Eamonn

In past jamborees there has been a participant patch that is worn over the pocket on the right hand side. There has been a souvenir patch that I suppose could be worn as a temporary patch. There has also been a participant hat and neckerchief and a souvenir hat and neckerchief. You can spend last months pay check in the trading post on souvenirs if that is what you want to do. The cost of the jamboree is $595.00. Other costs that are passed on to the participants will include travel costs. While it may not seem fair, it only makes sense that those who are coming from further away end up paying more.Some council contingents plan sight seeing tours on the way to or from the Jamboree. And some even plan these ahead unlike the contingent that Proud Eagle was part of. Last time we had a VIP tour of the Pentagon. In part thanks to one of the leaders having a sister in law that worked there. We had planned this and done the paper work months in advance. Some councils include all sorts of "Add ons" as part of the Jamboree fee. We include tee shirts, jamboree CSP that the Scouts can use for trading, equipment costs and the cost of shipping the equipment to and from the site.The training / Shake down weekend costs, troop number patches, food costs while traveling, Council office costs. I have never attended NOAC. I think the cost is $350.00 plus the costs that the Lodge passes on to those attending. Please don't quote me but I think that our Lodge has come up with a cost of $600.00 per person. As far as I know and I could be wrong attendance at NOAC is about 7,000. I sure as heck wouldn't want to organize an event for 7,000. But it seems that the big colleges can accommodate this number. I have never seen a break down on the costs incurred setting up AP Hill for the Jamboree. However just thinking of the services that are needed to accommodate over 40,000 is enough to scare the shorts off me. Shower houses that have to be built and then taken down. The garbage bill? The rental of the portable toilets and their upkeep. Building the Action areas and the cost of providing the equipment that they use. The list goes on. While the expense might seem high. Our council started recruiting early enough that the cost worked out at saving a $1.00 a day. There was funding available from National and from the council. We offer the opportunity to fund raise for those who want too. Last time we have a good number of Scouts who raised over the entire cost. Lads over 16 can apply to go on the youth staff. My son has and the cost is only $250.00. He does have to make his own travel arrangements. I'm sorry Proud Eagle,but I don't understand what you mean by "If the Jamboree was open to as many people as could pay." There are a lot of people in this area that could pay to go to Heinz Field to watch the Steelers. But can't get a ticket. Should they be allowed to pay their money and just pile in? Of course not. The 50 mile rule wouldn't be needed if everyone played by the rules? So maybe it is "Moronic" That an organization that is made up of members who have taken the Scout Oath and live by the Scout Law can't be trusted to do so. If they did then the staff wouldn't have to do a better job of keeping visitors out of the participant areas. Eamonn

Sounds like a winner to me. By the way Welcome to the forums. Eamonn

And to think that all these years I thought that we kept Scouting close to our hearts. "I've got that Scouting spirit all over me" Now has new meaning. Just don't let it show in Louisiana. Or you could end up in hot water. Eamonn

If you are thinking of staying at a near by hotel you might want to see about making reservations now as you can imagine with so many parents and other Scouter's the local hotels fill up very quickly. As for camping near by. I think that National has asked that no tour permits will be allowed within fifty miles from the jamboree site. I am not sure how that works. Eamonn

What is this talk about $10.00 ? As far as I know (And I just looked at the web page) There is no charge for visitors. In fact the hours for visiting the Jamboree are extended on the days of the opening and closing shows. The firework display at the closing is worth at least $10.00. You can of course visit the trading post and buy all sorts of souvenirs. You can visit all the displays and catch the daily shows. What irks me is the Troops that attend and sign up for merit badges or want to participate without having paid the jamboree fee. Imagine how you would feel if a group of Scouts came to visit a Summer camp each day and didn't pay, but they signed up for all the activities to the extend that everything was filled and the campers couldn't participate. To my mind this is the same as stealing. Then there is the example that is being set by the leaders who allow this to happen. Eamonn

