John-in-KC

1) Like Rythos said, coordinate with your State/County Health Department. Different rules for different places. 2) Like baschram645 said, pig farms smell. You're going to want this program area in the prevalent downwind! 3) Understand the slaughter will not be on property. This is food for public consumption, and the slaughter will have to be in an approved facility. 4) IIRC, "hog slop" feed is one of the causal factors of trichinosis. If you do this, cook the pork well done by an internal meat thermometer. I suspect Eamonn can give us the correct temp. I won't even guess.

Returning completely to the subject at hand, and to Barry's request, there was one other point I wanted to make: - Mr/Ms Counselor, you're responsible for knowing the requirement set your youth will start under. Currency in requirements is your responsibility. TRUE, and sad story: Last fall I was working an MB Day. I do Citizenship in the World. IF the kids have done my pre-requisites, they will leave the day with a completed MB. I hate to say this, but in a way I'm lucky, only about half the kids have the front-end work done. That means it's really a support/coaching session for them. Anyway. The support materials clearly state which edition of the MB Pam I use. One poor young soul came in, having done his pre-reqs against an older pamphlet (..."but it's what we have in the Troop Library."...) I asked him about the requirements, and he could not address them. I didn't sign off. His SM came to me all irate. "He'd done the work." I showed him the materials from the initial packet, which he got, and the materials sent to him in the "you're set to go packet." Both clearly showed the date of the pamphlet. I simply asked him: "When did your Troop Librarian last review the contents to assure your Library was current? My responsibility is to counsel against what BSA says is current material, not against the content of your Troop Library box." He walked away rather deflated. Sigh. OBJECT LESSON: Units need to, once a year, check Troop Libraries against BSA program materials.

eisely, Agree with what you say, but would you accept substitution of "and as a last resort, intervention or removal" vice "possibly timely removal"??? Intervention, to include removal should be our last resort. We adults need to be prepared to help that Scout learn from failure. If not, we've suffered a failure

Bringing this dead horse back for another beating It's time to sing the song again! DING DONG THE BERET IS DEAD!!! THE BERET IS DEAD!!! THE BERET IS DEAD!!!

Fred, you wrote: The Lodge is allowing us to redo our election because we apparently had some ineligible Scouts cast votes (they were visiting the troop and I guess everyone assumed they were recent crossovers). I am really scratching my head at how the SPL and SM did not have control and accountability of their youth members vice the Webelos or visiting Scouts. That's first a unit function to know who should be a voter. I think this whole mess should be turned into one or more Scoutmaster's minutes...

Skill awards were part of the 70s 'relevancy' gig. I can tell you that being a youth member from 1968 to 1973 or so, they weren't there for us. I was glad I earned my T-2-1 requirements They belong with the red berets... GONE!

Barry asked in part, So I guess you explain under the Gate Keeper part that there should be a scoutmaster signature when they first see the scout's card? Absolutely. While it's on the BSA website, I believe that part of the MB process is enshrined in Requirements #33215. Given that the Scoutmaster is mentor as part of his role as the program guy for the troop: Helping Scouts find Counselors who are a "fit" is a task the SM should relish.

I'm not BW, but I am a District MB Counselor Trainer now, thanks to my DAC. Here are the tools in my toolbox: Expendables - Adult Leader App (1 per) - MB Counselor App (1 per) - Application for Merit Badge, No. 34124 (1 per as a sample) - Pens Texts: - Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 (Current year) - BSA Requirements #33215 (Current Year) - Guide for Merit Badge Counseling, No. 34532 - Merit Badge Counselor Instructors Guide #18-125 (note, the pdf download of this is down at the moment) - Boy Scout Handbook, No. 33105 - Sample MB pamphlets - Scoutmaster HB, No 33009 WEBSITES - BSA Website, MB Requirements: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx - BSA Website, Guide to MB Counseling: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/guideformeritbadgecounselors.aspx - US Scouting Service Project website: http://usscouts.org/meritbadges.asp (excellent analytical product) My key points to my training audience: 1) You self-select to counsel, based on subjects you have a competency in 2) The Scoutmaster is the Gatekeeper. 3) Follow YP guidelines!! 4) Do not add to, do not take from. You may account for "ages and stages" in doing that. If it says "write a report" (and IIRC Forestry still does), I expect something for an 11 year old, and I usually expect something else from a 17 year old. 5) No time limit to complete a MB. 6) Scout starts under requirements of Date X. He may complete under those requirements. 7) The Scout is there as much for "Adult Association" as he is for "Advancement." 8) Thank you!!! for volunteering.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Way to go!!! I like his enthusiasm, I like that you're focusing him to the journey, not the instant gratification. I think he probably can do one outdoor (hiking) and one indoor (dentistry) concurrently. As he shows he can manage the workload, let his pack get a bit heavier. I know a lot of troops who could use your for a SM.

