HICO_Eagle

Scoutfish, I contend it's relatively easy to decide if the words mean anything to the Scout. Does the Scout truly attempt to live by them? Some Scouts have an harder time than others for purely biological or physiological conditions but there aren't that many that genuinely suffer from these conditions. In general, you can tell whether they are truly living by the Oath and Law or not through their conduct. My troop took a cavalcade at Philmont on one of my last outings with them as SM. One of our older boys was a Life Scout working on Eagle but his conduct during the cavalcade was NOT

Can we close and lock this thread now? This has devolved into a debate about whether allowing gays in would be desirable and various personal attacks despite Oak Tree's original request. There are numerous unScoutlike exchanges going on right now and I think it would best to just lock this topic and give everyone a breather.

"The rise in ocean levels is not up for debate. Is a dollars and cents issue that the US Government identified in a paper from FEMA in 1991 Projected Impact of Relative Sea Level Rise on the National Flood Insurance Program and an EPA piece from 1989 entitled The Potential Effects of Global Climate Change on the United States. Report to Congress. Appendix B: Sea Level Rise. This has been a topic for over 20 years." I'd say it IS up for debate. The FEMA report is an impact assessment ASSUMING the sea levels rise as projected in 1990. In the 1990s, TOPEX and JASON did record a minor globa

Oak Tree, I don't see how you're saying the values are defined to be aspirational. I'm glad the new Scout Handbook brought back the example definitions but they are hardly aspirational (pages 24-25): ----- What the Scout Law Means The Scout Law will show you how to live as a boy and as a man. A Scout is trustworthy. A Scout tells the truth. HE is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him. A Scout is loyal. A Scout is loyal to those to whom loyalty is due. A Scout is helpful. A Scout cares about other people. He helps others without expecti

Perhaps you show "A Time to Tell" ONCE for the New Scout Patrol whenever you have a bunch of new scouts. I'd rather explain the video to new parents and offer it to them on loan if they want to take it up with their sons -- or really any of their children. I can tell you I would have detested being made to watch that video more than once as a Scout -- in fact, I wouldn't have been too happy about even spending the time to watch it once but I've always been assertive enough that I wouldn't have been a victim. The only way I can see making Scouts watch that more than once would be if they

The Law is a code of conduct. While I expect anyone human to have occasional lapses, I think the term "aspirational goal" takes away the pressure to sincerely TRY to live up the Law. I agree 100% with GAHB on this point and it's one aspect of modern moral relativism that I find repugnant -- especially when I see it in Scout units. In the example GAHB cited about a SPL lying to his BOR about completing a requirement, I'd have finished the BOR right there: "I'm sorry son, that's not demonstrating Scout spirit in your daily life. Let's try this again in a couple of months."

mmhardy, you might want to rethink taking anything on Wikipedia at face value, especially over this issue. William Connolley and his surrogate Kim Pederson have actively revised any article even touching on AGW to promote their agenda. The issue of his misuse of administrative privileges (ostensibly over other topics) is under review right now. If you look at the data at the University of Colorado (who analyze the data from TOPEX/JASON), not only was the 1990s-era rise in sea levels nothing to worry about, it has actually flattened in the past few years. I am tired of mudwrestling

Can't say I've ever bothered to run the total but our small troop usually averages 20-30 nights a year -- a little less this past year for a variety of reasons. Since 1991? Hmm... I was away for 10 of those years but we were doing about 35-40 nights a year before I moved away, think they kept an average of 25-30 during the years I was away. I'll have to check with the troop records to see if we have a total since 1991.

I don't know who said all homosexuals are pedophiles on this board, I've never seen it here. I doubt that's a commonly held view, but it's a common strawman thrown out by the homosexual lobby to get around having to argue the simple math that increasing the number of male with an attraction to males is going to increase incidents. That's a warrantless risk being pushed by a politically powerful group that seeks not tolerance but embrace as mainstream. Either way, this guy should be sent away for a very long time if he's guilty.

I for one would be reluctant to conduct such training myself. What I WOULD do -- may in fact raise in committee this month -- is offer the materials to parents. I find these incidents rather upsetting because of the long term damage to the program. Perverts like this are WHY we have YPT and YP guidelines. To answer Gern's question, I don't think the ban on gays is complete protection (after all, this guy flew under the radar by being married and having kids but his conduct was homosexual by definition) but it helps lower the risk. Life is a stochastic process so I don't think the risk

"We just don't understand enough, eh? And from where I sit, the large majority of the critics fall into that category. Uninformed folks from outside da field who are pushin' an agenda for political or personal gain." We must be reading different sources. I have exactly the opposite reaction. The large majority of critics that I read DO understand enough or could if proponents would release the raw data. AGW has failed to meet the mark in my eyes for the past 20 years precisely because I feel I DO understand the science and it frequently fails the laugh test. AGW proponents like Al

Beavah -- I'm trying to locate my link to the original graphs but the original head and founder of the CRU was a profound skeptic of the GHG hypothesis until he died. His original reconstruction of ancient climates -- a reconstruction that was supported by historical and geologic records (which Jones, Mann et al seek to ignore or rewrite out of history) -- showed the MWP was roughly 8-10 C (15-20 F) degrees higher than today. People want to talk about permafrost thawing now? There are Norse graves in Greenland which are STILL buried under ice. The ground sure wasn't frozen much le

Eagle92, I can understand why that bugs you. I judge people's KSA based on their demonstrated performance, not their age (or their documented training). Now that I have both age AND experience (wouldn't mind it if I had a little less of the former), I would immediately dump on someone who tried to make a statement about someone else's KSA based on age.