Our Lodge has Wagion Lodge 6 boxers for sale. OJ wears them with his Soccer Boots Eamonn

Over the weekend I ran into an old friend of mine. We got to talking about what our sons were up to. This friend said that his son wanted him to put a pool table in the family room. He said that he took his son down to the basement and they stopped in front of several boxes. He said that the first box contained his sons' old Nintendo and games. The Nintendo cost about $60.00 and the tapes cost about $20.00 each. He said in the box there was about forty tapes. He Went to say that he explained to his son that the next box contained the Nintendo 64. Which at the time his son couldn't live without. The machine cost about $100.00 and the tapes cost about $30.00 each. There was about thirty games. The last box had the Play Station which cost cost $200.00 and had been replaced by the Play Station 2.This was now in his son's bedroom but wasn't getting much use. My friend was using this to explain the reason why he wasn't going to buy a pool table. In my case I have a son who has feet that grow at a great rate of knots. He plays soccer and is on the track team. When he first stated playing soccer we could get away with going to Pay Less and his soccer boots cost under $20.00. Now the price tag is over $100.00. We didn't get into the video games, instead I bought him his own lap top computer and we have a wireless network at home. The soccer boots last about a season if we are lucky. There are other add ons that he "Has to have" Shin guards, bags, balls, the list goes on. My feeling is that I don't tell anyone how to spend their money and I don't need anyone to tell me how to spend mine. He is a Boy Scout. Uniform is part of being a Boy Scout. The Uniform is the Uniform and I don't have the right to start making changes to it!! I do agree that some of the prices seem a little steep. But then again the soccer boots aren't cheap. I don't know how much money we spend a year on Scouting. I do happen to think that when I look at the amount of time my son spends Scouting and all the good stuff that he is getting out of the program. It is the best value in town. Please don't try and change the rules, cheapening the program doesn't make it any better.I know that in our District we will find the cash to help anyone that needs a helping hand. However units that even try to play by the rules only hurt the entire program. Eamonn

Information about visiting the jamboree can be found on the web site in the staff guide book. While I think that visiting the jamboree is a great idea. I have to admit to being upset at the troops that visit and try to sneak in on the activities. This isn't fair to the Scouts who paid to attend. Eamonn

If there is a job opening for a Ladies Thong Watcher, I will quit working for the Uniform Police and take up Thong Enforcement!! I was going to ask if it was an Undercover Job, but I thought that was just too easy. Of course if Her That Must Be Obeyed found out I don't think that I would last long. Eamonn

Re. The Lad who has lost interest. Just for a minute forget that he is your son. Then ask yourself what would you do if he was some other Lad who was doing or not doing the same thing? Now take another minute and forget that you are the Scoutmaster and think what you would do if your son was losing or had lost interest? Sometimes the hardest Lad to communicate with is the one that lives with us. Sometimes they feel that we are on their back and pushing too hard. Sometimes we they are right and we as parents who are also in the program set unrealistic goals for our sons. These goals are our goals and might not be what they want. My son is 16 in July. He has been a Life Scout for over a year. All the merit badges are done, the project has been approved, the project planning is done and we do have bursts of enthusiasm that don't last long and so far have not resulted in anything. OJ, is just too busy. He has so much going on that the project keeps getting put on the back burner. If he came up to me and informed me that he wanted to quit (Which at this time I don't see happening.) I would try and find the right time and the right place, making sure that I was in a good mood and was focused on him. Then I would ask him why? I would really listen to him. I wouldn't allow myself to bring up any of the negative stuff that I know. None of the "Your Lazy." Or the "You never do such and such". Once he was done I would ask him what can the troop do to make things better? I might remind him about some of the things that he liked doing. In OJ's case the OA, camping,and his pals in Scouting. As a parent I would talk to the Scoutmaster even if the Scoutmaster is yourself and see what can be done to accommodate the needs of this Lad who is losing interest. If it seems that this troop can't meet his needs maybe there is another troop or maybe even a Venture Crew that might relight the fire. Maybe there is someone else who might do a better job of talking about Scouting to your son. My best friend is heavily into Scouting and a Council vice president. He and OJ are very close. I know that OJ respects him and maybe would open up to him more then me. I also know that Mike would do all that he could to keep OJ in Scouting, even if that meant telling me some home truths that I might not want to hear. Maybe that's why he is my best friend. I hope everything works out. Good Luck. Eamonn

