fred8033

I agree on avoiding an external organization propping up scouting. The charters were far more about marketing and very, very little about oversight. The issue was the paperwork did not match the intentions or the execution. Thus, massive liability. I'm not sure the leaders of a troop are ever fully protected; no matter who charters. They should be insured and trained. Also, it seems right to me. Responsibility closer to the immediate people.

The sentence is misleading. Inferring a general rule. It is the far, far exception and the outlier that proves the rule. BSA had millions of registered adults. I've read many, many of the IVF files and did not see what is inferred here. The quote was "I have reviewed information that now makes clear to me that decades ago BSA did, in at least some instances, allow individuals to return to Scouting even after credible accusations of sexual abuse." ... It was not the policy or rule. Any organization of millions of people will have "some instances". It is interesting in the same 201

Undermining american institutions ... Agree BSA files were a good thing. ... Intelligible Volunteer Files were always a good idea and BSA took those files very seriously. Lots of effort was made to keep them complete and accurate. I wish BSA could keep such files still. BUT, it might be in BSA's legal interest to NOT be the gatekeeper of that information as it just creates future legal risk. Someone in the future could use those files as evidence of mistakes and liability. ... Business in the 1980s and 1990s started standardized record purging (emails, files, etc). The idea was to

Dang. I'm having trouble staying out. I'm trying to wean scouting out of my system. Scouting is supposed to be FUN; a bunch of friends getting together with a purpose. Yes, mtgs should prep for activities and camp outs. Making sure scouts have the needed skills. ... BUT ... It's like my wife's book club. They get together. Talk. Laugh. Eat. Choose the next book. Some talk about the book. Laugh. Talk about other things. ... A few of the ladies might read the book, but it's not really the purpose of the group. The group is fellowship and building relationships. Same for sco

Thank you and I wish everyone the best. I've been involved with scouting for 23+ years and I'm transitioning out for new adventures. Scouting will ALWAYS hold a special place in my heart. My wife says I can't walk into a store without buying scout popcorn, cookies or wreaths. Under the auspices of scouting, I've camped 300+ nights; often on scout properties. Sometimes in national, state or county parks. Sometimes on military bases. Sometimes in thunderstorms, floods, hurricanes and more than one blizzard. I've loved sharing these adventures with my sons and the other scouts. I'v

Great answer !!!!!

We want to succeed with most scouts. So, ... outside scout meetings / camping / activities ... expecting the scouts to coordinate too much with parents, off-line planning is not realistic. Schools and other orgs push communication to the parents and expect parents to push the scouts. IMHO, this is part of extended childhood / helicopter parenting / modern teaching. I wish this was 1950s where we'd expect the scout to follow thru and they would. IMHO, scout leaders should expect scout responsibility inside scouting (meetings, camps, activities). Responsible for cooking, particip

It's a nothing-burger is a mostly accurate representation. Youth and parents won't join scouting because of the diversity MB. IMHO, it's a check box for the modern era. It's a slight negative because it's yet another paperwork / school like MB. Scouts can enjoy the conversation just like most people enjoy complaining about school / work or espousing expertise on hot air topics. Scout's join to have fun, be active and get bragging rights. IMHO, this MB does none of that. It strongly overlaps with school and 1000 other pipelines. Generally, the MB is a nothing burger except

Lots of small, friendly conversations over coffee with the SM and CC. ... AND ... if they don't sign-on, don't subvert their direction. Perhaps you can help like in the above ideas such as bringing your sewing machine. Otherwise, the most important point in my view is slowly getting everyone on the same page.

Glad to read this. I'm often frustrated with portrayals of conservative groups as it's not an accurate image of what I've seen or what exists. Sorry for saying this but those portrayals are coming from politically acceptable hate mongering and bigotry; politically acceptable hypocrisy. Glad your scout is having a good experience. Such stories are exciting to hear and offer a glimpse of a constructive future. I really hope that someday the only acceptable group to hate are the Green Bay Packers.

ASPL functions as SPL when SPL is absent. https://troopleader.scouting.org/assistant-senior-patrol-leader/ FYI ... This also respects the scout's choices. The scouts elected the SPL. The SPL selects his ASPL(s). The SPL knew the ASPL was to fill in when needed. The Troop Guide was assigned to help new scouts, not to fill in for the SPL. ... So, ASPL respects the scouts' choices. IMHO, perhaps have the Troop Guide support and mentor the ASPL. That is the job of a troop guide.

#1 Size & deep pockets. #2 Long-standing, history of being insured at the national level. From what I've seen, church-based youth camps DO have the same issues. I'd be surprised if hard, difficult cases like the BSA liability case get resurrected for an individual camp that might have 5 or 10 cases from 30 or 40 years ago; especially as most youth camps barely make money and the affiliated churches are not cash rich either. Simply put, lawyers need big cash incentives to get involved.

