HICO_Eagle

I remember boys hiking the 3+ miles from the Boy Scout summer camp to the nearby Girl Scout summer camp in the evenings in the late 1970s. As was said earlier, "where there's a will, there's a way" -- but we don't have to make it easier for them. I personally felt there was a place for -- nay, a need for -- single-sex instruction in some things. The vast majority of teenage boys I knew -- from the time when I was a teenager myself until present -- don't focus well when there's a teenage girl nearby. Or rather, they focus well but not necessarily on what I need them to focus on. Having

I don't remember the prohibition against convoying on the old tour permit but we usually only had 3 vehicles when going anywhere and we made sure everyone understood the route we were taking before setting out. The difference often being that the drive leader HAD to lead from the front rather than middle as on a hike. I suppose others would have called that convoying, we called it being aware and keeping the group together.

The thing is neither BSA as a national organization nor the troop involved had standing. The Scouts involved were the ones who should have filed charges. The problem for BSA then was that accusations without proof of criminal conduct could have had serious repercussions and exposed the organization to liability. Put yourself in the SE or TCC shoes -- you have hearsay witness testimony but you don't know this yourself. You could file a charge with the police but you know the youth and their parents just want it to go away and may not testify. You know under the laws of the time that he

In my opinion, the breakage point is/was the low matriculation rate from Cubs to Boy Scouts. Creating Lions and Tigers bumped up those initial enrollment numbers which was touted by National and professionals but it seemed to accelerate the decrease in Cubs matriculating to Boy Scouts from what I could tell. Cubs to Boy Scouts is a natural transition point. Pre-Tigers, the parents would have spent 4 years with their boys in Cubs. The level of parental engagement varied of course but was generally high. Then they were faced with Boy Scouts or ... something else. Directing their boys to v

I didn't like Tigers when they unveiled it because I thought a lot of parents seemed burned out at AOL ceremonies as it was. We went from telling parents we wanted them to participate but not be helicopter parents to telling them we'd love to see them in at least 1 event a year (in other words, we're not asking you to be in everything like Cubs did). I felt like Lions were even more counter-productive. 3 years to do Bobcat/Wolf/Bear and 1-2 for Webelos/AOL seemed right to me when I went through it.

One of the things that kept me from getting more merit badges when I was a Scout was the difficulty in finding counselors (even more so, ones that I could get to on the public bus system). As an adult volunteer, it was still difficult to get and keep counselors outside the basic core subjects, particularly when National started demanding more paperwork to show you had the background or expertise on the subject. Charging them a fee to register is not going to help that situation.

Specifically, small but very vocal activist segments of Socialist/Communist, atheist, and LGBT groups. I've been watching the attacks since the 1980s. There have been others but those 3 communities have predominated in the attacks on Scouting that I've seen in public media for the past 40 years. Meaning Scouting as I've known it is done -- you can't roll back the clock. The separations we're seeing with charter organizations, youth departing for other activities or organizations, these are all indicators that Scouting will never go back to what it was even if the socio-political atta

Agreed. That misperception -- which derived from the inarguable benefits resulting from being an Eagle Scout in years past -- was part of what led to the increasing Eagle mill phenomenon. In my opinion, that kind of watered down the status of being an Eagle but my focus was on making the Scouts into better, more prepared adults so while I didn't care for Eagle mills, I didn't let them distract me from what I was trying to do.

No, it really doesn't because the fact of the matter is that BSA did take steps to protect Scouts from sexual abuse. There were some cases where troops or councils hid the abuse because they didn't want to deal with the public scandal but in many cases, the abuse was alleged and not proven. BSA held files where the suspicion was strong (but not enough for legal prosecution) in order to keep the alleged abusers from having direct contact with Scouts -- and these secret files were ironically the evidence used in court in the claims that BSA should have done more. The other problem Scoutin

My point was that Scouting in the US has been under attack by certain socio-political groups for decades -- since at least the 1980s in my experience. The lawsuit that resulted in huge financial liabilities and the loss of various Scouting properties and damage to charter organizations -- and therefore the withdrawal of the Catholic church that is the subject of this thread -- was a product of that attack.

While I agree that Scouting as we knew it is likely done, I am not thankful for that condition. I also disagree with the societal trend to blame BSA for past ills rather than the miscreants themselves. Lawyers went after BSA because it had resources that they could reach easily: land. Going after the actual perpetrators would have been fruitless from the lawyers' point of view because many of them are dead or don't have significant resources. Remember, the secret files that were used to prove the case against BSA were secret largely because BSA couldn't prove criminal charges against

Two councils were significant beneficiaries in my will before I retired from Scouting, the council I grew up in as a youth and the council I spent the bulk of my time working with as an adult. I served on the Shooting Sports Committee as well as being an ASM in my troop and teaching at UoS. When I retired from Scouting because I didn't like the direction the program was heading, I changed my will. Those bequests are now directed toward other organizations I trust. I made some significant donations to the local camp and paid for some overdue maintenance at the council HQ.

