John-in-KC

Eagle92, Our summer daycamp in the past decade has had from 650 to 800 Cubs registered. We have 20 program stations. I don't think we've ever tried to do a school-year Day Camp.

Hal, I was a couple years behind you (1974). My HS was 3000 folk, I graduated in a class of not quite 1000. I think there were 3 issues which need to be evaluated for the 1970s program changes: - Anti-authoritarianism: Vietnam protests were at their peak. The older members of our generation were rejecting most everything which was "Establishment." That included Scouting. - The birthrate dropoff as the boom era waned. A boy born in 1960 was 11 and entering Boy Scouting in 1971. - The structural change in the family as society re-defined itself. An organization has to constantly look at how it relates to the larger community, be that locally or Nationally. Sometimes, the right answer is "don't change anything". Sometimes, it's make marginal adjustments, sometimes it's "re-invent." I think BSA tried to re-invent when it needed to make marginal adjustments. It'd be interesting some day to have a critical history written of this era of Scouting.

So sing the song Ed...

Absolutely agree with Ed. There's nothing in any program material I've ever read that says: Progressively move from POR category X to Y to Z. PL has the same weight as SPL has the same weight as Quartermaster has the same weight as Venturing Crew Secretary on an Eagle app.

Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness, Birds in the Wilderness, Birds in the Wilderness... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness, Waiting for the EAGLE Patrol! Waiting for the EAGLE Patrol! Waiting for the EAGLE Patrol... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness, Waiting for the EAGLE Patrol!

Lots of good comments here. I'm going to ask some questions, so we can see how big the elephant is... before we start taking "one bite at a time" on it. How many Cub Packs in your District? How many attended the past 3 years? What was gross attendance for same last three years? Those two numbers matter because one of your first decisions is to block units into manageable groups for the various stations. Our District uses a working number of 40 youth to a station as a max. Part of that is some facilities (ranges, cooking, and wood project) simply will not support more than 40 youth at a time. Do you have folks lined up to run the (up to) 3 shooting sports usually operated (BB guns, archery, slingshots)? Qualified folk here are a must! Kids love shooting sports. Do you have a pool or lakefront (qualified flat water) for swimming or canoeing? Again, specially qualified folk are a must-have to actually run these areas. Here's the neat part of program development: Anything you do, just about, can be brought under the theme of Knights of the Round Table! Your area heads and staff can angle many of their theatrics to the theme... As far as staff goes, have you thought about tapping into not only Cub Scouters, but also older (14-15) year old Boy Scouts? Scouts can provide a source of staff for many activities at Day Camp, and free staff T-shirts and a lunch or two go a long way in compensating them. Of course, telling the good ones you are willing to be a reference when they go for real, paid jobs is also a help Have fun, and keep remembering KISMIF!

Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness, Birds in the Wilderness, Birds in the Wilderness... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness, Waiting for the BEAVER Patrol! Waiting for the BEAVER Patrol! Waiting for the BEAVER Patrol... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness, Waiting for the BEAVER Patrol!

wingnut said: "I told you it was time to pull out of California." I left in 1978. My legal residency became Missouri in December 1989 after I left active military service. This is another example of the "Peeple's Republik of Kalifonia!" using foolish decisionmaking processes. It happens at the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial levels there. Sigh. Bodysurfing Refugio was so much fun in its day.

Hal, No. What's next is Get Smart, the movie! Mel Brooks and Monty Python: Leading comedy since Boomers were Scouts!

THE SPANISH INQUISITION? Nobody escapes the Spanish Inquisition...

Short version: Do it as a service hour opportunity out of uniform. Sometimes the folks in Irving have their head where the sun does not shine.

Maybe the National Council, Council Solutions Group (and wherever HA falls now), H&S folks ought to publish a position paper, saying exactly what they mean to say in simple declarative English. Of course, common standard definitions, so each Council/Scout Reservation is working from a datum point, should also be part of amended National Camp Standards.

Kahuna, Would you care for a lovely breakfast? We have Spam, Spam and Eggs, Spam, Eggs, and Sausage, Spam, Egs, Sausage and Spam, Spam, Spam Eggs, Spam, Sausage, and Spam, Spam, Spam Spam...

