emb021

"I'm a little hazy on an Eagle Court of Review. Can someone elighten me?" Am sure that was a typo, and he meant "Eagle Board of Review".

"Ya know, you'd think the GSUSA would look at the older girls flocking to Venturing, scratch their heads and wonder where they made a wrong turn......but evidently not. " Go take a look at their "Studio 2B" program... Also, see if you can find any info on how the girls have reacted to the program...

"I also see that a uniform can make a difference. The white dress uniform is impractical from a functional stand point but it does look sharp and seems to draw the kids in recruiting wise. " And this is why the Navy (and Sea Scouts) have different uniforms. (btw, in Sea Scouts we have 'summer white', not 'dress white'. There is a difference.) Ships around here summer white for meetings (and, yes, recruiting ). When sailing, its usually (depending on when/where you are) either t-shirts & shorts or blue work uniform (chambray blue). In fact, for SEAL the youth are required to wear the blue work uniform (the adults I understand wear the summer tan uniform).

Donald's nephews are all highly-decorated members of the "Junior Woodchucks". Carl Barks (THE Duck artist) created that group and wrote many stories about them. His 'successor', Don Rosa, has continued this, even working in the early group into his "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck". Their handbook, the "Junior Woodchucks Guidebook" is a full and complete compendium of all knowledge, in a small pocket size guidebook. Be ware that only boys can be members of the Junior Woodchucks. Daisy's neices were all members of the rival girl's group, the Junior Chickadees. The Junior Woodchucks were founded by Clinton Coot, son of Cornelius Coot, founder of Duckburg and the Woodchuck Militia. For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Woodchucks

The term is 'hat plumes'. AFAIK, they were never used in the BSA. Here is a great document at the UK Scout Association that catalogs all the different plumes that they've used: http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs145002.pdf

"Who selects the members of the Executive Board, what are their backgrounds in scouting, and what/whose interests do they truly represent? " "Not the volunteers, I am sure most will agree. " "Who then should we hold responsible? " The voting members of a council are the Chartered Organization Reps, not the volunteers. We can thank James West for this system. In every membership organization I am aware of (or am apart of), its the members (or their elected representatives) who have this power. In the BSA, the 'members', who should be the volunteers, are instead the Chartered Orgs. And when it comes to elections, they mearly confirm the candidated put forth by the nominating committees. There are no nomination from the floor, candidated are not voted for individually. Again, not quite the right way to do things. But what do you expect? West was an attorney, not a parliamentarian...

" "Its "netiquette", not "netetiquette"." "How can we have a forum if someone makes typo's! I think we should take knotty out behind the barn and beat him with everythnig we got. Perhaps not, it was typed incorectly twice! I think this is a killin offence. " Interesting comments, consider it was you who made the typos. BTW, its considerd bad form (ie poor netiquette) to point out minor typo/grammer issues. Major typos that leads to unclear information is a different matter. " "I've been on-line for about 15+ years, so am fairly familiar with the 'problem'. " " "so am" What's that? Is it a typo or poor grammer? Perhaps this goes against the scout law? " Please see my comment above about reporting on other's typos/grammer. You seem to not understand that on-line communication is not quite like formal written communication. Many people put down in what they type what they would say. On-line communication is more akin to spoken communication in that sense. " "I've been on-line for about 15+ years" So, what's the point. I too have been online a while. Being familiar with the problem and not taking a stand against the problem means what in 15+ years? Perhaps taking a stand against being mean and rude happens after the 16th year, 17th year, 18th year, etc. " Let me try to make it clearer. You see the problem as people being mean, rude, etc. While there are rude people on-line, I don't see that as the major issue. I think there are fewer rude people in these forums then prehaps you do (the Issues Forum being the exception ). I see the problem as a lack of understanding about what is/is not acceptable in on-line communication. A lot of what many on-line see as mean/rude behavior is too often a misperception of what is acceptable on-line behavior. And frankly, your followup posts are perfect examples of this. My statement was to point out my own experience in on-line communication (ie back up what I say by experience). I see no value in railing against perceived meanness/rudeness. I would prefer people educate themselves on what is/isn't acceptable behavior on-line (ie, 'netiquette'), then get into some crusade against 'on-line rudeness'. Here's an example from my own experiences. Back in the days of Netnews (aka Usenet), an acceptable way to response to people's posts would be to 'cut them up' into paragraphs or even sentences to comment on the particular points (agree, disagree, back up, refute, etc). [btw, this is also acceptable behavior in email lists] I had seen this for years, had others do this to my posts, done it to others posts, and so on. One time I did this with someone's post, and the guy freaked out. He obviously hadn't bothered to educate himself as to what is acceptable (just reading the groups should have done this), so this guy couldn't handle what was a widely accepted way of responding to others, and got majorly bent out of shape. In other words, he mistook perfectable acceptable behavior as some kind of attack. It wasn't. My own experience on this and most other on-line forum/discussion lists, etc, is that in most cases the people getting bent out of shape about claims of rudeness, etc, could have been avoided had those people educated themselves about netiquette. Those of us (like me) used to see this all too often when newbies came on-line. Usually around September when all the new college students (back in the days before the Internet was open to everyone) got their accounts at the begining of the year, and started accessing Usenet, email discussion lists, etc. There is also the very sensible recommendation that people should 'step back' from an email or posting and take a day before responding. Many times when we come back to such an item, we may find that we are overreacting, and this avoids a possible further issues.

