fred johnson

Old_OX_Eagle83 ... I agree this thread is a perfect example of the problem with the attitude toward Eagle Scout. Too many people infer too much on Eagle. It's rightly respected and very well hyped, but it is only a rank. You do the requirements and earn the rank. Too many people think it's more than that. It is scouting that teaches character and it's being a scout that we should honor. Eagle just means requirements were completed. If the kid completes the requirements, he's earned Eagle. People who talk about "the award is cheapened" are way off base and are protecting the award instead of pr

Old_OX_Eagle83 ... I understand where you are coming from, but I have a different view. Scouting and being a scout is about character development. Eagle Scout is about completing requirements. If the kid did the work and met the requirements, I'd be fine with him getting Eagle ... after everything is resolved from the incident. I'm not so sure I'd want him to stand in front of the troop for an Eagle ceremony. But that's always a family choice. Membership ... I'd have him move on after receiving the rank. IMHO, the kid tripped at the finish line. Help him cross it and

This will be an incredibly hard life lesson for this scout. QUESTION - How old is the scout? If 17, how many months until he turns 18? -------------------------- Eagle ... Would not be my biggest concern. ... But I would hate to see him not get Eagle because he's already done everything for it but a conversation (SMC) and a board of review. He's done the work and has tripped and fallen at the finish line. So if he got Eagle, I'd be fine with it. But I fully understand your not willing to sign off on the SMC. --- If he was a month or two before turning 18, I'd be tempted to

You can only keep an achiever idle for so long before they leave to find somewhere else to achieve. From what I saw, a scout that completes everything early wants to complete things. If scouts stops offering things to work on, he'll move on. Even if he doesn't have Eagle. Even if they stay, it tends to poison their experience.

Old_OX_Eagle83 is right. Scout leaders talking about "too young" are not serving the youth. You serve the youth by putting on a good program and teaching and working the skills, the program and the requirements. As for advancement, that's an individual scout issue. Talking age is the wrong focus. IMHO, a scoutmaster planning to not sign off on a scoutmaster conference is mean and contemptible. I would hope the scoutmaster would have the spine to be honest with the scout instead of leaving the scout out in the wilderness thinking it's something he did. "Sorry Johnny. I know yo

Stosh ... Your "carry this logic further" are exactly right and very real. A CO can, through directing the unit leaders, choose the summer camp, popcorn sales, camporeees and other activities. Only when the scout can directly sign up (council high adventure for example) can the scout avoid CO dictates. The other option a scout has is to switch troops. You said it yourself. A CO could direct the troop leaders to not hold OA elections. Without unit level elections, scouts can't get into OA. Effectively, the CO banned OA for their scouts.

RememberSchiff ... The discussion in the Senate hearing was fascinating. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digi...06466NCJRS.pdf I only read pages 19-30 and piecemeal of the first 10 pages. The 1986 law expanded to remove the commerce requirement. It made it illegal to solicit or advertise the material also. I guess that leverages the commerce clause without actually requiring a sale or exchange of material. I didn't see any of that in statement made to BSA about Challberg. Even then BSA could have refer it to police. But if they don't know of a crime having occurred and the family doe

RememberSchiff ... Still reading. The evolution of the law is always fascinating. I am having vivid memories of my college constituational law classes. ------------------------------ The 1977 "Proection of Children Against Sexual Exploitation Act" leveraged the commerce clause of the US Constitution. As such, it required "commerce" and "interstate" activity ... or the activity happened in the District of Columbia, a territory (Guam, Puerto Rico, etc), maritime waters, a federal prison or similar. From what I understood, Challberg had pictures he took. There was no discussion that he

RememberSchiff ... The 2002 conviction was based on more current laws. Laws passed in 1988, 1996, 2002, 2003 and 2006 to address it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_p..._United_States From best of what I read, before the 1980s and in the early 1980s, child pornography was not illegal as the laws were missing or lacking. During that time obscenity laws tried to ban all pornography outright and the US Supreme Court held pornography was a first amendment right. But the USSC did hold that child pornography was different. So in this case the BSA had statements about actions in 198

I keep trying to match today's outrage with the good people who had those roles back then. So I keep trying to read and learn. A few curious things I read recently. - In 1953, Alfred Kinsey wrote "it is difficult to understand why a child except for its cultural conditioning should be disturbed by having it's genitalia touched." ... A concept so ugly to us now was not a red flag back then. That really surprised me. ... in another words ... not everyone considered certain acts as child abuse ... Page 226 ... http://www.futureofchildren.org/futu...ication_detail .... This triggered memories

RememberSchiff and packsaddle ... Hindsight is cheap. AZMike ... "Deference". Well said.

