John-in-KC

TCD, In fact, more than a few MBs have been swapped in/swapped out over the century of Boy Scouting in the US.

OGE, I don't want to dispute you, but there is something units can do to keep youth members from going to someone else's Merit Badge Mills. It's called implement the policies in place in ACP&P #33088 and Requirements #33215. I've stated it in a different thread: The Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper. He can tell Bobby Firstclass NO, I will not authorize you to take it from Merit Badge Mill X. What a District Advancement Chair, such as Rick can do is get a minute of time at RT and say something to the Scoutmasters. Rick can also go to his District Publicity chair and ask something be put in the newsletter or online. Rick can work through the Commissioner Service (if there be a strong one in his neck of the Korean woods) and ask them to spread the word that the Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper. Finally, Rick can ask his DE to publish an e-note to Scoutmasters. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rick, there is a challenge for you, though. I know where you are, and I know how long you have many of your youth members. We need to work within the limitation of their DEROS. How strong are the permanent party Scouters in your District, the semi-permanent ex-pats like you? You need to get a superb roster of Counselors together, guys who will do whatever it takes to help a kid get a badge, particularly if he's in those final couple months before The Big Bird Home. War Story: I remember taking Atomic Energy Merit Badge as a youth. It was sponsored by North American Rockwell's Los Angeles Atomic Energy facility. It was a huge commitment, by parents and Scouts. Eight weeks of 2 hour evenings, small groups working through various parts of the facility. At the end, a gang of qualified folk worked the final counseling piece and exam. Why the story: Think about Aviation MB (you know why I picked that). Think about the facilities you have, think about the people who are available. Don't organize MBUs, but rather organize MB clinical programs... small group (20 youth limit), several Counselors (so you can keep the final testing ratio right as well as the discovery/teaching/learning portions right), lots of demonstrations/exhibits/hands on spread over 4-8 weeks, and finally properly executed final sit-down. With the resources you have at hand, here's just a start: - Citizenship in the Nation - Citizenship in the World (hey, these kids are expats in their own right) - Aviation (your particular case) - Fire Safety - Engineering - Fingerprinting (think CID/MPI and MP station would love the chance to show themselves in a positive light?) - Rifle Shooting/Shotgun shooting ... your DE had better well be willing to waive NRA certification for Armed Forces qualified range officers/NCOICs/armorers and coaches! - Weather - Truck Transportation ... and that's just a quicky list. HTH, YIS

Sadly, the only way we'll know is if there's an uptick in incidents God help the youth we're here to serve.

BA, My Council Reservations maintain Lodge books for one full camping season after the session the Scout attends, then they are discarded. That's why our Council Advancement Committee, together with the Camping Committee, says Camp MB partials may be finished at camp for only one season after the Scout takes them. Of course, if the Scout seeks out an in-town MBC, he can continue the badge process to his 18th B-day.

shortridge, I have to admit, I use "friendly cup of coffee" a LOT. Part of that is that reasonable people can do an awful lot in simple friendship. Thinking things over together in a friendly environment is a lot more helpful in about 95% of all Scouting than is "go confront the stupid sonofagun." Sadly, the outlying 5% are health & safety or YP issues which need immediate and sometimes direct address.

BadenP, There is no way in Hades I will wear the sackcloth garbage of a pair of gray pants or shorts that BSA Supply Corporation provides. The quality, fit and finish are absolutely atrocious. They are trash. Cabelas, Columbia, REI, BassPro all provide better quality, fit, and finish for less cost. Our Crew wears the recommended uniform with the exception of the trousers. Belt is members option, so long as it is a Scouting belt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To ScoutmasterBradley, I don't know if you're talking about Geiger Scout Reservation of the Pony Express Council BSA or not. I know they use green shorts, green socks, self-selected Scouting belt, and a Venturing shirt. I've seen the SE wear this uniform when he's on property at suppertime. It may not be Hoyle, but as I've stated elsewhere here, the National Council does not put resources into uniform; it's simply voluntary compliance.

Oh...My...Word! Awilson, if you are about to be the Committe Chair, you can not, must not go behind the back of your Scoutmaster. You two are partners in delivering the promise to the youth. His job is the Program. Your job is the Support. I ask the two of you to sit down and have several friendly cups of coffee together. You two need to be on a common grid of Vision and Goals... what you see the Troop looking like in a couple years and the big ticket milestones on the trail. Then, you also have to figure out a little more detail of how you're both going to get there. It does read to me that one goal of yours is improving: Scoutfamily communication Scoutmasterfamily communication Committeefamily communication May I offer a win-win? Would your Scoutmaster be willing to charge your Troop Scribe to create a bi-weekly newsletter. Leverage the Treasurer, Secretary, and Advancement Coordinator for adult inputs (in other words, they are accountable to the Scribe to deliver from the Committee content, the SPL, QM, and Patrol Leaders for yout inputs, and the Scoutmaster can have a word or two as he needs to. Your Scoutmaster has been upfront with you! Please, do not undercut him by going behind his back.