What is a "dime club"?? Google wasn't a help.

"No, I speak of etiquette! If I was speaking of netetiquette, I would have stated netetiquette! I am speaking of good manners, being kind to others. " Its "netiquette", not "netetiquette". And netiquette IS etiquette. Its how to act properly (and what is acceptable) in on-line communications. Email. mailing lists/discussion lists. forums. all that stuff. A BIG problem is that on-line communication is different from face to face or phone conversation. And this difference causes a lot of problems to the newbie. On-line communication is more to the point. Some newbies think this is rudeness or harshness. Its not. A lot of this so-called 'bad manners' is just a misunderstanding on the part of people unfamiliar with on-line communication. I've been on-line for about 15+ years, so am fairly familiar with the 'problem'. And the points that "FScouter" makes is also important to keep in mind.

What you are speaking of is something that is called "netiquette" (net etiquette). The problem was always that newbies didn't know it, and too often broke it, as well as some newbies didn't understand how on-line discussions worked and thought they were being 'attacked' (or that people were being 'mean to them').

"I must say that the reason I steered clear of the OA is because it's dominated by haughty arrogant people " Some of the best people I know of in Scouting are actively involved in the OA (and Wood Badge and ...). I have not found that the 'haughty arrogant people' dominate the OA (at least in my area). This isn't to say that these sort aren't in the OA, or seem to dominate certain areas. (I would even say there seem to be too many of this type in certain areas of the OA, but not overall). But this is true in Scouting in general. Sadly, you will encounter such people in scouting. And sadly, you will find certain groups and areas that they dominate. But its wrong to say that they dominate everywhere or in all groups.

"WOW, I didnt realize NOAC was being held at a major university," ALL NOACs have been held at major universities. "Where will they be camping?" they won't be. Everyone stays in the dorms, hence why its at a major university. "You mean the Boy Scout Honor Society, the organization that has as one of its goal the promotion of camping is housing its staff in Dorms?" Everyone stays in dorms. Were else might you put up 5-7 thousand people? This isn't the Jamboree. were would you have all the training sessions held, etc??

I found this page in the Boy Scout section that list the 8 methods: http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-503.html I think we can chalk this up to discrepencies in the webpages.

To add to my comments. When I received my staff beads a couple of years ago, I found that the leather thong is thicker then my participant beads I got 15 years ago. I actually like my old bead thong better, but I put it away and wear my new staff beads. The stuff from Gilwell is nice. I was given a leather woggle from Gilwell from our ASM-TG. Very nice, with a nice saddle leather smell. It went in my box with the rest of my WB stuff. I also like the fact they have presentation items such as the portfolio with the neckerchiefs, leather bag for the woggle, presentation box for the beads. All these would make nice presentation items for new WBers, staffer, CDs.

