Gold Winger

" Sometimes head scratchers come out of the votes. " You got that right.

"I had thought knots were honors bestowed on scouters, not something they earned." I guess you haven't seen the "training knots." I don't see the need for this knot, you have the patch for PTC. You can earn the knot for your position and, if memory serves, you need to attend advanced training for that.

Lah me . . . show me where committee members are even encouraged to wear a uniform.

I don't think that anybody lied. It may have taken a moment but everyone owned up. If you punish them now for "lying" and not the spitting, the next time an issue comes up, no one will fess up.

That's what they want you to believe.

I didn't know we were talking about horses. E, The problem here is that no everyone, especially today, has the same values of what is right and wrong and especially what may be offensive to others. The problem may actually be more with the parents than the youth. If you say to the Scout, "Do you think that that shirt is appropriate for Scouting," he'll probably say, "nah, you're right. I'll wear something different." Now the parents get involved. "He has a right to express himself. If others are offended, too bad." Years ago, I was officiating a high school age recreation basketball game. A horrible player from a horrible team tracked my partner and me down between games and started telling us how horrible we were. I said, "young man, this league has a rule prohibiting you from verbally accosting the officals or staff before, during, or after the game. You have just earned the priveledge of sitting on the bench next week." At that, his father tore into me telling me how his son had a "right" to express his feelings. I told the father, "America starts outside those doors, in here is Gold Wing land and the constituion is suspended. BTW, you are not allowed in the gym next week." They left muttering that they were going to get me fired. Oddly, I reffed for many years before my knees gave out.

Thank you John. The problem, Jblake, is that you aren't using the publications. You're reading small parts and making guesses, much like the guy who thought that "non leadership" position patches went on the right sleeve. Oddly enough, like you, he didn't want to accept the word of anyone else. Go figure.

I've never been arrested so I don't know the answers to this question which is vera, vera important. When you are arrested, do the police have the statutory authority to request your SSN? What if you don't know your SSN? What if you just say that you don't know your SSN? I'd think not because the last that I checked, government agencies can only require the SSN if they are dealing with tax/income related issues. Did you make too much to qualify for food stamps? Maybe a member of the Attorny General's staff can answer that. If the SSN isn't a part of the arrest record, what good is accomplished by having the SSN other than to make people think that the check is "more complete."

"we have a Webelo who (occasionally) freaks out over just the thought of bugs." What's a "Webelo"?

You might want to contact your OA Chapter or Lodge Chief, they speak with a bit more authority than the camp rep. Hoever, you really need to ask if most of the Scouts misunderstood the rules of the election or was it just those two. If everyone else understood the election then if you hold a re-election, the impression might be that "recounts will be held until the right result is reached."

"Talking with kids who are unhappy with Scouts and Scouting or who have quit. It does seem that we maybe spend too much time stressing the small and little stuff, enforcing and sometimes preaching?" Life used to be made up of the small and little stuff, rules and such. Take out the papers and trash or you don't get no spending cash! Now, all too often if you have a kid who doesn't want to mow the lawn, the answer is to say, "Fine, I'll mow it." Don't put your dirty clothes into the hamper, mom goes searching for them on the bedroom floor. Oh by the way, I don't want to seem unreasonable, so here's $20 so you can go to the mall with your friends. "I need to pick my battles!" is a frequent cry, then the kid comes home from school one day with two tattoos and announces that you're going to be a grandfather. I've always been a firm believer that if the little expectations are met on a regular basis, the big ones follow naturally.

Try looking in the handbook. Try the catalog . . . here's the description of the red knit shirt from ScoutStuff.org, "Here's a Scouting uniform option that's comfortable during any activity. This cool, lightweight shirt is a soft 50/50 cotton/polyester blend." Hmmmm . . . looks like they are calling it a uniform. So we have BSA catalog calling the red shirt a "uniform." In the uniform section of the handbook it says that Scouts may wear troop or camp t-shirts with Scout pants. And a BSA magazine says that you may salute while wearing the less formal activity uniform. Is that enough for you? Probably not.

Gotta love how people spin things. "Can't salute in the activity uniform because it isn't official." Let's see . . . BSA recognizes the activity uniform as a uniform. Also, a BSA publication has stated that a Scout may or should salute the uniform whilst wearing the activity uniform. What is the activity uniform? By the book it is Scout shorts or pants, a scouting shirt and a Scout socks. However, if we treat a Scout in a tan shirt and blue jeans as being in uniform, we must extend that to the activity uniform as say as long as the shirt is a troop shirt or roughly Scouting related it is the activity uniform. Hence just about anything that you wear at summer camp is the activity uniform. I guess that we've reached the point to say, "your opinion no longer matters, we have the BSA's opinion and theirs is the one that counts."

I'll see what I can provide tomorrow.

"In the BSA organization there is no such thing as a class-B uniform, so in fact it does not exist, it shouldn't be assumed to be one. " There may not be a Class B" but there is an "activity uniform" which is still a uniform and the salute should still be rendered when in such uniform.

"If you are spending time with my son on a regular basis, I would want as thorough of a check done as possible. Why let someone slip through the cracks because their fingerprints aren't on file but their SSN will tell you they are bad news? That makes no sense." Ed, you really don't know how the system works but this discussion is like trying to teach a pig to whistle. So go back to your strange little world. Oh, BTW, please post your SSN here so that we all may check your background.

"Would that mean plain color t-shirts with nothing on them are not allowed?" Not according to the original post.

Sheesh! If you're that old, you should have seen "Dark Star" at least once.

We Ev, the FBI has had mine for over 30 years because I've been investigated eight ways from Sunday and for a higher level clearance they look into your financials. However, the FBI doesn't have the statutory authority to go digging through financial records when you're buying a firearm.

"The FBI does background checks without asking for your SSN number because they can get it without asking!" I think that you've been watching too much TV.

Young people! Nobody watches the classics anymore. :-)

I know what you mean. I met a Scouter one summer at camp who wasn't coming back because they didn't offer enough "good" merit badges. I said, "whadday mean? they have swimming, sailing, wilderness survival, canoeing, as well as COPE and a three day medium adventure program." He explained that those were "fun" merit badges and that the boys shouldn't go to camp to have fun.

Quite often the "Emergency Authorities" don't want volunteer help.

"But a shirt with Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck? Come on!! What's the harm?" How about that Donald Duck wears no pants?

Think John Carpenter and 1974 or 75 not Lucas, 77 and 37 rereleases.