The bottom line, Mr Scoutmaster, is you are responsible for the mentorship of the youth. Period. Your first mentoring subject, and the one who should get an awful lot of your time, in program and out, is your Senior Patrol Leader. If he's not learned what right looks like in outdoor skills, in training others, in being able to coach other, he cannot deliver expectations on the front end, keep a weather eye on performance during tenure, and follow-up at the end so the actual "Scout in the bucket" can assimilate what he's learned. If you or your SPL/ASPL's are not mentoring the Scout before he decides to step up to the plate for a position... look first to yourself. How will he know what right looks like if someone has not told him? If he's taking the initiative to step up to the plate, he deserves to have a clue about what's expected of him. FScouter's right, there's a tremendous amount of resources already available for Scouts from BSA: Patrol Leaders Handbook being the first of all. If you and your SPL/ASPLs are not directing, encouraging, and coaching the Scout during his tenure ... look first to yourself. How will your Scout know he's left or right of the azimuth line if someone isn't telling him? If you've not got an intervention plan thought through, at least in general terms, to help the SPL/ASPLs and yourself turn around a failure going to happen ... look first to yourself. You and your SPL should be talking, regularly, perhaps even weekly (albeit away from the meeting place) about each Patrol, their strengths/weaknesses, and the Troop positions... are things getting done (not as they should be, but as the youth in the position can) to be ready for the next campout, cleaning session, whatever. BTW, Mr Scoutmaster, do you know that the Scouts parents are giving him full support as enters upon and does his POR? If Mom and Dad insist Billy be at [ insert other event here ] even though there's a Troop "clean the gear" workday, are they not setting him up for failure? Do they understand that? Finally, Mr Scoutmaster, if nothing is working, do you and your SPL have a way to remove a Scout from his POR, give him a SM conference, and guide him to understanding that the time served will not cut it for advancement? Even though you are the best mentor ever, there are going to be some who just don't get it, and they need the failure to learn. How those Scouts process the failure so that it is a learning event will matter, and reflects on your mentorship. My thoughts from a few mornings of working with people to get jobs done, in Scouting and out.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Remember when the Boy Scout Handbook was about giving information to the kids, and not being a statement in and of itself? Someone needs to go back and look at the 1958 or 1965 Edition one more time before they release this on the world. Sheesh.

I'm with Lisa and emb. This is a bad idea. If your District decides to go through with it, influence your PLC to be someplace else that weekend. I do not care if we are talking Music, Railroading, or Cit in Nation: Unless you short-cycle the MB, you cannot get there from here in a weekend. PERIOD. Now, setting stations which explicitly support a task from a MB (ie, at this station you will do the BSA Swim Test, which is Swimming MB REquirement X)? Yeah. The whole MB? NWIH.

Another thread hijacked. Sigh. Lisa, I do agree with you. Scouting has room and need for both families of courses. People do not know/understand the outdoors anymore. There's plenty of room for training on outdoor cooking, on basic camping, backpacking, you name it. IOLS skims the surface at great speed. We also have many adults who do not know how to work with other adults or to work with youth. We cannot support discovery learning for our youth program members if we don't have a clue about what right should look like. At the end of the day, that really is the educational method B-P wanted us to use, in modern terms: Discovery learning.

Points of comparison: Music Camp, not the most expensive, not the least: $375 a week base. Private lessons and the concert CDs were tack-ons. Future Astronaut Training Program at Kansas Cosmosphere: $695 for 1st year program (7-10 graders) 2d year program $795 3d year program, including trip to Johnson Space Center, Houston... $895. Those are real camps EagleSon attended before college, in addition to Scout Camp. Costs are for 2009 season.

Joining in with Lisa, Eagle92, and Rick!

