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Everything posted by HICO_Eagle

  1. AvidSM said "To me, the Wood Badge beads are a symbol of commitment to scouting." I'll let my 23 years of adult Scouting, 5 years of Boy Scouting and 3 years of Cub Scouting speak to my commitment to Scouting thank you very much. I don't need beads and I certainly don't need another overblown management course to demonstrate that. The bottom line for me is that I would take the old original Wood Badge course in a heartbeat. I'm not wasting 2 hours much less 2 weekends on the kind of garbage I've seen posted on the WB21C program. Taking SMF was bad enough but at least it didn't proclaim itself to be a graduate level course while teaching grade school pablum.
  2. Have been away from these forums for a while but just saw this thread. I disagree with a couple of Scout24's ideas: 1. BSA's policy regarding homosexuals or atheists isn't even in the top ten reasons I hear for boys who drop out or never get involved in Scouting. Most boys in my experience drop out or don't join because 1) it's work, 2) they're more interested in soccer or football or ..., 3) they've been culturally brainwashed into thinking Scouting is just for geeks. Most don't have any idea what's in the program. For that matter, the DoD survey not only got an insignificant minority of surveys returned but the majority were NOT in favor of repealing DADT, the majority of returns said it wouldn't matter if DADT was repealed. 2. Changing the uniform to BDUs just feeds the propaganda mill and really isn't necessary. We didn't wear our uniforms to school 30 years ago either (see aforementioned point about cultural brainwashing). I don't like the Centennial uniform but at least it's comfortable and functional. On the other hand, I agree wholeheartedly that National just doesn't get it. Most of the changes I've seen in the program over the past 20+ years have not (IMNSHO) been positive. Put the outing back in Scouting and make people aware of that -- Scouting should be in the midst of a Renaissance with today's emphasis on the outdoors but we're letting political activists define us in the public perception. "Seven pillars, 26 objectives and 104 specific goals" smacks of people who have been attending too many management seminars from professional educators and consultants instead of actually leading people (including boys) or working with the program.
  3. I like your drill JoeBob. I guess your experience runs counter to my own experience with competitive shooters but I haven't been around younger competitive shooters (except at USPSA matches) in years so perhaps it has to do with video games or movies or some such nonsense. In any event, I firmly believe children are generally safer when they grow up with safety rules rather than have something locked away as some big mystery, whether it's power tools, wine/beer or firearms.
  4. Adult antics are precisely why I generally work at the unit level. Too many ego trips and political games when you pull a bunch of adults in the room to plan and execute district or council level activities. Congratulations to those of you who took WB and got something from it; I still haven't heard anything that sounds like it would be a productive use of my time.
  5. "Teaching kids not related to yeh is different than teaching your own son. Yeh don't know 'em as well, can't anticipate them as easily, they don't know, trust, and obey you as well, don't understand what you're saying as easily. Other boys will do things your son never would, and your son can surprise you when he's around other boys." Sorry but I disagree here. This is a function of the instructor, not the father/son relationship. I've seen plenty of fathers who seem to do better teaching other boys than their sons. I was a registered rifle merit badge counselor long before I was NRA-certified and the NRA certification honestly didn't help me with my teaching or knowledge. I took the course precisely because Council requires it now, just as I follow the G2SS to avoid problems with Council (not the insurance). Personally, I'm not a big fan of the G2SS but they don't ask me to like it, just follow it.
  6. Suppose for a moment a troop wished to schedule a dance for next Friday night. (I'll wait for the air to return to the room, that was quite a gasp!) So what if the boys decide to invite the neighborhood Girl Scout troop over for an evening of sharing scouting and having some music play in the background? Just for the record, my troop, another troop and a couple Girl Scout units scheduled an interScout dance back in ... 1980? 1981? It wasn't the end of the world. Some of us even made Eagle a year or two later.
  7. Oh, we DO read the Good Book. The passage you cite talks about how the believers lived and supported the apostles, a history of their life together just as Acts also records how Saul approved of Stephen's death, began to destroy the church and threw men and women in prison. On the other hand, Jesus' own parable of the Ten Virgins tells us to make ready ourselves rather than depend on others and of course the parable of the Talents is frequently cited as an injunction to be productive with what you have (Matthew 25). 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 says Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody. and 2 Thessalonians 3:6-10 says In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." As I said before, I don't think "a Scout pays his own way" needs to mean a Scout doesn't receive or accept help. To me it means the Scout does what he can to take care of himself. Similarly, Christian love and generousity do not equate to Marxist redistribution or dependency. As far as the Jamboree trip went, there were a number of factors why it was a TC decision rather than PLC, primarily because the Scouts had not raised the funds they needed to make it their decision. About half worked hard and earned the funds to go to summer camp (and then some -- but not enough to do the Jamboree), the others didn't or decided to put their money toward tuition (we graduated 4 Eagles this spring). It was hardly unfortunate, it was a lesson in responsibility.
