John-in-KC

I think the issue at the HS level is competition for time of the young person. EagleSon is taking 13 semester hours of dual credit classwork in his senior semester. He doesn't have time for senior-itis. Last night, he had calculus, environmental science, and Spanish homework, not to mention praciticing his part for band and practicing his solo for District Music Festival. He did homework from when he got in the door to the moment he went to his Moms. On Wednesdays, I drive him and two other seniors to a specialized brass band practice. EagleSon has a B average, one of these two is borderline A-, the other is solid A average. All three of them are commenting about how they're constantly re-balancing their loads. Granted, Venturing is designed for other than weekly meetings, but the fact of the matter is that many of our young people find pure recreational time squeezed out of their time budgets.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

If a horseshoe sinks to the bottom of your coffee pot/kettle, it's not yet done. John who having spent 4 years in Germany, wants my coffee strong enough to bring itself to the table.

Gunny, Lisa probably describes something close to the norm. I won't go into the causes. The fix is more a challenge, because Scouting at the adult level is volunteerism, pure and simple. One thing I've not tried, but may have some merit, is an adults only cookout some evening, as the weather warms. Put a little bit of a stick on it, but a lot of carrot. At the cookout and dinner, talk about why Scouters are needed. I think I'd also invite folks from your chartered partner to the fray as well. Finally, since I know where you live/work, visit with your Student Life folk ... see how they can leverage the young adults in your area. Lisa, come to think about it, that may be an option for you and your District as well, in populating more than one unit I'd appreciate feedback on the idea ... maybe I have my head where the sun does not shine...

As Ed says, not a biggie. Part of it is that we've already discussed this: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=181925

On one of my shirts I wear the OA flap of my youth lodge, now 30+ years merged away. You're allowed to be a member of ONE OA lodge. Wear the flap. Another option: In my youth, we were only allowed one pocket flap (this was the early 70s). We were allowed one neckerchief patch in a lifetime. I wore my OA Universal Arrow pin, and no flap at all. Someone since discovered lodge flaps can be a moneymaker.

I'd rather National look at the 1958/65 editions of the Boy Scout handbook and very carefully update them to be environmentally friendly and technically correct in certain other areas (first aid, one example).

Barry, I understand what you are saying, but I also understand, as do you , how much information we don't get in many of these posts. That's why I liked so much Eamonn's response to this one on the Baloo qualified leader. With time urgent, it was the right band-aid for this challenge. I think it's worth Belinda or him CM or her CC talking with their UC (back to that conundrum), and asking how their SE sees TP's in their Council. I think you'll agree that regardless of certain posters visions here, the fact of the matter is there is variance in how each of the 300+ local Councils do business. Have a great rest of the weekend, my friend, John

Spiney Norman, Advancement Wall Chart. It has a BSA stock number. You buy it at the Scout Shop, you charge your Troop Scribe with keeping it current. You take your laptop, sit in front of the chart, and bang the dates into Troopmaster.

Kimo, AND HE'S CURRENTLY REGISTERED AND DUES CURRENT IN SCOUTING, AND CURRENTLY REGISTERED AND DUES CURRENT IN A LODGE (as I've found out, that means registered in the lodge of the local council where your Scouter registration lies).

As a good friend Scouter locally said, make sure the youth understand who can help them should they become the victims of bullies!!!

I was a Boy Scout from 1968 - 1971 (and Explorer from then to 1974). I was damned glad I didn't have to go through them. I remember looking at some of the First Class kids at the last Ordeal I went to, and wondered WHAT IN THE SAM HILL were these guys doing being qualified for Candidacy??? To me, the Boy Scout Skill Award Belt loops were the fast beginning to the era of the Troop Method. They abandoned every good idea Bill Hillcourt ever had. Can you tell I feel about Boy Scout skill award belt loops the way I feel about berets: DING DONG THE BELT LOOPS ARE DEAD!!! THE BELT LOOPS ARE DEAD!!! THE BELT LOOPS ARE DEAD!!!

I second what Eamonn said about asking someone who has Baloo training to come along... of course, the Pack gets to pick up the tab Tour Permits are a PROCESS, designed to force us grown-ups to think about the trip, and do some proper planning. I'm not going to debate the circumstances of is this/is this not an appropriate trip. Regardless of what the National Council says, if the local SE says do one, then you do one. Period. It's a lesson about training, though, which should be filed away in the CC's continuity book. Several people in each Pack should be graduates of Baloo. Webelos leader, OWLS, and then Boy Scout leaders, whatever it's named this week. In the meantime, we are in "how do we get from here to there with the least pain?" To me, that's what Eamonn said: Borrow a BALOO leader!

Warren, We have folks from all ages and life experience levels in the regular poster pool. Relax. We all, to a man and a woman, worked through this. We all had some struggles, but it does come out ok in the wash. I promise

I assume that pre-meeting starts about 630-645? If so, then don't worry. Besides, he's the program guy. That's pretty much his lane to decide how to structure meetings. Give the man the support he needs!