Eamonn, You won't, but what about the big foundations that give us charitable bucks for some of the really big project? They're looking for the write-offs. When Jim Terry was the SE here in KC, he and the corporate board type volunteers on our exec board worked hard to get the Mabee Foundation, Capital Federal Savings, and others to philanthropically donate. They were a big part of recapitalizing our Reservations. If we become a for-profit, does that money go away?

Paging the Beavah, or Vicki, or Ed in his "banker suit" or even nldScout in his judicial role .... If Scouting, to the membership (youth/adult) was made fully fee-based... vice some fees for events, but much of what's done is by donation... How does that impact the National Council and the Local Councils as "non-profits?" How does the non-profit status affect our ability (for those of us who can make charitable donations) to write off what we voluntarily give, vice must pay as a fee???

My point is not registered=active. It's a convenient example. My point is, as Brent and Beavah have both said: It appears the National Council, when asked for guidance beyond what is in - the Rules, Regulations, and/or Bylaws of the BSA OR - existing program documents ... has a mindset of taking the path of least resistance, and the path of lowering the risk to the BSA the Corporation. I see that in the YP training online, where the example is non-Scouter parents can see their own sons' Ordeal ceremony (never mind they haven't invested the sweat equity to be invited into the Order themselves). National H&S played the "no secret societies" card on that one. I see that mindset in the clause in ACP&P that units have no right of appeal. I see it in the current Scouting Magazine, where many SM/ASM wrote in on how they prioritize Scouting/athletics/extra-curricular elements in academics ... in favor of the athletics or the school activity. We need to be careful of the change we ask for from the National Council and the various committees of volunteers and Professionals. Ed will get his uniform and inflexible policy he wants, I guarantee it ... and it will water down the program to the point where it's not worth having. Yes, I don't like how Rick uses his Kudu horn to hijack every thread ... but he is making a point. BTW, look at all the big non-profit corporations out there ... including the Red Cross, AHA, and on and on. You'll see similar traits of risk avoidance in all of them. Beavah and nldScout sorry to say this, Counselor/Your Honor, but the risk management attorneys are in charge of the program. My thoughts(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Have you guys read p 24 of ACP&P? The text box? We have a definition in a program policy document. Text box, lower left corner: A Scou will be considered "active" in his unit if he is 1. Registered in his unit (registration fees are current) 2. Not dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons 3. Engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (informed of unit activities through Scoutmaster conference or personal contact, etc.) That wasn't in the pre-2007 editions of ACP&P. We whined, and we got something rammed down our throats. So I say again: Be careful of what you ask the National Council for. You just might get it

And hence the problem. If the DAC's stuck to the requirements, there wouldn't be this problem. There is too much open to interpretation. If National would spell out EXACTLY what was required, a lot of these problems would go away! Be careful of what you ask for. You might get it. That's how we got the current definition of "Active."

DeanRx, Everything you just voiced in your most recent post is valid. Ask your COR to voice those concerns to your DE. The Chartered Partner is the agency to whom the Local Council owes fiscal transparency: The are the licensee of record of your Scouting program.

Have you taken the latest edition of the online YP program yet? Mom and Dad, non-Scouters, want to see their sons' Ordeal. Chapter Adviser says "it's supposed to be for the kids." National Safety folks make a big too-doo about that being the wrong answer, and that Mom and Dad are to be welcomed... that there are no secret societies in Scouting. Gotta love contradicting guidance. Maybe the Order really isn't what it used to be...

I'm 52 now. When I was 13, George I was curious! Even now, I love data-mining. When I think of many young people I know, they like data-mining too.

One follow-on comment, wolfmama: I work on a Post. That should tell you the Service I've been a part of. There are experienced Scouters at your Post, Camp, Station, Base, Arsenal, or Depot They should be working with the DAC to find folks who are interested in the various MBs, and helping the DAC recruit them as MB Counselors. My thoughts as a ROF, at least.

Guarded? What a crock of excrement. A few years back, if you had any idea at all the OA Brotherhood existed, you could google "Brotherhood questionaire" and get 15-20 hits from Lodges that had uploaded the bin item as a pdf. In fact, I was still able to get a couple questionaires a few minutes ago. Meanwhile, the Brotherhood Hike is prescribed in Chapter 7 of the Guide to Inductions, and its format is documented in Appendix 15.