In terms of current groups, there are several. There are only 2 councils that do not have OA lodges. They use Tribe of Tahquitz (Long Beach) and Tribe of Mic-O-Say (Pony Express). Several councils have groups alongside the OA: Firecrafts, Mic-O-Say, Wolfeboro Pioneers, and several MOS-based groups. Here are two sites with info on these groups: Scout Honor Societies (past and present): http://usscouts.org/usscouts/honorsociety/honorscout.html MOS-based groups: http://www.flyingember.com/mic.html

AFAIK, you should be purchasing the neckerchief, woggle, beads and certificate from National Supply. You can also purchase them from the UK Scout association. There is a website you can use: http://www.sbuk.org.uk/info.centre/catalog.php?cat=190 But these may be more costly then the ones from National Supply.

"So enlighten us as to what the issue here was?" Agree. this is one thing I have yet to see.

"Never knew there were medals for tenure knots or the like." 'tenure knots'?? There is no such thing. Service stars show your tenure in scouting. They are training awards. Tenure only plays a part in their requirements. The medals are the awards, the knots are the every day uniform wear for them. You are probably not aware of the medals as they are only worn at formal occasions, if that.

Well, I will only add this. My first exposure to traveling with proper uniform et al was when I attended the 1981 National Scout Jamboree. That is were I learned the terms 'class A', 'class B', etc. All 'council' level scouting trips from then on, in councils I've dealt with (OA sectional events, jambo, high adventure, etc etc) have all followed this. (I had never heard this before in my troop, but after this my troop pretty much followed this). Neckerchiefs, for the most part, aren't very popular in my area. Most don't wear them, unless they are required to. For me, its been the couple times at Jambo I was required to wear them, and as required for Wood Badge. We always traveled in 'class B' (what most now call 'field uniform'). For those who don't know, this is: * Scout shorts (long pants not acceptable) * scout-related t-shirt * scout belt (web or leather, either fine) * scout socks We would wear these will on the bus, in the vehicles, etc. Once we got off (for a meal, do touring, arriving at destination, etc), we put on our scout uniform shirts (which we had hanging nearby) thus 'transforming' into a 'class A' (aka 'full uniform'). Shirts were to buttoned and tucked in. unbuttoned/untucked shirts were not acceptable. We (the youth) understood this. All the youth I've dealt with since then understand this, and we've never had a problem with this. Most of the kids have been involved long enough that they really don't have to be told to get into class a, they know they need to. end of story. (now, on a related note, I AM annoyed by all the kids I see now a days who don't seem to understand how to wear the web belt properly or a neckerchief. who the heck is teaching these kids this stuff...)

SR540Beaver pretty much said what I was going to. One thing they DO get sticky about at most scout camps is the wearing of 'open toed shoes/flip flops' around camp. My experience is that its usually at events such as National Jamboree, NOAC (they seemed to have gotten very picking about everyone being in full uniform most of the time), and OA Sectional Events that they expect ONLY full and field uniforms, and nothing else, during the entire event.

People have their beading at an event that is meaningful to THEM. I've seen a lot at roundtables, but have seen it done at camporees, district dinners, woodbadge breakfasts/reunions, university of scouting, troop meetings, etc. One patrol in my course worked to all complete their tickets around the same time, and the whole group got beaded during a camporee (at a separate event, so to speak, to not take away from the main goings on).

The way it was taught to me, and which is usually how it goes here in Florida, the "field uniform" (which some call 'class b') consists of the following: * a scout-related t-shirt * scout shorts * scout belt * scout socks * scout-related hat If its 'any type of short', how can it be a 'field uniform'? And any scout-related t-shirts are ok. Doesn't have to be a troop t-shirt, doesn't have to be the camp t-shirt. Also, your camp's request is not unusual. That's pretty typical of all camps I'm aware of.