For what it's worth, the training may tell him that he should hold PLCs at least monthly and provide adequate notice of the dates and locations for campouts but it's the committee that needs to hold him accountable and complain that he doesn't. If I were the CC or COR, I'd insist on having a committee meeting soon to discuss the whys and wherefores of training and how the unit should function in terms of timely notifications and growing the Scouts by making the senior Scouts take some responsibility for their program. That can't simply be dumped on them, the SM or an ASM has to teach the

The IVFs were created in a time when Scouting could effectively deny a volunteer application without causing a stir while openly stating they suspected someone of sexual abuse or homosexuality could have wrecked lives -- many of them innocent. I'm a single male (never found Ms. Right and put too much time into work and Scouting) who simply wanted to give back to a program that I got a lot out of as a youth -- I'm willing to bet someone somewhere "wondered" about me at times and that could have been a career wrecker. The context of Scouting is precisely what made it attractive to predator

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Did you mean Robert Gates? He was a terrible DCI, worse SECDEF, and absolutely horrible President of Scouting. I'm not surprised he delivered this bit of shinola. Technically, he may be correct in that National owns the intellectual property of handbooks, uniforms, symbols, etc. and probably the loyalty of most of the SEs but it sure would be heartening for some of the LC boards to at least investigate their options in adhering to Scouting's ultimate purpose by separating from the disastrous decisions that have been coming out of Irving, TX for the past decade or two. My impression is that

When I first learned about the Ineligible Volunteer Files in the 1990s, I was given to understand that the cases of perversion were ones that Scouting couldn't prove (i.e., didn't go to trial) but that the local councils wanted to track to keep the alleged predator away from the boys. Cases that could be proven were supposedly referred to law enforcement. I understand that some people, wanting to avoid negative publicity, may have used the files as an alternative to pursuing prosecution. That was clearly wrong but it still hurts my head that something that was created as a tool for prev

I guess I've got a little different perspective. I saw little value in OA when I was a Scout in the late 70s/early 80s (Aloha Council). OA elections seemed to be a longevity or popularity award, in part because the new Scouts really didn't know who to vote for. The "Arrowmen" I saw were not necessarily the best at Scoutcraft and it was never the "Special Forces" of Scouting from what I could see. For that reason, I pulled my name from consideration as a Scout because I didn't want to take votes away from someone who did want to join the Lodge (I still seemed to get write-ins anyway). I a

Bear in mind that many of the individuals causing the most harm and responsible for the most damage are people who will actively evade the protections put in place: in the past, now, and in the future. The US Department of Defense and intelligence community spend tens of millions of dollars per year to find and protect against bad actors and they still have ongoing problems. The FAA and NTSB have extensive programs for protecting air travel against defects in design, manufacturing, and maintenance but none of their programs will do anything against the pilot who intentionally dives the a

I don't blame you at all but when you do move, you will be accomplishing exactly what the individuals and organizations who've been trying to destroy Scouting for decades want. Make no mistake -- some parties in these lawsuits are in it for justice, some are in it for revenge, some are in it for the money, and some are in it simply to destroy a pillar of traditional American culture and society. That last segment has been trying to destroy churches, Scouting, the military, law enforcement, etc. for decades and use any convenient avenue they can find. This doesn't diminish the very real hurt

I resigned from the Alumni Interview program in 2018, maybe 2017, due to increasingly regressive "woke" statements from the university in general and the Admissions Office in particular. I didn't just talk with interviewers, I was an interviewer and listened to the Admissions Office and looked at the matriculation rates of the applicants I personally interviewed. If youth are looking at the program as I did, as a path to gaining experiences, skills, and self-confidence, they should by all means continue with it or whatever program succeeds it. My point is that the value of the Eagle bra

I was an interviewer for an Ivy League university. From listening to the PC speak from the Admissions Office (not just professors who aren't part of the admissions process) to looking at the matriculation rate of applicants I interviewed, I'm pretty confident that Eagle rank is no longer a benefit and may in fact be a detriment in applying to these self-ascribed elite universities. It's one of the reasons I quit being an alumni interviewer.

IMO, the Eagle brand took a huge hit a long time ago for a variety of reasons. PC culture in elite colleges appeared to be using it as a strike against instead of for the applicants. Standards seemed to be lowered in merit badges, projects, etc. in order to increase the success rate. I personally would still be inclined to give an Eagle Scout the chance to prove him/herself to me even with otherwise marginal qualifications but that's just me and it's honestly a bit of sentiment. Outside forces have been attacking and attempting to dismember Scouting for their own reasons but I felt

At least the councils have the excuse of being broke. I've long had the opinion that the only thing National sees is money, hence needless changes like uniform changes that seem designed to just make boys spend money (like changing green to red), program changes that didn't improve the programs but made boys and units have to buy new MB pamphlets or fill out more paperwork (but hey, someone's ego got the boost of making major changes). Robert Gates showed just what he thought about local unit or even council autonomy when he decided to change membership rules without any discussion and i

FWIW, two deep was not required in the late 70s/early 80s when I was a Scout. Our troop went to summer camp with just one adult, the SM, at check in and in fact the SM was off-camp most of the week. We (the boys) in fact knew that was illicit but wouldn't have been able to go to camp had we not participated in the scheme because we had no other options. No other adult signed up to go with us and the SM (who didn't even have a boy in the troop) had a shop to run. The rules in the Aloha Council at the time required one adult, period. It absolutely was a thing by the time I joined a troo