John-in-KC

If she has her head on the ball, she can serve 3 units, just not her own unit. Then, she can be an interested partner. It's not the best solution, but it is a solution.

All that said... there is nothing wrong with the UC (who is not otherwise a part of the Pack) attending Committee meetings. In fact, I submit that's when a UC gets a better chance to serve the adult leaders than being at a Pack or Den meeting. Now, yes, I do attend Pack and Den meetings, to observe the program in action. Let me say the real reason: I like to see 8-10 year olds having FUN. I have to admit I'm lucky. The Pack I serve is in good hands right now, with trained and caring leaders. They are taking full advantage of the program Cubbing brings to the table.

Agree with OGE. Start with a Pack T-shirt, and perhaps a Pack sweatshirt. There's nothing wrong with an activity or Class B uniform of blue jeans and a T-shirt. I would say, though, urge the kids to get good quality blue jeans, and to use them for school only on den meeting days. Start teaching a little about clean and neat. Yes, use thrift stores as a source of supply for T-shirts, also ask at your district roundtable if there are units which can donate from their uniform closets. Do help Moms and Dads by explaining where patches go. It's sorta funky seeing a kid with his Wolf patch on his right pocket (I tend to keep quiet on those, I'm happy he's attending and having fun).(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Those are the Vision stuff. At the very most, they are the Goals. As Scoutldr said, they're not SMART. Before anyone says anything else, regardless of what we volunteers do with our young people in the trenches, the simple fact is that National non-profits are not small business in any sense of the term. Good business management at the top end is as much stewardship as LNT is in the field, be it front or back country. AND... before anyone says anything else, if you've got a better methodology for corporate accountability, lay it out... don't simply gripe. To that end, given what RS has found so far, I would like to see the backgournder, vice the powerpoint executive summary. It's probably an inch thick for this many pieces of Vision/Goals. My thoughts. YIS

We're blessed to have two honor camping societies in our Council, the Order and the Tribe of Mic-o-Say. We're blessed to have a huge core of adults who love Scouting, period, and will do anything for the youth. Troops know that if a Scout needs to piggyback for whatever reason, one SM-SM call takes care of the preliminaries, then the youth makes his call to the SM and the SPL to fall in. We also have meaningful adult service projects at our OA reservation. Ranger in his day was a Chief of our Lodge. He is Vigil Honor from his youth. There is less and less token "weed-whipping" on induction weekends and more and more major labor. Adults who are Candidates are surveyed in advance on useful skills. Trust me, Ranger has access to heavy dump trucks and earthmoving gear with one phone call if he needs/desires it. We've had adult Candidates trench, conduit and lay fiber. We've had adult Candidates evaluate a foundation needing rework, make a recommendation on technique, and prep the project for further execution. That's our secret.

I have to agree with what Crew21Adv said. Our Lodge makes special efforts to have good food that kids love during induction weekends. Fall Fellowship always includes steak dinner off the grill (Grilled chicken too). Fellowship has lots of FUN things, to include a late night at the dining hall. We're trying to inculcate the lifetime of service ethic into the youth. It goes lots better when there are carrots for the work, and very few sticks. Eventually, the carrot (for us) becomes that huge smile on a boys' face!

First, who are you relative to the Scout? The only correct person to be dealing with this matter is the Scoutmaster. Now, if there is a Trustworthy (Scout Law or values method) issue, then the Scoutmaster needs to make two phone calls: One is to the MBC concerned. The two of them need to have a talk about whatever requirement it was and how/why it was not completed. This is where it gets dicey. Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures 333088 says once the MBC signs off, the merit badge is complete. Whoever has the evidence of the integrity problem needs to have ironclad, irrefutable stuff. If the MBC agrees, it's a simple matter for him to show up at a Troop meeting and for him and the SM to have a Scoutmaster's Conference with the Scout in question. Hopefully, he'll do the right thing. Now, if the MBC does not agree, things are dicier. Mr Scoutmaster needs to call the District Advancement Chairman and discuss the matter of Mr XYZ, Merit Badge Counselor. It may be that Mr XYZ needs to be thanked for his years of service to Scouting and released from service as an MBC. Finally, if an Advancement Report has already gone to the Registrar, well, you're beyond my expertise level. My gut tells me to have a friendly sit-down with your Unit Commissioner and the DAC at an early date.

CP, From what I've seen, the swimsuit issue of SI is juicier than most editions of Maxim. Thanks for reinforcing my point. What is inappropriate for Scouts may be close to the line and not across it, or may be across the line.

SA, My only comment is this is on video, courtesy of one of the accused. It's hard to refute eyewitness evidence. I agree with B. There's a right way to talk about race. It's called a Scoutmaster's Conference. Now, this one can be a true heart to heart, but it might even has Mr SM acting a little excited to get his point across. Duct Tape? Being made to drink urine? That's over the line. I'll wait to see the results of the trial, but I'm not going to be surprised at what the jury brings back ... or what they plead to.