Maybe this will help. Its been awhile since I was directly involved in OA elections, but am pretty sure this is how it goes. An election team from your lodge, made up of 2-3 youth will come to your troop meeting. This should have been arranged in advanced, not a surprise, etc. (you need a majority of your troop youth members present). The election team will confir with the Scoutmaster as to the candidates for election. Candidate must meet the following requirements: * First Class Scout * 15 days & nights of camping, including ONE long-term (6 days) camping experience. all camping must be Boy Scout Camping (ie, no camping trips with family), the long term is USUALLY summer camp, but need not be with your council's summer camp. A long term camping trip with the troop counts. * Scoutmaster approval. (as noted by LongHaul, this should be for the right reasons, not so the scoutmaster can 'stake the deck' with his/her favorites). Once this list is prepared, its usually a good idea for the team to make this list of candidates know to the boys. Putting it up on a flip chart helps. The team should then explain what the OA is, and how the elections are run. This is vital, especially if your troop has no arrowmen (which I'm assuming from your posting), and may not fully understand the OA. National has a great video for this that hopefully they will show. They should make it clear that the first duty of an Arrowman is TO HIS TROOP. The Troop comes first. They should NOT vote for their favorites, but for those they feel exempliefies the scouting spirit. those they would want to camp with. Voting is by secret ballot. Each scout is given a ballot form and may vote for AS MANY CANDIDATES AS THEY WANT. None, one, some, all. Candidates must get a majority of votes to be elected in. IF a scout does not feel they know any of the candidates well enought to vote for any, they SHOULD NOT TURN IN A BALLOT. This will not count against anyone. Turning in a blank ballot will. The election team will collect the ballots, determine who was elected and note this on the election form that will be turned in to the Lodge. I do not know what the policy is now regarding letting the scoutmaster know who won (we did when I was involved in this), nor if we tell the troop who won (we never did, they found out when the calling out occured). So someone else may want to add this in. If a troop elects any youth members, I believe that the troop is allowed to nominate one adult per 50 youth members in the troop. If your scoutmaster is not an Arrowman, I personally feel he should be the one your troop nominates. But that's up to your troop. I'm not fully knowledgable about this process. Further nominations can come from the district/council, btw. Hope this helps. BTW, a 'majority' is just more then half. "half plus one", "50% plus one", or "51%" are all incorrect.

" interested in working on the Ranger Award- then possibly the Bronze Outdoor." Actually, you have that backwards. The Outdoor Bronze is actually half of Ranger. While working toward Ranger, they will in fact earn the Outdoor Bronze. Yes, Venturers can use the stuff they do for Outdoor Bronze to count toward merit badges and Eagle. There are rules about double credit and what is/is not allowed. You might want to get a copy of the Advancement Requirements book, that can help. Your Star Scout can earn Life & Eagle in the Crew. Its quite do able. I think that what you propose to do is a good idea, I have not heard of anyone putting together any kind of match between Boy Scout requirements & Ranger/B/G/S requirements. So you might be breaking new ground. I do have a word of caution. Be sure that your Venturers are in agree with this. A big difference between Venturing & Boy Scouting is that while a troop program is expected to be geared around advancement, a crew program isn't. IF the Venturers want to do so, that's fine. They need to decide to what level will the crew organize itself around working on these awards. All of the the time, some or little. This can avoid issues in the crew.

There seems to be some confusion as to the OA election process. There are NO nominations. There are requirements for boys to be candidates for election. Long Haul has given them, but there is ALSO approval of the Scoutmaster. All the boys who are candidates for election are put forth to ALL the youth members of the troop to vote on. Any boy who gets a majority of votes is now an ordeal candidate for the OA. You will need an OA election team from your Lodge to come in a run the elections (usually this is done at the chapter level, but who knows with your lodge). It may ALSO be a good idea (considering your scoutmaster is NOT an arrowman) to have your lodge send a group to your troop before hand to explain this both to the boys and to your leaders. There is both the issue of the boys understanding what the OA is before they vote on the candidates, and the issue of adult candidates to the OA (which is always a confusing matter). I don't know how organized your lodge is. There is a video tape that the National OA has for this purpose, hopefully they will use it. Btw, the OA has a VERY nice website. You might want to read over it. Some useful pages are the ones on OA Basic Info (http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/misc/basics/) and the FAQ (http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/qanda/). The OA election process can be very confusing to the non-member, and the adult selection process is even more confusing.