  8. "Da Christian notion is that each should give according to his ability and take according to his need, eh?" Sorry, that's the Marxist notion, not the Christian notion. "If they can't afford it and they don't have the time to work towards it, why would they sign up for it in the first place?" Exactly what our troop did -- or rather, didn't do. We had plans and aspirations to visit the Jamboree and tour the historical sites in DC and Philadelphia but the Troop Committee decided to go to standard summer camp instead due to the economic crunch and problems many parents had. Did we miss a historic and memorable occasion? I'm sure we did but the TC and parents chose to face economic realities.
  9. "Offers to trade garrison caps were almost as prevalent as offers to trade patches at Jambo. The number of times I heard: "I sure wish they'd bring back that old green uniform!" was too numerous to count. (And most of those comments were NOT from adults!) " But, but ... National told us the BOYS wanted these new fancy expensive baggy looking uniforms including the change from traditional white-on-red to green-on-khaki numerals and new shoulder loops! (Guess I've just been around the wrong boys since changing the troop numerals colors is something I've NEVER heard in over 25 years of Scouting.)
  10. "National will be getting a new module for ScoutNet in 2011 called the Membership and Training Module from an outside vendor that promises to simplify everything for everybody. This will need to be in place and working prior to implementing required training." Does anyone else find it the least bit ironic (and aggravating) that an organization with a mission (and proven ability) to train leaders needs to go to an outside vendor to implement "required training"? How much of this stuff is a self-licking ice cream cone?
  11. I'm glad to hear a rewrite is in the works. I hope they will improve things the same way the 12th edition Scout Handbook improved on that wretched 11th edition. Take us back to the future -- get rid of the silly "manager development" nonsense and return Wood Badge to what it was.
  12. allangr2, I concur with dropping the troop formally to a single patrol until you get numbers back up. It's rather silly to have a SPL, ASPL, 2 PLs, 2 APLs and 2 patrol members (I've done it as a Scout but it's still silly). I think the question of whether a troop needs a SPL is the wrong question. Do your boys need the experience of being an SPL? In my experience, the removal from a single patrol into a coordinating leadership function is new to them and something most Scouts can and do learn from. Learning to monitor and delegate (as opposed to just pass off work) is one of the hardest leadership roles to learn -- especially for the natural leaders who are naturally inclined to jump in and work the problem(s) directly.
  13. I'll disagree with Beavah to this extent: I don't think "A Scout pays his own way" has to mean the Scout pays 100%. The point -- to me -- is that the Scout IS getting skin in the game with sweat equity if nothing else. Consequently, I don't see that the message is disjointed or that it's a bad lesson for the boys. You can instill the values in the boys of BOTH working toward their goals AND helping others.
  14. I grew up with patrol cooking and was introduced to dining halls when I became an adult Scouter. For what it's worth, I find the dining hall superior at summer camp. A troop can always exercise patrol cooking on its own activities but the dining hall is frequently a much more efficient means of feeding the Scouts and spreading campwide information. Troops also have the opportunity to learn how to handle larger events if you use the mess hall operation as a teaching experience. My troop had 8 core members at one time and I think 5 (maybe 6) of us made Eagle. I think our exercise of the patrol method -- including planning and going on campouts on our own -- had more to do with that than how we got our food at summer camp. Stosh's quote of a camp with 3 MB sessions for a mess hall operation and 5 MB sessions for patrol cooking is quite the opposite of my experience at Camps Pupukea in Hawaii, Alexander in Colorado, Bowman and Rock Enon in Virginia and a couple others. I wasn't too impressed with Bowman (or Goshen at all) but Alexander and Rock Enon had very solid programs and mess hall operations with our boys earning 4-5 MBs each. For those of you extolling the virtues of patrol cooking at summer camp -- why is this such a novel experience for your youth? Why aren't they getting those experiences and benefits from your normal activities?
  15. "Sure, go ahead and remove the SPL from his post. As soon as you do so, please turn around and tell the committee that you are resigning as Scoutmaster. Why? Because you failed - miserably. As much as you think the Troop needs a new SPL, it needs a new Scoutmaster. The SPL not wanting to talk to you, after an hour of time off by himself should be a big red flag that YOU are a big part of the problem." I'm going to disagree with this big time. The boy made violent threats; that's a reflection of the boy, not the SM. EagerLeader seems to be trying to consider all options and get feedback before taking action -- that's the sign of a pretty good leader. I've got a couple boys in my current troop that have anger management/emotional outburst issues. They both also have tendencies to wander or storm off. It's a situation we're concerned about and monitoring; they need the program but we cannot allow them to endanger other scouts or adults if it comes to that (their father is well aware of their problems). EagerLeader's SPL may not be quite that bad (I can't see any of the boys in our troop electing our two problem children as SPL although that could change with time) but it's clear he has a problem that isn't necessarily related to the SM's performance.