Beavah, I'll go further than vol_scouter on this. When you look at what exactly CRU, GISS and GHCN have done to the temperature measurements so many people are basing their judgment on, it DOES call into question whether AGW even exists. The graph at http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/05/december-uah-global-temperature-anomaly-down-by-almost-half/ only shows the last 30 years so one would almost be inclined to "see" an upward slope as claimed by the AGW proponents but if one looks carefully, you can see a leveling off and even a downward trend starting around 2006. You see this again in

BadenP, I don't understand why you have to mock BDPT00 that way just because you disagree with him. He's already stated several times why he doesn't agree with this idea so he HAS presented a logical reasoned argument -- it just happens to be one you disagree with. I for one haven't seen any good reasons presented on why the Insignia Guide and policy should be amended. It's not going to bug me much if a few individuals choose to rebel but it doesn't mean I agree with them.

No Merlyn, vol_scouter, GHB, myself and many others have repeatedly backed up our statements with facts, figures, studies -- not to mention we all demonstrate a familiarity with REAL science that you clearly lack. I even gave you specific items (and sources!) to research yourself so you could be sure I wasn't quoting out of context. You have shown repeatedly that you don't understand the culture, terminology or processes -- all while professing to respect science. I could readily anticipate your actions as a stubborn ideologue from other threads where you demonstrated this pattern of be

I'm one of those who has never been able to wear my Eagle badge because I wasn't able to have my Court of Honor until after I finished my freshman year in college (and had turned 18). I've worn the square knot ever since then and am okay with that. I was a Scout during the late 70s/early 80s and contrary to so many others here, I can't recall seeing any Eagles wearing their badges over the age of 18. Perhaps it's because I was essentially on hiatus from Scouting while I was in college (I attended some meetings during the summer of freshman and sophomore years but not as many as I would

"BSA's focus should be quality over quantity." I agree with the general intent but the problem with it is you're assuming the BSA training actually increases quality. I contend a lot of the new training may NOT and I don't think it's in BSA's long term interest to drive potential leaders away. I am all for continuing to offer optional training and a few mandatory courses like YPT but would rather evaluate an individual's need for most of the courses and encourage them to take it if applicable. It seems to me BSA is being taken over by professional educators who confuse checking a box w

vol_scouter, Oh, you didn't miscategorize or offend me. I'm far from "the left" -- I just didn't think others on this board who ARE liberal or left-wing but reasonable deserved to be lumped in with the handful of obtuse ideologues who do nothing but launch ad hominems and make strawman arguments. Some people have such poor reasoning skills they don't realize the Freedom of Association cuts many ways, that they have the right to try to set up their own organization rather than try to badger and distort BSA to accept their values and priorities, that a private organization is exactly

Merlyn said: "Would excluding blacks from scouting decrease in a statistically significant manner, the number of thefts?" That seems pretty clear-cut in analogizing theft with the crime vol_scouter was referring to. vol_scouter, you really don't need to generalize your point to "the left". There are some specific hard core left-wingers here who argue obtusely but I don't think it applies universally to "The Left". Your question about a statistically significant increase is inconvenient so you flat-out won't get an answer to it from any of the ideologues.

I don't know mdsummer45 or the veracity of her story but before everyone goes passing judgment, it's just possible she has had more important and pressing matters in the past month or two. We've only had a couple of the most major family holidays in the last six weeks and if her story was true, she was likely burning down the telephone lines trying to call and get updates herself before 2009 drew to a close. It's often quite hard to get ahold of people in the office during this time of year ...

Eagle92, do you have a reference for that? I -- like OGE -- have only ever seen POR used in reference to Scout positions for advancement purposes. Adults DO have positions, sometimes with responsibility, but I have never heard the term POR used with adult positions in my 20+ years of being an adult Scouter.

I thought the question of the post was supposed to be about what would have to change if gays were allowed in yet I keep reading more attacks about "small minded" people block the acceptance of open homosexuals in BSA. Perhaps it would help getting back on track if we set up a list of axioms for the discussion like (feel free to comment on whether these should be axioms or suggest your own): 1. National BSA has decided to change policy and allow admission of open homosexuals 2. Individual units will have to observe the new policy or drop their charter 3. Some units will in fact dr

vol_scouter -- While all that is true and it's sometimes fun to ask "who stole my global warming" when it's subzero out there, I would exercise the same caution about short-term cooling effects as about short-term warming effects. As one climatologist said, "The last 40 years? That's weather. The last 40 centuries? That's climate."

Beavah, I'm the one you apparently quoted and I don't believe I said anything about your ability to understand the science. In fact, the reason put the list up (including sources for the AGW proponents) was so you and others could read and judge for yourselves. However, I reject the charge that they are all bogus sources, bloggers and partisan hacksites. Spencer, Singer, Lindzen, Pielke (both), etc. are legitimate scientists. Watts is a professional meteorologist. I gather McIntyre is not a physicist but he IS an engineer and statistician -- and his beef isn't with the physics but with th