1) A month. Mr Scott, there's something wrong with your internal communications. That information should have gotten to you much sooner. 2) Where were the parents? Where was A parent? Pack meetings are times of recognition. They should have been there. If you look at the Methods of Cub Scouting, one of them is the family. Mom and Dad should have been the first line of defense here. 3) Who was looking at the kids as gathering time continued? This is June, so I presume this incident was in May. Even way up north toward the Canadian border, it's not five layers of clothes weather in May. How did this Cub get this magazine into the meeting room in the first place? 4) Porn. That's a term that's been used a tad liberally in recent days. What exactly are we talking? I'm not saying relative morality, but there is truly hard core porn. There is written erotica. There is Playboy. All bring an immediate reaction (this is your only warning, do not bring this stuff to any Scouting event again...ever), but if the Cub had harder stuff, there may be need to talk not with the family, but with the SE ... by the parent bringing the accusation. In my neck of the woods, underage possession can trigger mandatory reporters doing what they must. Do the right thing. Ask the right questions. Ask for help from your Commissioners, COR, and professionals. You'll figure out what right should be. I trust you for that.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I find it unique that the young men are named. That's unusual from my little experience with juvenile justice. Have to wonder what that means about how they've been charged? Too bad "America's Dumbest Criminals" isn't on the air anymore. This incident would make it. What I really hope is that the victim gets plenty of support from his unit leadership and his District in the coming months. Taking what he said as fully true, we (as in the community of Scouting) owes him some help in getting over this. It's our moral duty.

Hey. What about for auto mechanics, adding in a new requirement of: Remove the engine from the chassis. On a test stand, disassemble it to the block. Use micrometers and mic tape to evaluate tolerances. Insert cylinder sleeves and hone as needed. Reassemble using new wear parts. Test the engine on the test stand, then reinstall to the vehicle... Cue the Mamas and the Papas... Stars shining bright above you night breezes seem to whisper I love you Birds singin' in the sycamore tree Dream a little dream of me. Say "nighty night" and kiss me just hold me tight and tell me you'll miss me. While I'm alone and blue as can be Dream a little dream of me. Stars fading but I linger on dear still craving your kiss I'm longing to linger til dawn dear Just saying this: Sweet dreams til sun beams find you sweet dreams that leave our worries behind you. But in your dreams whatever they be dream a little dream of me. Stars fading but I linger on dear still craving your kiss. I'm longing to linger til dawn dear just saying this: Sweet dreams til sun beams find you sweet dreams that leave our worries behind you. But in your dreams whatever they be dream a little dream of me. Sweet dreams til sun beams find you sweet dreams that leave our worries behind you. But in your dreams whatever they be dream a little dream of me. Sweet dreams til sun beams find you sweet dreams that leave our worries behind you. But in your dreams whatever they be dream a little dream of me.

Given what scoutldr noticed, it's simply put, The Committee Chair tells him "Sir, physical contact with youth crosses lines in Youth Protection. It's not acceptable. Drinking at Scout events is not acceptable. You will not have my support for any registered leadership position in this Troop. Good Day." If necessary, the COR can back it up with "Sir, the things you do concern us: Swearing, drinking, and physically handling youth. You are not permitted to attend the Troops' outings, nor are you permitted inside meetings other than Courts of Honor. If you choose not to associate your son with our organization and Troop, we will arrange to transfer his records. Good Day."

You don't mention who you are in the unit. That matters a little bit in terms of who does what to whom. If you are an ASM, you work for and report to the SM, and you owe him loyalty. If you are an ASM, I recommend you do an adult leader app to move yourself to the Committee. I agree with Lisa: The bottom line is easing this person out as SM with all due speed. The right actors are the Troop Committee Chairman and the Chartered Organization Representative. - The Chairman's role is to investigate the facts of the matter and report his findings to the COR. The Chairman may want to enlist the aid of your Unit Commissioner, an experienced Scouter and a friend of the Troop. - The COR, who represents the interests of your Chartered Partner (the church, club, or business that sponsors your Troop) is the one who notifies the SM of his removal, and also notifies the Council to remove him from association with your unit. The Committee Chair will need dates, what happened, and who observed it. Those folks who report incidents need to understand the COR might ask to visit with them. If your Committee Chair won't support this, then a delegation of Scouters and parents may approach the COR directly, but understand something very clearly: One of you will most likely be asked to step up to the plate. Without someone to replace Mr Scoutmaster, this is an exercise in wasting time. That's a commitment of several years to training, to service, and to mentorship of the youth. Good hunting. Let us know how this turns out.