Lisa, ScoutNet. I am making (a perhaps rash) an assumption here that it has management tools at the National Council level, that allow for data mining and analysis.

Training is only one tool in the toolbox. Good relationships, to me, are the plumber's pipe wrench and the cheater bar. How many times here have we encountered a situation between people, or between organizations, where good relations just aren't there. - Sometimes it's poor group communications. - Sometimes it's just "it's always been that way (or at least has been beyond memory). - Sometimes it's a boor or a horse's ### in a key position. The lesson I've learned along the trail thus far is the traditional Chinese denotation of Gung Ho: All pull together Whatever our position is on the adult side of Scouting, we all have to pull together, for the sake of the kids. Lisa said it in another thread, and it should be graven on every Scouter's forehead: Play Nice

I may get very unpopular with regional MB programs, like the Aviation MB "counseled" at the SAC Museum. I'm now the guy in my District, working for the District Advancement Chairman, who trains MB Counselors. I've started emphasizing this particular point from the National Council: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx "Pick a Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors. These counselors have special knowledge in their merit badge subjects and are interested in helping you." In fact, here is very similar verbiage from the Guide for Merit Badge Counselors: http://www.scouting.org/en/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors.aspx "A Scout first expresses an interest in a particular merit badge by letting his unit leader know. To get him started, the leader may give him a signed Application for Merit Badge (blue card) along with the name and telephone number of a district/council approved merit badge counselor. The Scout then contacts the merit badge counselor and makes an appointment. The merit badge counselor sets a date and time to meet with the Scout and his buddy, and may suggest the Scout bring the merit badge pamphlet along with the blue card." Not only that, here are the words in the Supplemental Training Module syllabus, 18-125: http://old.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-125/18-125.pdf "When a Scout has decided on a merit badge he would like to earn, he obtains from his Scoutmaster the name and phone number of the district/council-approved merit badge counselor. At this time, the Scoutmaster also can issue the Scout a signed Application for Merit Badge (blue card)." The Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper. Yes, the PLC can say "We want to go to USS Whateveritusedtobe for an overnight activity and earn Whichever MB there." By my read of ACP&PP as well as BSA requirements, as well as other BSA literature, the Scoutmaster can say NO. He can make his own assessment of a program and decide the Counselor is not following procedures. Yes, the Troop can go there, and can get the learning, but then the SM may decide (and perhaps should decide) to send youth members to local Counselors in the District and Council? Thoughts?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Look at the bottom ten earned nationally. If there's a coherent pattern (they're earned primarily in states with economic activity of that badge), keep them. If there's no coherent pattern, dump them, and replace with stuff that's more advanced. We might be able to divide Computers, as one example, into Computer USER MB and Computer NETWORKING MB. As for me, I think most regulars here know what's on my mind: Bring Cooking MB back to the Eagle Required List, even if it means adding to that list and dropping an optional merit badge.

One note on internal procedure: At the camps I've served, each staffer has two books. One is his "INSTRUCTOR or COUNSELOR" book. They're dirty, they have comments in them, they're not meant for leaders eyes. They are where the staff annotate completion of requirements, along with special comments for the Lodge director/AD. The other book is the LODGE book. This is what is shown the leaders. Finally, the cards themselves are annotated with "passed with flying colors" stuff the night before final testing, the items one of the adult MB Counselors or the Dir/AD had to re-evaluate personally are annotated after testing, and the afternoon of final campfire is a major time of paperwork for the staff.

Trev, old friend, We're talking about our Scouting Association, not one in Japan or India. When you sum Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in the United States, you have the by far majority of the population. To Novice Cubmaster, may I point out to you that Christ Himself says not one word of the Law has been removed. May I point out to you that Orthodox and Conservative Judaism, at least as practiced in the United States, still adhere to no pork. May I point out to you that Islam also holds in no pork. So what's your point about homosexuality? It's wrong in the OT, and it's wrong in the NT. Do not mistake the liberty granted the Christian in the era of grace for license.

emb, Please point me to the pages and paragraphs in the Insignia Guide which only authorize the sash with the Class A/field uniform. I've been an Arrowman since 1970, and I sure as heck remember the Arrowmen running crews and the Ordeal Master (they weren't Elangomats then) wearing their sashes with their work clothes. Heck, I think I can point you to pictures in the 1965 Edition of the Handbook, if it wasn't in Missouri and I'm on eldercare in Nevada.