  16. I guess I'm with Kudu on most of his thoughts and I like a lot of the ideas on curriculum here. I will happily take courses that enhance my skills and ability to help my boys. Wood Badge doesn't do a darned thing for me (and the more I hear about it, the less I like it). IOLS sounds great for anyone who didn't actually live through the program but it's redundant and useless for a lot of people. Yes, more and more people involved in Scouting at the adult level need it but it seems more and more like a lot of decisions at Council and National levels are being driven by people who weren't Scouts and don't seem to have much of a clue about Scouting. I just about gag everytime I see the signs up, "Every Scout deserved a trained leader." No, every Scout deserves a COMPETENT leader. Training does not equal competence. Never has, never will -- but the professional educators and "leadership developers" don't understand that any more than Neville Chamberlain understood treaties don't equal peace. Let's keep the Scout skills in Scouting.
  17. "The WS MB probably doesn't specifically mention fish as something to stay away from because it's probably the safest thing to catch and eat in the wild, but again the calories gained for calories spent makes it a less than ideal strategy." My first reaction is ... absolute nonsense. If your contention were true, we never would have developed hunting and fishing skills. I don't exactly see a lot of calories burned by most fishermen (fly fishermen are another breed altogether). My second reaction is ... it of course depends on your skills. I'm not a very good fisherman so you'd probably be right in my case but there are others who can more than recoup their caloric investment in fishing (and hunting/trapping). The main point is that WS has changed to where you are unlikely to need to worry about being lost for weeks, most of us have at least 3 days of body fat on us if necessary so the prime need is potable water but let's not throw out nonsense like this.
  18. Boy, I wish we had done something like this when I took WS as a Scout ...
  19. hotair36 said: "NO, it is not just a rehash of past versions of train the trainer." I'm sorry but yes it is. I found nothing new or innovative in EDGE, just a restatement of common sense training practices under a flashy acronym. It was a full day that repeated the training I got as a Boy Scout, in college, USAF active duty, etc. I am REALLY sick of adding all this mandatory training that doesn't really add anything new. Encourage it for those who don't have a background yes but making it mandatory ... bleah! I don't have any empirical studies to prove it but I think adding all this time wasting garbage is counterproductive and drives away people who would otherwise be willing to participate more fully or take SOME training if they didn't have to get it all.
  20. Personally, I'd much rather be the oldest than the youngest but I won't judge someone who dares to challenge their limits as long as they are prepared to pay the consequences. On the other hand, I think her parents' judgment leaves something to be desired ...
  21. The city may be waiting for reimbursement but it WILL be reimbursed. Consider the $19K reimbursement for services rendered that will then be used to ensure Scouts are able to do good deeds for those who AREN'T getting paid (albeit tardily).
  22. My troop has lowered the expectation of what "Class A" meant to simply wearing a Class A shirt but we're starting to rejuvenate the past practice of "full uniform" means a full uniform (merit badge sash and OA sashes being optional accoutrements). I don't think we'd cancel the BOR just because the Scout showed up in jeans instead of Scout pants but the board would probably say it reflected on his Scout spirit and readiness to pursue the next rank. He could have torn a seam on his Scout pants, spilled a drink or have another valid excuse. On the other hand, this is the SPL. There's a big difference between a new Tenderfoot going for Second Class and the SPL trying to get Life. Presumably he's setting the example for the rest of the troop and you're saying he couldn't be bothered to wear the proper rank insignia or position patch? If I'd been the TCC, I'd have asked the SM why he thought the young man was demonstrating Scout spirit -- a good explanation would get a head nod and pass for the Scout, no explanation or a poor one would result in a reschedule and some discussion at committee.
  23. It may be coincidental but I find it interesting the new clarification of what "active" means (see other thread) came out after this mess was supposed to be sorted out on mdsummer45's appeal. In any event, her son may or may not deserve the Eagle award -- I don't think any of the rest of us know enough about the case to say either way -- but there's really no reason to be calling this a hoax.
  24. I'm with Kahuna. I don't cotton to their particular religious beliefs or how their church is run but have never had any problems with the Mormons I've known. On the whole, a very nice group of people that I'd welcome over San Francisco-style radicals any day of the week.
  25. I think what's goin' on here is that yeh neither understand the science nor the way politics and lobbying is done. So yeh can't make good judgments about the science, and yeh can't recognize when you're lookin' at a PR/lobbying effort by a special interest. I actually DO understand the science and problems with the theories and data analysis as well as the way Mann, CRU, Gore et al have been misusing it for politics and lobbying efforts but feel free to continue thinking that if it makes you feel better. Having you claim I can't make good judgments about the science while you're falling for a 20 year PR and lobbying campaign by a special interest is as comical as Gore and company claiming the likes of Freeman Dyson, Jerry Pournelle, Fred Singer, etc. are "anti-science" and gives me a good healthy laugh.
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