Internally, the adult leadership needs to embrace a full range of youth. I know a guy who thought the object was to move kids up to Venturing automatically as they hit 14 and 9th grade entry. I know a SM who pushed his son on the Troop as SPL. I do think, given all the activities at grades 10-12, there is a "right time" to reassess the young man and see what part of Scouting's program is best for him. Sometimes Venturing will be the answer, when the young man is carrying a busy life. Sometimes the Troop may well still fill the bill

?????"Pre-District BOR"????? EBORs come in three flavors: The Council Advancement Committee chooses which methods a council will use: - Board of Review conducted at the Unit, with a District Advancement Committtee Guest Member. - Board of Review conducted by the District. - Board of Review conducted by the Council. (ACP&P page 30) Now, if the Scout fails to receive unanimous approval for selection, then the appeal procedures, to include BORs as needed, kick into gear. I really hope you didn't imply there's a unit BOR for a Scout before he attends his EBOR...

I protest! We're not talking about llamas. Llamas have rights too...

If the COR is a parent or relative is but one example... I was COR when EagleSon did his EBOR. The relations rule trumps the inherent interest of the COR and IH in their program. Besides, the last thing EagleSon needed was Dad asking more tough questions. He gets that regularly...

Cool. As far as matters of faith go, that can begin right in the campsite, at first call. Roust em out, get em around in a circle, spend some moments in prayer, a SM minute on faith... and let 'em run. That can work for any unit which walks the walk on its faith .

Like Lisa, I think you've handled this very well ... Remember, you're the one on the ground; sometimes a tiny piece to the puzzle is a bigger key than we think. On to the holidays and the future Your young men are blessed to have you as their Scoutmaster.

OGO, Unless there is a prohibition... there is nothing visible that says "why not." There may, though, be some bad blood betweent the two. Ask the District guy what's going on. Simple, direct. If needed, ask him with the District Chair and/or Commish present. If the chair is inside the unit (vice the Advancement Committee guest), tell him to get his act together.

E, Sounds to me like the local Council sent the Director to A NCS... not THE NCS covering Cub Scout Day Camping... There are fixable issues here, many involving manpower and sweat equity. The are issues which will take qualifed people (rangemasters in particular), inspecting equipment at the point of issue and rejecting items not in order. I think the biggest issues, planning and seeking volunteers, has already begun for the 2010 season. BTW, those who do have gut-checks on quality of program delivered have a recourse: Through their CORs, get the attention of the District Chairman and the Council Camping Committee Chair.

OGO, I certainly perceive (as do others) that there is an issue here, no matter the structure of the optimized program or policy. What's the pushback?

Clarity: As BW most likely intended to say, ACP&P #33088 proscribes the Scout/Venturer's direct contact program leaders from sitting any Board of Review. That means: Scoutmaster Assistant Scoutmaster in a Boy Scout Troop Advisoer Associate Advisor in a Venturing Crew. The Scoutmaster may introduce the Scout to the Board. He may stay in the room to clarify any point specifically asked him. He is NOT a member of the BOR, and may not vote on the decision to elevate to the next rank. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OGO, The Chartered Partner is the owner of record of BSA's license to operate a franchse of a program. As such, it is never inappropriate for the IH and COR to sit on something as important as an EBOR. They own the unit; they can assert said ownership rights. Now, what's the backstory, as Beavah asked?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

The only restriction I see in ACP&P #33088 is the candidate's immediate/extended family, Scoutmaster and ASMs, as program side people, may not sit the EBOR. The COR may certainly sit the EBOR, in fact, he can declare a place at the table if he/she so chooses. That said, Beavah's comment about "lightly" comes to mind.

I like what Beavah just wrote. I think these two young men deserve two weekends of not getting the Outdoor Method of Scouting. I like the idea of letting Scouts define their consequences, but having a more dramatic consequence in backup. We are coming up on MLK. I think NOW is the time for these Scouts to be exposed to what happens when racism is writ large. Think about having both the assassination of Dr King and the riots to hand. Racism is something that should resonate at the "gut-check" level. There's a part of me that wants these Scouts to experience intimidation as part of their consequence. Something tells me they've never been on the far side fo the bridge. I don't know how to achieve this, though, in a world where YP and G2SS matter. I think, finally, Barry hits on a good point of having the parents in the background: BUT!!! there is an "if and only if" in that: If a quiet conversation with the parents show "they get it", then this can happen. If the parents are part of the problem, then you may well have a bigger problem. It may not show up now, but it will. Keep your guard up.