Gold Winger

I'm not a so-jer but in thirty years, about the only times that I've used safeties are with my single action pistols when in a match which requires drawing from a holster or when I'm carrying a single action pistol cocked and locked for personal defense.

The last time that I applied for credit at a store, I typed my own SSN into a console and the clerk never saw it. "Can anyone supply a cogent reason why the BSA needs a consumer check rather than a CBC?" Probably costs less.

I'm confused. Why would my gun case be on my seat?

I've been a competitive shooter for over 30 years and an NRA shooting instructor for about 20. The range commands for the NRA do not use the W word, we call them "guns." I know that the military doesn't like gun but that's too bad. If I'm teaching personal defense, I call it a weapon. If I'm teaching recreational shooting, it is either a firearm or gun. When it's in my range box on my way to a match, it is a gun. When it's tucked into a holster under my sportcoat, it is a weapon. Different situations, different terminolgy. Just like the military isn't the end-all for how the flag is worn, they aren't the end-all for gun knowledge (sorry Gunny). Come to think of it, a Gunnery Sergeant taught me to shoot (Gunny John Clark). He never refered to our Hi-Standard pistols as weapons and our M1s were called rifles.

Don't forget that Scouting doesn't just happen at Scout meetings. Instead of meeting at the regular place, you can have a meeting at a park or at a fire house or at a football stadium. The only limitations are your imagination . . . and the guide to Safe Scouting.

Ask the Scouts what they would like to see done at the meetings. Games should be part of the meeting, especially patrol competitions. Planning campouts should be done at the patrol level or by the PLC. In my little mind, a metting should start with a game that emphasizes some Scout skill like knot tying, fire building, tent set-up, etc. Then maybe a little bit of instruction, better if it relates to an upcoming outing: for example, talk about winter clothing or sleeping bag selection. These work best if you have actual things sleeping bags (good and bad) or some guy dressed in layers and layer of clothing. Or what makes one knife better than another . . . with a guy with a big selection of knives. 30 minutes for the game, 20 for instruction. . . . already nearly an hour.

Ed, have you ever found out that you have a credit card that you didn't open? It isn't a nice feeling.

" but what your gun dealer requires has no bearing on what BSA requires." It's not what the gun dealer requires, the dealer doesn't do the check. It's what the FBI requires. The point is that check can be done without the SSN. "Heck to get a CPA, you have to give a finger print; at least BSA isn't requiring that." To get an FFL, I had to give all ten prints. To get my DoD and DoE clearances, I had to give all ten prints. To get cleared to work with kids as a sports official, I had to give all ten prints. The difference is that those were given to government agencies with statutory authority to request my SSN and have policies and procedures in place to protect my information. (This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

"Not entirely true, When buying a weapon, they look first at Name and address, if they get a possible hit in the criminal Justice system, then they start looking deeper and may ask for your SSN. I get NCIC inquiries from them all the time asking for records and peopls SSN are sometimes on the information provided." Are you a dealer? I am. They never insist on SSN. Unless they've changed the 4473 without telling me, next to SSN it says "optional." (This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

I have a letter from the State Police telling the world that I don't have a criminal record and especially no recrod of child related crimes. Why? I'm a sports official. To get that, I went to a poh-lease station, got fingerprinted, and submitted that to the State Police. Teachers, day care providers, etc. go through the same process. All of us with these nice letters should be able to just give a copy of that to BSA. I'm sure that the State Police did a better job than ChoicePoint. This whole thing is really a knee-jerk reaction. It sounds good on the surface but does it really do anything? As a sports official, I just show up to a bunch of strangers and declare that I'm in charge. Who am I? They don't know me but I'm there insinuated into their lives as an authority figure. In Scouting, that's different. Sure, you don't know every Scouter but they are known by someone. Nearly everyone started off as someone's dad. They aren't strangers. That's no guarantee that they aren't "funny" as people used to say but it is a good indication that they haven't been caught. That's all the check is going to do, catch the ones who have already been caught. BSA really needs to look at their invasion of privacy. If I decide to opt out, I really won't be losing much, a registration card and a chance to wear a uniform. What will BSA lose? My $10 and the $10 of the others who opt out. Heck, for me it always comes back to the fact that I can buy a gun and have the FBI do a criminal background check without needing my SSN. Why the heck can't BSA do that?

"My Venturing scout daughter wants to know who Wings is." I have to ask . . . what's a "Venturing scout"? :-)

" A 21-year-old would be a youth in the OA, and thus unable to serve as an advisor. Chief, yes, advisor, no. " I thought you aged out of youth in OA on your 21st birtday.

Elvis collar? I have been and will continue to be confused by this comment. Elvis' famous collars stood up almost too his ears. The Scout collar is supposed to like flat, just like that on the khaki Marine Corps shirt (go ahead, tell the Marines that they look like Elvis). I thought maybe it is the length of the collar so I went a measured one of my Hathaway dress shirts: 2.75 inches from point to notch. Measured my Scout shirt: 3.0 inches from point to notch. I then went down into my basement and measured my old green Scout shirts. The one with the band around the collar so you could wear a tie: 2.6 inches. The one from the 70s with no collar band: 3.0 inches. Not a big difference there. What on earth do you want? A T-shirt. It is an open collared shirt. Get over it. As for the socks, I like the red strip, makes it look like you're not just wearing an old pair of regular socks.

Why didn't you just ask the OA advisor about the admonition. FWIW, I don't remember seeing it in the OA handbook or on the back of the card.

We used to confiscate electronics, put them into a zip lock bag and bury them by the campsite flagpole. It was up to the Scout to remember to dig it up on Saturday morn before we left.

Well Bob, as usual, you blather on. My council was doing committee traing 20 years ago. Maybe God was helping us and BSA got the idea and created that waste of time, "Troop Committee Challenge."

Color me simple but I'm confused about what the date of the B&G has to do with working on advancement. A Cub can work on a rank until the day he ceases to be eligible for that rank, usually when school ends and he moves up a year. Then again, some say the grade doesn't change until September. That's a semantics. The big point is that having a dinner in March doesn't mean that Junior can't work on the Bear badge until school lets out. To do otherwise is cheating the boys.

"How is that posibble? There was no committee specific training in the BSA prior to Troop Committee Challenge." Bob, with God and Love all things are possible.

I find it interesting that you can get an FBI background check to buy a gun without a SSN but to join the Boy Scouts, you need to provide the number. Maybe what folks ought to do is just have a grass roots revolt. If every new volunteer refused to give his/her SSN, BSA would change their policy in short order.

Interesting discussion. I was an instructor for committee training long ago, long before the new "Committee Challenge." One of the points that was made was that although concensus was a good thing, neither voting nor concensus was needed for the CC to act. Until relieved, the CC is the ultimate authority in the unit (okay . . . but let's the the IH and CR out of it for now). Now, that's not the way that most things work . . . people discuss and vote until they are blue in the face but that's the way it could work.

"A team does not require someone to bark out commands to get the job done and nothing in the BBSa suggests tat it does." You must have a strange life. In 30 years, I've never had a boss who barked out orders.

" Leadership is also needed in these situations, even if in a lonely rural setting." Would that be "servant leadership"? :-)

Ya gotta do whacha gotta do or in the common vernacular, a man must do what he must. Take the entire den with you if you leave. The sad thing is that most of the time when an organization folds because no one will step up, those who wouldn't help will say, "someone should have done something." They never realize that the someone was them.

I don't know if the executive committee does much for generating community goodwill. The units do that by going out and picking up trash, visiting veterans in the hospital, taking water to rescue workers at the Pentagon.

Sure, why not?-