HICO_Eagle

@Oldscout448 I don't blame you. I agonized over my decision to retire from Scouting. Nowhere near 50 years -- about 26 years as an adult Scouter, 5 as a Scout, 3 as a Cub -- although I would have liked to have ended the way the SMs I admired did, going to the grave with a Scout uniform. I told my fellow members on the Shooting Sports Committee that I'd help them with anything that didn't involve registering or sending money to National again (and I have). It just got to the point where I no longer trusted National. Robert Gates and his successors have been an abomination. I won't bot

I don't know why people are so amazed by things like this. Some people -- even kids -- can do a great job organizing things they want to do when they figure out no one else will do it for them. The pandemic gave them the opportunity -- what the TC needs to do is take advantage of it as an example of the patrol method for the other patrols and support the boys. Bravo Zulu for those boys. The troop I grew up in was so small we nicknamed it "the Fun Patrol" -- yeah, the whole troop was basically a large patrol. All our parents were busy so we had no choice but to organize everything ours

@CynicalScouter Congratulations on the patrols that are being active and let the jaw-struck ASM know that this is how things are supposed to work. The senior patrol that isn't doing anything will either get embarrassed and pick things up or not -- if not, it may be the "fumes" that affect so many senior Scouts. I lost a lot of good Scouts to "fumes" over the years but that's not necessarily a bad thing either; not every Scout has to be an Eagle and there are other ways to be useful contributors to society than working on Scoutcraft.

A lot depends on the SE. One of the former SEs in my former council kept bringing up an idea to sell property that had been specifically bequeathed to the council under condition it not be sold. If the council ever decides the property is too much to maintain, it reverts to the previous owner. Said SE also kept wanting to sell the land the current camp -- just 45-75 minutes from town) is on (prime real estate!) and replace it by buying land about 3-4 hours further west. It's hard enough to get units to use the camp facilities outside summer camp -- add a 4 hour drive to that? No thank you

I'm talking about the cancel culture whiners who are really the ones spawning these kinds of proposals. Most of them aren't even in Scouting (then again, neither am I anymore) but most of the changes to Scouting that I observed before retiring were coming from outside or from new people who had no background. Something like changing the term "Scoutmaster" is absolutely symptomatic of outsiders making "suggestions" with an inadequate uninformed understanding of history, etymology, context, etc. Trying to accommodate these kinds of people is what I consider inappropriate and unproductive.

Instead of submitting to cancel culture by changing titles, why not take it as an opportunity to teach them proper English and etymology? I fear there are more educated idiots per capita these days than any time in human history. People with degrees that still can't seem to construct a logical line of reasoning, who don't want to let facts or history get in the way of how they feel about something. If we change these titles today, how are these same people (or, God forbid, their children) react when reading Dickens or Doyle when they reference the schoolmaster or headmaster? Oh no, we'

I would say "produced" fits right in with how National views rank these days. The program seems far more focused on rank advancement and getting merit badges versus learning and doing than it was some years ago. In some ways, it's good for the boys, their path to advancement is a lot clearer and seems pretty structured. On the other hand, the requirements in merit badges seems a lot looser -- more of an orientation than a learning level of exposure - and the program is more of a mill than an institution for teaching and molding youth. A lot of the new Eagles are great boys and I'm proud

After decades of military training and leadership as well as unit-level adult Scouter leadership, the first thing I do when encountering quotes from business school "leadership experts" is skip to something more productive like a toenail fungus commercial . Between another "leadership manifesto" and week-old fish, I'll take the week-old fish (preferably quadruple-wrapped in plastic) because I can at least bait crab traps with the fish (I'd take the manifesto if I had a bird cage but I don't). I don't blame the new Wood Badge program for everything but from what I've seen on the peripher

@ maryread, I know some of the international co-ed scouting programs are touted to be "successful" but successful at what? I think in many cases, the agenda is more important than the result to the people claiming success. Society has changed so many girls are much more interested in vigorous outdoor activities than was the case 40 or 60 years ago. That suggests there is room for co-ed activities. On the other hand, biology hasn't changed much -- holding a 15 or 16 year-old boy's attention when there's a cute girl sitting next to him or even across from him is a lot more difficult than

It may be somewhat heretical here but I think British Bulldog has more value than most of the "training" advocated by National over the past decade or so. I tend to fall in Stosh's camp about letting the boys learn by doing; as an adult, I can give them lessons I've learned over the years and will if requested but the boys are the ones who have to learn to lead and part of that is seeing what works for them as situations and personalities differ.

The troop I was involved with used to run TLT twice a year as an invited campout shortly after elections. We would go through the normal BSA TLT instruction supplemented with some confidence/team-building games outside and I added some video clips from various movies for discussion. I think I still have the PowerPoint with the video clips on DropBox -- PM or email me for a link.

