John-in-KC

Why are we talking about this both here and in the Council Relations Forum? I have no problem when Ranger staff, working with either BSA, State, USFS, or Corps of Engineers Foresters, determines logging is necessary for the health of a forest. Now, if a Scout Executive simply determines to log off a property, for the sake of the timber $$$$??? That's a completely different issue. Scouts are Trustworthy and Thrifty, good environmental stewards: I would hope any logging is done in the best interests of forest management.

I'd ask for a friendly cup of coffee with the CC and the COR/IH. This is an equity issue. If they say no, the tactics you are left with are decidedly unfriendly.

Here's my take: If you do not like it, have a heart to heart talk with the President of your Council. Ask him to run it up the senior volunteer chain. Ideally, for you to have this talk, you should be an IH/COR or independ voting member of the Council.

shortridge: That might have been the shirt the man was wearing. He might have been a volunteer Ranger, he might have been chairman of the Council Properties Committee. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'll admit: Logging one of our properties simply to raise money is, to my way of thinking, dumb. Logging, as part of prudent and professional forest management, is a wholly different story. I trust and pray our Councils are doing this latter. If it means some old growth wood comes down because it's diseased/infested and the rot will extend if untreated, then so be it.

Let the board run its course is my advice. EagleSon's EBOR ran over an hour, but you could hear the laughter 150m away. Sometimes, a board gets going to town, and it becomes a major, positive memory.

??? My youth camp (Whitsett) was in the middle of a National Forest. My current reservation (H Roe Bartle) is in Corps of Engineers managed land. There's more than a little need for prudent forest management, to include some timber cutting. I don't see the problem here.

I can pay $1,000+ for a week at a "dude ranch", and about the only thing different from Philmont Training Center would be the quality of the cuisine. I'm not saying PTC is bad, it's a notch or two above a good cafeteria in your hometown ... but it's not gourmet! The spouses program is excellent, if your wife even likes God's open air. They do fun stuff, and they do some of the ultimate "shop til you drop" trips I've ever seen... after all, Santa Fe is Beverly Hills with mountains instead of traffic.

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment. I do think that Mr Maynard better have a good relationship with his COR, because Mr COR is going to need to give Mr Maynard some high cover: Memo for XX XXX, DE, XXX District, XXX Council: Our organization will not renew the Scouting membership of Billy Bob Jumpback, BSA 12345678. We will not revisit this issue. We will be glad to transfer our records to his gaining unit. Very truly yours, Joe Smith, COR... Then stand by for the storm...

Criminy. Let's start by reviewing the Advancement Requirements for a Palm: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/eaglepalm.aspx Be active in your troop and patrol for at least three months after becoming an Eagle Scout or after award of last Palm. (Eagle Palms must be earned in sequence, and the three-month tenure requirement must be observed for each Palm.) Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Make a satisfactory effort to develop and demonstrate leadership ability. Earn five additional merit badges beyond those required for Eagle or last Palm. (Merit badges earned any time since becoming a Boy Scout may be used to meet this requirement.) Take part in a Scoutmaster Conference. Complete a board of review. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There is no requirement for the young man to hold a POR. Demonstrating his leadership ability can be done as a camp staffer, can be done in his community activities, can be done in a second chartered unit. Further, per p28 of ACP&P, you've allowed him to hold the POR for the tenure. If he's not doing the job, the onus is on you to mentor, counsel, and ultimately, remove Scout spirit: We can have that debate 100 times and again, but I'm of the school that interprets that as how he acts the other 167 hours of his weekly life, away from the Troop meeting. Five MBs that haven't been used so far: That's a metric, pure and simple. We're talking here about the Conference and the BOR. If the Scouts' Dad has the clout you claim he does, this conversation may need to move to a higher level: If so, we're not talking about friendly cups of coffee, but rather a business meeting with the CC, COR, District Advancement Chair, and the District Commissioner. Why do I say "may" in the paragraph above? Only you can decide the right level of "friendly cups of coffee" or "formal business meetings" is for this situation. You know the local folk. You hopefully know what buttons they'll respond to. As a concluding thought, knowing your District Advancement Chair, well enough to have a cup of coffee with him, is a good thing. Of all the District Committee folk, he and the Activities Chair have the most direct effect on the lives of your Scouts. Let us know how this turns out.

See that you responded while I was writing. Bluntly, this is time for a friendly cup of coffee with you (as SM), your unit Commish (or the District Commish), and the District Advancement Chair. As far as refusing to recharter the Scout, you'd best be talking to your DE about that. Dropped boys are something they'll get hot about, what you don't want is a second-order consequence.

It depends. If the young man is co-chartered in a Troop and a Crew, either one can run off the Conference and the BOR. If his co-chartering is in two different Districts, either one can too. If, however, the young man is chartered in your Troop only, then the Scoutmaster should run off the Conference, and the unit should run off the BOR. Do you have a copy of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088?

