John-in-KC

EagleSon, from the day the light blinked on for his project, to the day he got District OK, took something like 45 days. It was pretty darn fast, but it was something he believed in. He wasn't in a panic hurry, but he once he connected the dot, it didn't take long. BTW, his project execution phase took five months, because he could only do it in 5man-hour segments.

gwd, You do have some choice over whether Bobby comes with you as a Provisional. If this situation isn't acceptable to you, you can nicely say "I'm sorry, but I don't think we're the Troop for Bobby's Provisional camp trip." Your first best interest is your own Troop.

Follow Lisa and Beavah's advice!!! Your chartered partner needs to do its work in leader selection ... and unselect this couple as leaders. There's one other person I'd touch base with: Your unit commissioner. Ask him to attend the function and to be relatively close to your unit. If Mrs F-bomb attends and launches, then the commish can be on hand to ask her to leave, politely. If she then refuses, between him and the Professionals, she can be removed by more drastic means.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Trust me, this is a political minefield. I live in Kansas City. There are folks in my Council whose ancestors were murdered by irregulars from both the Union and the Confederacy. The lore and recountings of the Red Leg Jayhawkers raids on Clinton and Osceola, MO, as well as Quantrill's Raiders attack on Lawrence, are very much alive and well in my neck of the woods. It's still at the point where, when the Universities of Kansas and Missouri meet for their fall football game in the Big 12 Conference, their fans are physically separated at the stadium. Different entrances, exits, and a Do Not Cross line. For Cardinal, the Troop you are a friend of needs to check in with its Chartered Partner. There can be fallout, both in the papers and on TV. The Chartered Partner needs to decide if it wants the publicity which might happen. If the Chartered Partner gives its OK, then doing what Stosh suggested has merit. BTW, for Gern... sometime you need to visit the Confederate prisoner of war cemetery at Rock Island Arsenal: The flag of the Confederacy flies over those fallen soldiers, and that's a US Army installation. PS: Thanks. Edited to reflect better wording.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Like others, I want to see skills trainings. I may be different than others, though... I want to see some specific skillsets, vice a general campout. Don't waste my time: - I'd like to see several "camp cookery" events: One Dutch oven, one lightweight, one just weekend camp. - I'd like to see an improvised shelter weekend. Stay warm even in ugly conditions. - I'd like to see an orienteering/gps weekend. - I'd like to see an equipment demo weekend. Whether its a tent, clothing, or a stove, much has changed these past 40 years Why? Too many adults I know in Scouting don't have a good idea of fieldcraft.

Then, if you are the CC or the CM, get your opposite number and have a business visit upon your IH and COR. This is their matter to attend to. Even contacting the SE is a Chartered Partner matter.

Welcome to the Forum. Remember the most significant fact about the adult side of Scouting: Your role is to support your COR, CC, and SM as they provide, support, and present the program. We are the Adults in Adult Association. We are Counselors in Advancement. The program is for the youth members. That we have fun is simply a blessing. Have fun.

Are you going to the Training Center? OR are you going to a backcountry training program sponsored by the Training Center? If you're going to the Training Center, you need Class A, Class B, and recreational clothes for the time you're there. Good boots are nice to have. I have a couple pair of "field" walking shoes that I used there in addition to my field boots. Towel, fart-sack, and a blanket (you want a good moisture absorbing layer between you and the BSA approved vinyl of your mattress). Pillow. Oh... bring your camera OR your videocam. Oh... bring your laptop. PTC has wi-fi now. IF, however, you're going to the backcountry, bring your pack as you'd go on a 50-mile trail, plus at least one Class A uniform. You can buy Philmont Nalgene bottles on site. Oh... be prepared for a great week!!!

OK, Mr ASM. You work for the SM in his role as the program guy. Your options: 1) Have a quiet cup of coffee with him offsite from a Scouting activity. Explain your position. 2) Resign your ASM position, go to the Committee, and lay it down on the SM when he gives his monthly report. You must ask yourself "Is this Courteous?" 3) Resign your Troop positions, and let it be known there is NWIH your troop will sniff those Webelos. You must ask yourself "Is this Brave?" 4) Find a way to personally deal with. Feedback is a gift I hope you can tell I'm urging you to have a quiet conversation offsite with the SM.

Without hi-jacking this, the best place to get information when Bobbie says Billy has been convicted is the Court. Trust me, spouses have been known to do nasty things to each other. The CM and CC need hard information, not rumor. It's available in public records.

Here's my take: At my church, the minutes of our monthly church council meetings get posted. Some things, such as matters involving people do not get posted. In fact, the key officers go into Executive Session. The members of this Pack are spreading word about one of them by way of "He's convicted of DUI." While the truth is always the best defense should someone be hit with a slander or libel lawsuit, who wants to pay an attorney to get to the point of having the suit dismissed? I certainly don't. This needs minimal, calm, quiet, businesslike treatment, not the Den Leaders and Committee people talking with each other and "voting" the person out. What happens when a Scouter talks to Mrs BobbieSue Jumpback, who is a parent, not a leader, and she spreads the news..... ???? HMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Any education or training is what each of us make of it. That goes for an undergrad degree, grad school, initial entry training in the Armed Forces, continuing ed, volunteer training ... whatever have you. I care not: If you don't want to attend a training, you can find an excuse or a reason. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Those said, An educator or trainer has to be not only skill-proficient, but also communication-proficient. If you cannot share the knowledge, you just wasted the time of your training audience. Lisa and I have been in fairly strong agreement for a while on that. I've said before and I say again: The leadership psych given me in WB21C was a useful revisit to well-plowed ground. It wasn't my root reason for attending. For me, the root was to expand my Scouting network beyond my "usual suspects." Fresh input matters. Now, a question: To Mr Desertrat: "Wondering aloud...if councils put a fraction of the effort into basic scout leader training that they put into WB, we'd really have something...." Sir, this is a binary choice: Are you part of the solution (doing something about training by joining those who train others) or are you part of the problem (and doing nothing other than commenting on an internet board is ... doing nothing, and being part of the problem) ???

