, but it's a good program. I think the 12th Edition should bring back COOKING MB as an Eagle requirement, and I think we need to re-visit the educational and training analysis of tasks from Tenderfoot to Eagle. I'm beginning to think JLT should be a requirement NLT than Star, and I'm also beginning to think NYLT (the week-long edition) should be part of the Eagle list. So, what do I have to say to Boy Scout Skill Awards and Belt Loops? The same thing I say about red berets: DING DONG THE BELT LOOPS ARE DEAD!!! THE BELT LOOPS ARE DEAD!!! THE BELT LOOPS ARE DEAD!!!

Supply Division? PM me off list. Here at Fort Leavenworth, we have a vendor who does custom embroidery as well as applique. They do a lot of guidons for Army and Marine companies, and farewell flags for folks leaving assignments. If you have a design, they can execute it. I can't promise it'll be cheap.

If you're not an Owl (or our next door neighbor at the Field, the Bears), then you taste like chicken. Haven't seen any Foxes or Beefalo show up yet...

There's some marvelous recreation lakes east of Denver on the high prairie. Problem is and will be that National has to find a use for the land during the off-years, whether that be farming or ranching. I don't think National can afford fallow land 3 years out of four! Years ago, wasn't Gettysburg a major site for Jamborees? Could it be again? I defer to Ed and Eamonn our Pennsylvanians for input!

Hey, I'm someplace to the right of Barry Goldwater in my political leanings. It's not a BFO that Rendell is a professional card carrying member of the Politicians Union. Even so, his spin was funny, and to some extent honest.

Davlafont reminded me... Dad had a BUNCH of patrol caps left over when he retired (1961). I wore one of them most of the way through my youth time in Scouting (late 60s-early 70s). It was warm in winter and cool in summer. Fast forward to going on active duty in 1978. GAD, the fatigue cap we had was Gawd-Awful! Most LTs went and bought commercial baseball caps available at Cav Store, Ranger Joes, or Marlow Whites. Then, in 1981, the BDU arrived. We got a patrol cap again. Guess what? The pattern and construction? IDENTICAL to the patrol cap my Dad had. Later on, when we got ripstop BDUs, Mother Army finally made us get a ripstop BDU cap. Truth be told, I still prefer the original one, but it's sort of a moot point now. Mandatory wear out of BDU within the Army came and went. ACU's are the thing now. With the exception of General Shinseki and BG/Secretary White and their Armor Beret, the Army tries constanly to improve the uniform and make it better for the troops in harms way. That's unlike BSA and their uniform for Parlour Scouts.

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=35 I was driving home from maintenance workday at Bartle Scout Reservation. Sometimes I listen to this. You need to listen to the "Not My Job" segment with Governor Ed Rendell. He has some great takes on the political picture at the moment... not to mention some really funny takes on the movies of Madonna!

Well, since you didn't call for Wood Badge Order... I used to be an OWL (Hoot Hoot) and a Good Old OWL too (Hoot Hoot) But now I've finished OWLing and I don't know what to do... I'm growing old and feeble And I can OWL no more So I'm going to work my ticket if I can... John Owls, C-40-05