CNY, I'd listen to your youth. Let them tell you what they want to do. I have to admit, HS students are busy folk !! I think some serious commitment to an activity or superactivity calls for long lead time.

GW, That's unfortunate. In my non-Scouting life, I'm VP and DVD committee chair of the local HS band boosters. All I have is a fairly simple hand cam and windows movie maker (or when I'm really lucky, EagleSon's Mac), and I can turn out good product for 640x480 resolution. Of course, I use a high bandwidth in mixdown, because I intend for the product to be on a CD or hard drive, not internet streamed. You'd think the National Lodge can afford access to decent gear (yes, I know the NL hasn't existed since 1947, but it sounds lots better than the "National Committee": THAT sounds like pure bureaucracy.) Sigh.

From what I see on the OA website, these are MP4 files, which means they need Quicktime instead of Windows Media Player. I think the idea is download, burn to a CD, and present as needed. Of course, that implies someone has a computer projector available. Frankly, the cost of downloading and burning locally is far cheaper for you than will Supply Corporation putting the material in their catalog ICS, John

Warren, If you read Lisa's post, you'll see how important VISION is to the Ticket. Vision will give you some clarity on tasks which need to be done (the GOALS). I do suggest a cup of coffee with your TG before your next weekend. Our patrol had 3 meetings, and our TG was there for 2 of them (one was simply a craft night working the Patrol flag). If you're having patrol meetings, seek your TG out! John I'm growing old and feeble...

I endorse everything emb021 has said. Over and above what he said, our original writer was looking at a co-educational issue. A VENTURE PATROL is a BOY SCOUT PROGRAM DIVISION activity, and is by its nature single gender. kahits, emb021 had the best idea a few posts back: If you, with other crews, can organize a Council Kodiak course, that's the first best solution. If you can piggyback on a neighboring Council Kodiak (or and Area Kodiak) as a training cluster, that's a second best solution. Now, it's time for some feedback (it's a gift after all )... What are your downstream thoughts as we've fed ideas to you?

Davlafont... To answer your question, Most of the patches you describe are called by BSA "temporary patches." They're to be worn on the right shirt pocket body. As a Program person (den leader), when you have completed: - New Leader Essentials. - Den Leader Position specific then you will be entitled to wear the "Trained" strip on your left sleeve. http://www.scouting.org/media/insigniaguide/05F.aspx When you have completed the requirements, you may be eligible to receive a training award and a square knot for above your left pocket.

As a Scout, Camp Whitsett (www.whitsett.org) 1968 (Trevorum and I share this great camp!) The Silver Knapsack Trail (backpacking trail based out of Whitsett) 1969 and 70 The John Muir Trail (part of the Pacific Crest Trail) 1971 Mataguay Scout Reservation 1971 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As a Scouter, The Great H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation, 2002 -6. I could not attend last year, work conflicted in such a way that I could not make reliable summer plans. Like WakWib, I am a member of the Tribe of Mic-o-Say, as is EagleSon. I served as a commish in 05 and 06. The Great Theordore Naish Scout Reservation, commissioner staff in both Central and Bear Camps, 2003 and onward. Philmont Training Center, 2003. EagleSon has been to Bartle 2002-5, Geiger in 2006 and 7 (HS students with summer jobs are tough to schedule) and on staff at Naish in 2006, 7 and applied for 8. While I was at PTC, he took the Mountain Trek in 2003.

Smile. Ask about camp staff scholarships for when he's out of high school. Our council makes sure EVERY staffer who applies for a staff scholarship gets at least $500 (community college), and if a 4 year school, at least $1000. Asking about scholarships to me implies he intends to work Scout Camp more than one season. Of course, if your council doesn't have a camp staff scholarship program... Ask about uniform expectations. I've equipped EagleSon with about half a dozen pr of BSA shorts, plenty of sox, and more than one belt. There's a staff work uniform, and at certain events staff is expected to turn out in Class A uniform. Ask about conflicts with school district dates. That was a source of trouble with EagleSon. He ended up serving elsewhere because his first choice camp conflicted with the first day of school in his school district. School trumps Scouting.

hops, I'd had, but Eagle732 seems to keep going and going. OK, so the Physician in Charge at Philmont has declared policy. We're at endgame. Eagle732 has two choices remaining: 1) Don't get the WFA certificate. Someone else will to answer the Philmont requirement, or his Crew will not be allowed onto the trail. 2) Get the certificate. Does that make sense?

One year the Pack EagleSon came up from had an end-of-year Pack meeting at a local camp/conference center (non-BSA). His Troop and Venturing Crew pulled together all the Arrowmen and Tribesmen of Mic-o-Say it could, and gave the kids and their families a BIG ceremony. Imagine adults and Scouts in native American attire, lighting the campfire, escorting these 7-10 year olds up to the fire for their recognition. Win-win in many, many ways.

Eagle 732. Opinions are like sphincters. Each of us here has one. Nary a one of these opinions will get you the answer to the question you seek. Calling or emailing Philmont, and asking for a reasonable explantion, will: Philmont (575) 376-2281 camping@philmontscoutranch.org Just make the call.