I've seen this before with Knights of Columbus and their squires program. KofC Squires or Elks Antlers are too niche without broad visibility. Heck, I know zero adults who are Elks. I know far more that are active in KofC, but I've never heard of a youth using Squires. IMHO, Antlers and Squires are not a BSA replacement. Also, Elks (like many fraternal organizations) has membership issues of their own. PLUS ... if Elks' Antlers program was successful, it would be facing much of the same liability issues that BSA has had. IMHO, the issue is insuring a massive scale youth progr

Probably smaller organizations that start up and shut down. That purchase insurance on their own. Maybe it would be good that a troop would startup and dissolve over 10 or 20 years. BSA has long been a lightning rod for all the society ills for the last 100+ years. It bankrupted and nearly killed BSA. Maybe BSA should oversee camps that outside organizations use; if they come with their own insurance, etc. Or, have the camps as individual on-going non-profit organizations that run themselves. Or, petition government to own special state and national parks that specialize in hostin

IMHO ... It's not at all that national is clueless or making decisions in a vacuum. This is 100% about legal liability for a great youth program run loosely by outside volunteers and BSA being held liable for societal ills. This is why "I think" BSA should NOT be a membership organization. It should be a certifying body. BSA should certify that the outside youth in an outside organization (Troop ###) completed rank requirements. They should not be certifying safety or membership or liable for each and every camp out. BSA will never wield enough control to be able to legally protect

I'm glad I'm transitioned now. At one point, we had four actively registered scouts in my family and two registered adults. That would have been $440 in national fees. Probably another $320 in council fees at least. $760 for just registration and before Boy's Life magazine, camping, uniforms, activities, miscellaneous AND fundraising to keep the unit viable. Wow! In hind sight, I am sure there were many years that scouting cost was at least $5000 a year and some that must have been near twice that. Jamboree. High adventures. Four summer camps. ... and the miscellaneous cost for

I'm sure your son faced enough judgements over those two years between suspension and the Eagle application. If after the suspension, the troop kept the scout registered, then the suspension should not be used against him. Key point is keeping the scout registered and participating is tacit agreement that the scout could earn Eagle if he stays active and working the requirements. It's too late at the EBOR to use the suspension against the scout. ... It might be very different if the incident was a month before the EBOR.

Ongoing i Ongoing improvement is good. Practice is good. Finding a reason to perfect and grow skills is good. The problem is referring to it as a test. In the SMC, it's not. It's part of the conversation and not a pass or fail condition.

I wish I could provide more detail. Four months seems long, but I'm not sure. QUESTION - Did you appeal to national via your council? Or did you directly appeal to national? I'm curious about procedures. I ask as I'm wondering if and when national received the appeal. Was there a middle man? Did it really get there?

Wow !!! I wanted to comment that books and uniforms are profit centers that are not subsidized by national fees. So, I was curious. What is the price of a new handbooks from scout shop? $23.99 for Wolf, Bear, Webelos, etc. All ring bound. No hard bound. $24.99 for troop handbooks. Our pack used to buy cubs their books. We stopped when they were around $12 or $15. Most cubs went without. At $24.99 and the online scoutbook, I'd be tempted to go without for the troop scout level paper copy too. I'd be tempted to create a nice thin, small troop level pamphlet where scouts could ke

Saw this in our council too. Every non-profit is fundraising so much and scouting is not the darling child anymore. Maybe 20 years from now, scouting will find it's roots and do better again. Until then, council fees are in vogue. IMHO, the real issue is the market does not support big council staffs anymore. Like camera film development and fax machine sales, the market has shifted. Time for the councils to re-think their business models. National too. The real question is does the individual scout get value from the $75 national and $100+ council fees which their own units are staf

I agree. Also, it would help address borderline units where the unit has a low number of boys or a low number of girls. Critical mass of numbers is so so important in scouting to make it a fun program.

Minimizing council administrative cost per scout is the biggest argument for merging councils. If scout exec is $46 per scout, then double or triple that for all the council staff combined. So, it would be $100 or more per scout for council administrative staff. Especially recognizing that camp staffing should be from a different bucket. Scout shop is a different bucket.

We need to transition to a troop is a troop. Troops can choose to be boys only, girls only OR boys & girls. IMHO, we're in 2023. If YPT is address, this should not be an issue.

I had an interesting experience yesterday. I have a part-time weekend job. One of my co-worker is a 71 years old retired cop. Great guy. ... I somehow referenced scouting and he asked "oh, you were in scouting?" I briefly explained. I asked if he was in scouting. His comment was ... without using "only" ... Yes. He made it to Life Scout, but that was back when scouting was fun. ... I really found that interesting. Unprompted, his first comment was about that scouting was not fun anymore.