All of these "innovations" occurred in the last 25 years. IMO, they -- like most of National's changes to the program in the last 25 years -- were irrelevant at best and most likely contributed to the degradation of the program over the years.

When I've made donations (nothing in that ballpark!), I've requested specific wishlists on concrete unfundeds. My annual payraises or bonuses (as well as an unexpected windfall) went toward a new Mule for the camp, new rifles, fixing some sliding wall partitions and shelves at the council office, etc. I asked for no recognition although the camp director asked for permission to put a small plaque on the Mule indicating my donation (I told him I didn't want it but he could do it if he thought it would spur other donations). Our council was pretty bad about the mandatory FOS participation

Sorry ghjim but THESE are the dark days of Scouting. Most of what you talk about since Dale vs. BSA is mythology being perpetrated by adults who seek to validate their own lifestyle or political philosophies. Scouting's stance since before Dale vs. BSA until very recently was holding to age old traditions and values. The liberal wing that has hijacked Scouting has been trying to push out social conservatives which is why their reaction to Trail Life USA and other groups was what it was: instead of seeing the long-term threat to Scouting in general, they rejoiced in their departure because

They were disappointed but said they understood and supported my decision but we've been talking about this since Gates made his announcement. Pretty much the same reaction from my SE and the council shooting sports committee. I suspect the COR will be more disappointed as I didn't tell her directly (she was talking with some parents and I didn't want to break it to them just yet). I've been a Scout leader for more than half my life but I will find other ways to help kids and the community -- and in fact I told the shooting sportsl committee and Scoutmasters that I was willing to help out i

Heck, I think they helped craft it. This language is exactly the kind of thing I expect from DC-type politicrats like Gates. They will use it as a hammer against those who don't conform to their new definition of appropriate activities and overlook those who support causes they like.

I wasn't a member of the denomination or church that sponsored my troop but that wouldn't keep me from helping them if they went the independent route. As it stands, I informed the Scoutmaster corps and committee members that were at the meeting this week that I will not be registering for 2016. Robert Gates made it an issue and did so in the most devious totalitarian (i.e., unScoutlike) way possible. I don't blame the COs that have thought about this if they no longer have any trust in National.

This is laughable considering how Bob Gates and activist members of the Board of Directors unnecessarily inserted themselves into social issues. BSA has been a focal point of the culture wars precisely because it was a pillar of traditional values.

@@Stosh ... and this is an example of why I have a problem with the contemporary definition from National. Since when is asking someone to demonstrate they still know something that is supposed to be a core skill the equivalent of an Inquisition? That attitude is right up there with Bryan on Scouting whining that having a boy sing or do something else to reclaim the handbook or other item he continually leaves laying around is "unkind" or that waterguns are to only be used on targets as if they were BB guns or .22s. You'd think National was headquartered in California rather than Texas with

Personally, I am becoming more and more convinced that the only way to save BSA is to vacate the entire Executive Board and terminate the "professionals" that have pushed the changes in the program for the last 20+ years. That's clearly not going to happen so I'm doing a lot of thinking about whether I will renew in January.

Somehow I suspect there will be by the time the self-proclaimed "enlightened" ones are done changing the program.

Stosh, I hear you but it used to actually be a Board of Review, not a Board of Kindly Discussion. For nearly my entire Scouting career, youth and adult, that meant a review of the Scout's progress, skills, and suitability for the next rank. The way modern "Scouts" want to treat it, you may as well not have it, just have a checklist and get the rank once you get everything checked since the Scoutmaster's Conference and Board of Review are no longer events to be passed but simply something to endure.

FIFY. Every unit is wired differently too.

I'm going to disagree here. I personally abhor the way National has watered down SMCs and BORs but what really matters is that the Scout doesn't get the rank until it's recorded on the advancement form. Rank advancements still have to be signed off by members of the BOR so much as I usually agree with Stosh, the Scout has not earned the rank by the time he reaches the BOR. He has been signed off on all the requirements except for the final signature of the BOR. Small but critical difference.

This debate boggles my mind. 20 or so years ago, the only people I knew who claimed the Civil War wasn't about slavery were racist blacks or left-wingers who didn't want to give the North/Republicans/Lincoln/etc. any credit for going to war to free the slaves. Was slavery the only issue? Not by a long shot but it was the primary issue. What disturbs me today is the heavy emphasis on imagery over substance by the "social justice warriors" (e.g., removal of "Dukes of Hazard" episodes or items for sale while Che Guevara and Nazi memorabilia is allowed) and deliberate misinterpretations of