Raise the issue over a friendly cup of coffee with your Committee Chair. This is best handled quietly and offline.

Lady Leigh, Thanks for the update. For me, this is not a Committee matter. This is a Chartered Partner (as the licensee of record) and a Scout Council matter. IMO, the Pack Committee Chairman and the Cubmaster need to have a business sit-down with the Chartered Organization Representative and the IH. It's their franchise with BSA that is in play. They are the only two decisionmakers. Period When the IH and COR have given guidance, then reporting can move forward. Yes, the SE should be called, imo the COR is the only person who should make that call. In doing this, I absolutely agree with nldScout ... this is serious stuff, the guy has been in court before. At the same time, this is not the business of the Committee, nor is it the business of the Den Leaders. It is the Chartered Partner's business.

EagleSon has two medals. He has a regular medal inside the BSA frame of his certificate and his medal. I got him the sterling set as my gift to him; that medal is in his jewelry box now. At this point in his life, he wears it for Eagle Courts of Honor and District Dinners only.

In one word: YES. The expensive kit is made from Sterling (.925) Silver. The other kit...isn't.

Have you asked the PLC for their input? Let's start with making sure the kids have bought in and are available, rather than declaring it by fiat. What resources can your church provide? Pool (aquatic games), ranges (shooting sports), ??? I'd start with those two questions: Youth and resource availability...

Let's see... Bottom Line: If a group wants to do COPE at either of our Scout Camps, Council will take the money and arrange for COPE people to open the facility. Ditto the ranges. Ditto the climbing towers. If you want to do an offsite seminar, one of our camps will rent staff cabins and an office complex. At the other camp (closer in to town), if you want to have your wedding reception in the dining hall, we'll accommodate. Money talks.

I served as Training coordinator on my Troop committee. My big job was to encourage folks to attend training, and to find resources for training. Seven years agao, BSA didn't have as many resources deployed to support Scouter training of the Boy Scout program as they do now. I didn't need a special patch to do that. I could just be a Scouter and Member of Committee.

It's going to be a wait and see game. Normally, most influenza seasons are on their last legs for the year now. This one seems to be ramping up, though. If it shifts into high gear this summer, a bunch of summer programs for youth may get closed by health authorities. OTOH, it may go to ground until the fall... I do believe the instant news cycle is pushing the leading edge of panic, and that includes NPR. I think the best thing we can do is wash our hands, for now. As far as food service gear goes, BSA National Camp Standards for kitchens include operating temps for dishwashing. I've had a couple times where the paper plates and pre-packaged food came out because the hot water system in the kitchen failed.

Here's one I love, from Music MB: 2. Name the five general groups of musical instruments. Now, most of the musical world EagleSon has introduced me to lives in a world of this mapping: Brasswinds Woodwinds Strings Percussion ... or as the Disney cartoon goes ... Toot and a Whistle and a Pluck and a Boom. That includes DMA level professors of music. Of course, voice is ... Soprano Alto Tenor Bass There are some places which put keyboards in a fifth grouping, but piano and harpsichord are a cross between percussion and string, and organ is clearly a wind instrument. That's but one example. There are days when I'd sure love to know the author teams for MB pamphlets ... almost a Counselor's Guide level of material (how we decided on the content, and why it passes the "so what" test. But that's just me...

Yes, I have the MB pamphlets for the MBs I counsel. Yes, I've read them. No, by and large I don't use them in actual counseling. I have other materials I use to help me... some are even audio-visual: I still use "We the People" (the Preamble) from Scholastic Rock, as well as "I'm Just a Bill" when I work Citizenship in the Nation. They're accurate, and they're fun. Citizenship can be a dry subject, getting it to be fun matters.

Here is what we did: 1) Scoutmaster was available to be MC. 2) Unit (Troop/Crew) provided the less expensive Eagle Presentation kit and the BSA cotton Eagle necker, or the cost of same (family pays the rest) for the more expensive items. 3) We had several folks who assisted in coordinating letters of congratulation. Now, we did our ECOHs in groups, because these young men were HS classmates, and by and large had grown up from Cubbing together. The Parents Committee of the Whole - Found a facility - Let the boys seek out their Guest speakers - Developed the programs (one young man in EagleSon's group did the cover artwork for their group) - Shared costs of the reception Troopmaster was a Godsend, we were able to use it to help coordinate their histories in Scouting I do know other Troops which do fully prepackaged ECOHs, and the parents and boys fall in on the plan. I know one young man who did his in the Campfire Ring at Scout Camp, and his reception was at the dining hall. HTH. Congratulations are obviously in order.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Ahh, but JoeBob.... You obviously didn't see that cover photo of Soldiers Magazine back in early 2001... the one where 1LT Tom White was in country in RVN and wearing his tanker's black beret ... in 1967 or so. You remember Tom White, don't you? He was later COL Tom White, umpteenth Regimental Commander of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment on the GDP in the early 80s, and, at the time General Shinseki was the Chief, he was the Secretary of the Army... From what this old fart Artilleryman knows, the Infantry (meaning the 75th) stole the beret from the Armor!

FK, Has anyone thought about a skype teleconference between the folks your boy needs for his project review?