Fred, If you read the MB Counselor orientation, the procedure is supposed to go like this: Billy FirstClass: Gee Mr Scoutmaster, Orienteering sounds like a really fun merit badge. I'm getting interested in drafting maps, and I'd like to see how maps get used in competition. Mr Scoutmaster: That's great Billy. I know Mr Northpointing Compass, he'd be a good counselor for you. Why don't you get a MB app from the Scribe and I'll give you his contact info. Billy: Thanks!! Some minutes later, Billy has filled out the front side of the app, and the SM fills out the contact info. Key point: The Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper. Whether it's camp, during the program year, or a MB day program, the SM decides if the quality of program meets the standards of ACP&P and BSA Requirements, and authorizes MB Cards based on that decision. In the Troop EagleSon was in, the SM or one of the ASMs would sit down with each kid as summer camp approached. The Scout would have an idea of the MBs he wanted to take. The SM would cross-check the calendar and the daily schedule, and if OK, the Scout would be given a stack of "white cards" (same thing as a blue card, but locally produced and cheaper to the Council) to fill out. When he was finished, the SM/ASM would have a signing session. That all make sense?

Thank you

The bookends of Scouting are God. "to do my duty to God..." and "reverent." Within the vast majority of American faith (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in chronological order), homosexuality is against God's will. Period. The last time I checked, God is eternal and unchanging. It's we mortals who want to change things to meet our own ideas. If you really want the verses, I'll cite them for you. It may take a little while to cite the Koran verses, but I'll find them.

I'm not addressing the issues of the Troop. They're big, and they need to be dealt with on the ground by the Unit Commissioner and the District Executive. As regards your son, he documents everything. I don't care if he sneezes in her presence, or he sees her at school and says 'Good morning.' Document everything. Remember also that any rejection by an EBOR requires the Board to follow up in writing with the reasons the Scout was deficient, and his path of recourse in an appeal (FYI... that runs through the District Advancement Chair (a volunteer), not through the unit. Please, keep us informed. Many of us here want to see how this comes out.

Eagle Scout Billybob Smith earns his first Bronze Palm on December 1. All other requirements dealt with, he is eligible for his first Gold Palm on March 1. That is 31+31+28 or 90 days. Assuming Billybob gets his first Gold Palm on March 1, and assuming again all other requirements met, he is eligible for his first Silver Palm on June 1. That is 31+30+31 or 92 days. Assuming Billybob gets his first Sivler Palm on June 1, and assuming again all other requirements met, he is eligible for his second Bronze Palm on September 1. That is 30+31+31 or 92 days. Assuming Billybob gets his second Bronze Palm on June 1, and assuming again all other requirements met, he is eligible for his second Gold Palm on December 1. That is 30+31+30 or 91 days. Three months, by the calendar. That's my read of ACP&P. Have I answered your question?

What Barry said. If the Professional Service staffer running the Scout Reservation said NO, and the SM decided this was important enoughthen at summer's end I'd ask my IH/COR to tell the SE: Thank you for your lack of support, Troop 123 won't be back. Comments like that get the SE's undivided attention. Money talks ... and what we think is for the best of the kids sometimes need be couched in $$$ terms.

I agree with Lisa. In fact, donert isn't even playing out of the Scoutmaster's Handbook ... most any edition. We're all in it to serve the youth, and Scouting works right when all the moving parts work in concert. What does this mean for the Program Officer (CM/SM/Coach/Advisor) and his Committee Chair? Simple: Cultivate and maintain good relations with your Chartered Partner Is that tougher to do than to write? Ask Lisa for her story, she's been there and done it!

OPINION: Units should have the adult wherewithal (CC, Adv Coord, at least one other Committeeperson) to have a BOR within 1 week of any Scouts' request. Yes, the Scout should request it. Yes, it should also be a scheduling thing (teaches patience, part of the CHARACTER Aim). Yes, the Committee should be able to make it happen. Units that have their own scheduled BORs, Scouts be hung, need to look and see if they are using the Adult-Run Method of Scouting.

God's Country, Southern California. ... at least it was from 1968, when I was a Tenderfoot, to 1978, when I graduated UC Santa Barbara Trevorum and I both hail from what was the San Fernando Valley Council.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

The First Edition of the Compleat Walker by Colin Fletcher. Starr's Guide to the John Muir Trail.

Lisa has it spot on. Scouting uses a Chartering (licensing or franchise) system, partnering with local organizations. Scouting provides training, support, and program. The Chartered Partner agrees to embrace Scouting as a youth-serving organization. The Institutional Head and the Chartered Organization Representative of your partner are the ones who "hire and fire" volunteers. They're the decisionmakers, especially on removing a key leader. PERIOD. If your Troop has not minded the p's and q's of a working relationship with your Chartered Partner, Lisa's follow-on comment comes home to roost. You have another set of issues to deal with. If you are the SM, you might want to have a friendly talk with your Unit Commissioner and ask for help in going to the Chartered Partner. If you are an ASM, your path is through your SM. If you're just a parent, and not a member of BSA, may I suggest joining the team of Scouters who serves your unit? Then you have skin in the game. Would you care to give more direct examples of what's going on? Your brush is fairly damning and fairly broad, and we can't get beyond the right procedure without understanding your situation...