Ken, To answer your questions on foods: If you google, you can find dehydrated meats. There are cheeses (Romano, Parmesan) which can live at room temp until used. Dehydrated milk was around 40+years ago. Truth be told, going with a somewhat vegetarian menu (more beans, less meat) on the trail will give you all but two of the essential amino acids of protein as I recall. It also helps keep you regular.

Gern, Wish I could tell you. BTW, Beavah's idea (push Family Life stuff to Webelos, keep 3 Citizenships, and use the freed-up slot for Cooking on the Eagle list) is a really good idea. Too bad he's not the National Advancement Chairman. Sigh.

No, no, no, a thousand times, no. Buy the good stuff, that is suitable for backpacking. Teach the youth about proper care, so they can in turn teach future youth. It can then be used to support both base camp and trail operations. They'll learn more about cooking by learning to make meals from a host of dehydrated foods (including ... dried BEANS) along with fresh ingredient foods than they will by opening cans of beenieweenies. Yes, I used Patrol boxes when I was a Scout. We'd use them about half the year, and the portion of the Troop that went to LT camp (vice a weeklong backpack) used them there, since the 60s were in the era of units drawing rations and cooking meals, vice dining halls. The biggest single advantage of the patrol box is it does help teach cooking as a skill, by organizing gear into a mini-kitchen. Those of us who went on the trail, well, because we hiked in the Sierra Nevada, we carried more than a couple pressure cookers. If I remember correctly, the old adage for ration planning using fully dehydrated meals was 1 1/2 lbs of food per Scout per day. On a 7 day trip, that means not quite 11 lbs of rations, plus a share of the gear.

My biggest thought is "Who will provide the youth leadership?" Your five Tenderfeet have two particular challenges: - You only have one Patrol. - You do not have any youth who can be role models, guides, and trainers. I've seen minimalist start-ups. The problem is there ends up being an awful lot of (regrettably necessary) adult support of the youth, and the youth members may not get the full benefit. Beyond that, it's a long term commitment for you. Three years? That's only the beginning. A start-up, based around a somewhat charismatic Scoutmaster, has a pretty big risk of failing 5 years downstream, when he's out of the program.

Going with what Eagle 92 said... Scoutmasters Handbook for you and your ASMs. Patrol Leader's Handbook for each of the PLs. Senior Patrol Leader's Handbook for your SPL. JUNIOR LEADER TRAINING, vice Troop Leader Training. This will require some digging. JLT helps reinforce skills the youth need, as well as teaching them leadership. Aluminum Foil. Amazing the things you can cook in foil, and then pack the foil out!

Invest in good gear. Talk to folks at REI and Camp-Mor and other such places about trade-offs between weight, durability and cost. Philmont, annually, sells off used trail tents. They're reputed very servicable for normal camping, just no longer fit to take on the trail year-in and year-out. I have a lightweight backpacking tent. Wonderful thing. It does require a certain amount of TLC, rather a bit more than an old-fashioned canvas tent would.

Kudu, Thank you for hijacking this thread, and hijacking several other threads in recent weeks. Instead of rationally sharing your POV on training in the Adult Leader forum, you've resorted to the tactic of a pedant, and use a loud, long whine in more than a few threads where useful information or dialogue was occurring. Like Mr 212, you have worn out your welcome with me. You fail to show friendliness and courtesy by voicing your agenda in places where frankly it does not belong. IMO, I'd appreciate you more when you share what you've learned and cataloged, than when you act the pedant. For now, as Anne Robinson used to say on TV: You, Sir, are the WEAKEST LINK. Good-bye.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

You see, I was a Scout in the 60s/early 70s, before the !@#$%^ skill awards. Tenderfoot was some basics. Second Class concentrated on hiking (in fact, I had to do 3 5 milers to qualify!) First Class concentrated on camping skills. You advanced sequentially. None of this sign off on a First Class requirement whilst a Scout. I'm not saying they have to change, I'm reporting how it was.

As I recall, Cit in Community and Cit in Nation were indeed combined back in my youth (well it might have been Cit in World). I'd not mind seeing C&N merged into a BIG merit badge. It would sure take it out of the MB Mill category As most here know, I've been an advocate of Cooking returning to the Eagle list since I joined this board. Actually, I'd like to see T-2-1, in terms of skills, approach the difficulty that it had in the 1959 and 1965 manuals. PS: Thanks for identifying sources of your info, vice a certain poster who was there last year, and didn't give context to his posts... playing STUMP THE CHUMP with us.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

What is more important, and the reason I posted, is that PRAY is very much in the business of providing curriculum support to protestant Christians. I do have to wonder, since they serve as a clearinghouse for several non-Christian programs, what they are doing there?

It was far more fun being on the OP for a week, calling in fires, than it was giving that talk.