Merlyn said 1961.... That means Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush the Elder, Clinton and Bush the Younger all bought in. It may not be on the list, TheScout, but it's been bought into by the Executive Branch.... So, my question for both of you: Is this horse dead yet? It's been beaten on for two pages...

and food (and our Council budgets pretty darn healthy for crackerbarrel after the Ordeal), and insurance for the event...

Scouts and Scouters who are members of my parish have been invited to wear their uniforms Scout Sunday. Acolyte need not robe up if he/she is in Scout uniform. Pastor is going to do his children's sermon on a cross of Matt 22:21 (what we owe our Caesar, or government is our good efforts as people) and Ephesians 2:8-10 (we are His creation, He sets aside good works for us to do because we are saved). Uniformed Scouts who want will collect the offering and usher Lord's supper. BTW, we're dealing with both BSA and GSUSA in one fell swoop.

Yes, there is a Position Specific Training for new Unit Commissioners. I took it last spring, it was an all-day course.

Not only have the Troops in the District had their PWD, the DISTRICT PWD has been and gone...

ASM915: Being a Scout cut both ways in EagleSon's university search. At a Jesuit university, when we were campus visiting, the Admissions Officer didn't want to know that he was in Scouting; he wanted his list of ACHIEVEMENTS in Scouting. An Eagle himself, he said "Eagle alone isn't enough anymore. Troop leadership alone isn't enough anymore. How many times have you been to Philmont. What are your duties in Lodge leadership? When were you on Camp Staff? The longer your resume, the better you'll compete." OTOH, at a certain school, a certain professor of music flipped his attention span to the ON position the instant my son said he was an Eagle Scout. "I can make better musicians, but I have no tolerance for folks who aren't good people when they arrive here." PING!!! Lisa'bob: You're somewhat near the world of higher education ... what are you hearing from your peers in admissions offices vis a vis Scouting and admissions?

Hannity is not worth my time. Neither is Mark Levin. Neither is Steven Colbert. NPR, C-Span, Fox and Friends, the Newshour, and yes, Rush... I think I'm grown up enough to listen for the biases and strip them out ... or talk back to my car radio and tell the guy why he's a bloody fool. If anyone's interested, politifact.com has created the Obameter... they've cataloged all his promises and are going to track them. Off to OA election team training... later.

A very long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Mom was my Den Mother (yes, that was the term), and we met every week, on a set day of the week, after school. Not so long ago, in a galaxy a little closer in... EagleSon's den met every week, on set day of the week. Routine. It works!

http://www.scouting.org/highadventure/philmont/hikers/companies.aspx http://www.ldsbsa.org/pdf/philmont%20acceptance/2008%20Your%20Trip%20&%20Arrival%20Plans.pdf From both these documents, it looks like the PSR schoolbusses will pick you up from and deliver you to Raton... Call the Ranch to confirm PM me too. I assume you will board AMT 3/4 at KC. True?

Guy, Saturday night last, I was at table with about half of "Three Point Play", the women's basketball pep band at the University of Missouri. Every young man at the table was an Eagle Scout. Every one of them had been to Philmont. There's room for both, but I submit pedantic Scoutmasters "be here or be gone" don't have the strength of program in their Troops that voluntary attendance is all that's needed. If a Scoutmaster doesn't understand that High School students have a fair bit on their table, even before we talk debate/band/athletics and clubs, then he's not our Barry, and he needs a serious reality check. A good friend, a SM in another Troop, had his son in the same HS class as EagleSon. We saw each other at District events as well as at school events. At that point, his SM conferences with teens arriving at adulthood were often about managing tough choices. He happened to believe "a little give goes a long way."

Guy, There is nothing in any Venturing program literature which says a Crew has to have an outdoors component. The high adventure for a Crew-based band might well be a springtime trip to a Festival to compete in band. Our HS Symphonic Band did that a couple years ago; the good side-bar was they also had time to ski ... did I mention this Festival was in Breckinridge?

Barry, From where I sit, Scouting is the best broad-brush youth developer. To me, the question is how do we manage "ages and stages" as the young person starts finding passions and starts investing time and energy in them. Time available to a youth is finite; at some point balancing the general and the specific will become a learning experience. Frankly, I'm beginning to think Venturing is a stronger opportunity, especially for HS juniors and seniors (16-18 year olds), in part because of the duality of its time committments (lower need for regular in-town meetings, more intense and in-depth experiences during time on activities and adventures.

withdrawn. Any mod encountering can remove. JKC(This message has been edited by john-in-kc)

Albert, Welcome to the Forums. You hit on a key point: Adults, and not just the parents, have to run interference for the children. I laud you for going to bat with your Scouts' teachers!