Knowlege was different. Laws were different. Parents, police and public behavior was different. It was a different world. In 1986, it was still hard to believe a coach or teacher would sexually abuse a student. Back then, we were still talking battered child and stranger danger. No one was talking about those we trust the most. David Walters wrote in 1975 "Virtually no literature exists on the sexual abuse of children." In 1977, Henry Kempe described it as "another hidden pediatric problem and a neglected area." The 1970s focused on child abuse as the battered child era. htt

GeorgiaMom hit it on the head. "Silence is consent." Bad behavior needs to be addressed and clearly communicated that it is unacceptable. That's part of saying that the camp rules are the Scout Oath and Law. Parents send their kids on scouting events because it's about developing character and values. If I then heard my son was bullied, I'd be livid. mattman578 also hit it on the head. "you have a very limited time to correct the behavior before they forget what they did." Discussions and corrections need to be done quickly so that it's associated to the bad behavior. I've said this

Two quick comments.... --- Our troop really isn't into suspensions. Either you are a welcome member of the troop or you are not. If things change in the future, we'll welcome a scout back. But our troop doesn't really do time-outs, suspensions or the like. It's more like if you can work within the bounds of scouting, we are glad to have you. If you can't, then you need to look elsewhere. if things change, we'll be glad to have you back though. --- Troop guide ... should be for your best scouts, ... your quality OA scouts. I would not put a problem scout into that role. In

Should be another voting option. Like "Never heard of this before.". Glad our camps don't do it. Only had it happen once at Sea Base. And it was a staffer and it went really quick. Phones and consumer cameras are very good these days. We take our troop photos ourselves during one of the morning in-camp flags before breakfast. Plus people are already pestered with enough ways to spend / waste money. While it is "nice", camps already have enough bottle necks with health form checks, swim checks, beach talks, safety talks, bear talks, etc, etc etc. If I was a kid and just

Scout's choice. Initially, usually a new den forms of the scouts that just joined. But scouts can switch patrols at any time given that the new patrol accepts them into the patrol. It's as easy as the scout and the PL letting the SPL ... and hopefully ... the SPL lets the SM know. IMHO, the patrols work the best when the scouts never change patrols. That's how they develop ownership and pride in their patrol. And if that patrol becomes just two or three scouts in their 7th year of scouting, fine. And if the patrol dies when those scouts age out, I'm okay with that too.

What is a "PTB" ?

twocubdad ... Good luck. Sounds like you are handling it. My only comment is never wait for the "come to Jesus" moments. If bad behavior exists, always make it clear that it's not acceptable in scouting. Let him know that you value and like him. But that if he wants that type of behavior he should look elsewhere. I always hate seeing behavior problems discussed at advancement SMCs and/or BORs. Why wait? Problems must be dealt with in a timely way. Unresolved problems ( ... uhhhh .... BSA president Gates are you listening ...) only fester and create more damage than the incide

Mark Hancock ... Before I forget ... I should mention I sympathize with you as your earlier posting of your experience reflects my families experience with the local YMCA. The memory was triggered by reading Trail's Life core values document. The original YMCA seems to reflect many of the same values as Trail's Life. But today's YMCA is very different and it is an organization I find hard to support ... mainly because the organization does not hold the same values as it held when I grew up.

Mark Hancock - Where are the membership standard documented? I just read the core values. Just interested.

Peregrinator ... We're playing word games and we are off topic. I believe I used the term "trademark" correctly. Perhaps I should have said it's a "trademark issue" instead of just "trademark". BSA has individually registered trademarks in Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Eagle Scout, Sea Scout, etc etc. And the congressional charter does come into play. Choosing "Hacker Scouts" was to be muddy the waters leveraging the long good history of scouting in the USA and also claim a more "edgy current" name. Given all the new technology merit badges, I'm not surprised BSA is trying to

RememberSchiff - Hacker Scouts is a completely different issue. "Scouts" is a BSA trademark. If BSA doesn't consistently defend the use of it's trademarks, it loses the rights to those trademarks and then they become public domain. It's a legal rights issue and not reflecting a desire to not work with others. Plus Hacker Scouts choose that name to leverage the goodwill and history of scouting in the USA. It was chosen on-purpose with the intention to leverage the goodwill of the trademarked name. Here are those trademarks. http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing

Mark Hancock ... Well said and I respect your words and approach. I'm sad you won't be with BSA anymore. You represent Trail's Life very well. For me and my family, we're sticking with BSA. In our life, faith formation is through attending mass and religious education. Scouting is about adventure and character. Other than people getting upset about changes, I have seen zero effect from the May 2013 changes.

Okay ... final one ... Advancement transfer in Microsoft Excel worksheet lists essentially every BSA award for use in transferring advancements. http://www.traillifeusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Transfer-Module-2013-12-01-beta-13.xls Wait wait wait ... a few quotes "... we believe that the men and boys left behind in the BSA ..." .... or .... "... in explaining our program, its origins, or differences between TLUSA and the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) there are times where it is both necessary and appropriate to make reference to BSA and or its policies." Not a competitor

... Didn't read enough ... Not a competitor? Open these pages from Trail's Life site and store. Advancement --> http://www.traillifeusa.com/faqtab/a...trail-life-usa Advancement graph --> http://www.traillifeusa.com/wp-conte...13/10/BSA3.png """ TROOP """ Flag --> http://traillifeusastore.com/product...ial-troop-flag Referencing BSA --> http://www.traillifeusa.com/faqtab/guidelines-communications-referencing-bsa/ Trail's Life may be a good program. I don't know. Just don't try to blow smoke. Trail's Life is a re-branded BSA program with a Christian emphasis