We set the pictures that were taken on our Wood Badge course to "It's In Every One Of Us - Wood Badge Spirit" . We took orders and sold the disk at $10.00. All the materials were donated by a very good looking course director who talks funny!! We made over $700.00 Eamonn

I really would like to see Venturing become as big a part of Scouting (BSA) As Boy Scouting and Cub Scouting is. Having been through a Venturing program as a youth in the UK. I know that it can work. In my opinion and it's only an opinion. I will of course follow the guidelines of the organization and play by the rules. We have several things that are preventing the program from being as good as it should / could be. First we need to stop allowing Boy Scouts to be in both programs. This is hurting both the troops and the Crews. To my mind, asking a 14 year old Lad to be in a Troop and a Crew is too much for him to manage. At 14, most Lads have just managed to come to grips with what being a Scout is all about. We would serve him better if we really gave him all the skills needed to participate in a real High Adventure program. We could do this if we really used the patrol method in the Troop and put some real meat on the Venture Patrol program. Which I happen to think needs a new name, having a Venture Patrol in the Troop and a Venturing program is confusing. Let's stop mudding the waters with the Areas of Interest. We could achieve much the same thing by offering choices in the advancement area. In our district we have seven crews, all are supposed to be High Adventure. Most have adult leaders who were/are ASM's. These ASM's have the best intentions in the world and do care about the kids in the program. However, they have not been trained to deliver the activities that the program implies. I have never attended Powder Horn and have to admit to not knowing very much about it. I do think that we need to take the adults in the Venturing program and give them practical hands on training. Don't tell them where to go to get practical experience, they can get that information from the yellow pages. Take them and teach them a skill and let them come back again to get more proficient in that skill or come back to learn another skill. This training could be offered by the Region. Once we get leaders who can deliver a real high adventure program and the Crew members receive it, I would hope that in time when these Lads and Lassie's get the basics they can become able to pass on their knowledge and take training to become the instructors. As for female members, I am all for coed crews.Not so very long ago other then Den Mothers, all females in Scouting were not rated as highly as the male members. Hopefully and thankfully, this is no longer the case.Still once we view Venturing as its own stand alone program, who cares what the old fuddy-duddy members of other programs feel? We do need to bring in female leaders, not just a name on a charter. I'm not sure why, but the females that we have as youth members in the district seem to be more active then the males!! Still if we are unable to provide a real program it makes no never mind if the youth are male or female. I have heard that there are Scouting programs in some colleges. We need to do all we can to strengthen this while allowing and promoting multiple registration with the "Home Crew". This year there have been changes made in the qualifications needed to become a Quality District(No more 2% growth.) This will I hope prevent some of the creative manipulation of the Venturing program. While there are Crews that are doing an outstanding job of delivering the program. My big fear is that we have a lot that are doing next to nothing with most of the membership really being or belonging to the Boy Scouts. Venturing like all the programs in Scouting works best when the program is delivered by quality leaders. I look at the district that I'm in and the packs and troops that have trained quality leaders are the ones that seem to have the membership and the program. The youth in these units also seem to have the most fun. I think the same is true of Venturing. Eamonn

Nice Job. Me thinks you might want to look at the timing. You might need to have some more material on hand and ready to go. Eamonn

As a District I'm pleased to say that Camp Fires are alive and well. They are planned and run by the SPL's. The first time we tried it the District Commissioner got in the way a bit. But a trip behind the wood shed soon put him right. Poor fellow spend too much time in the Cub Scout program. Sad to say that the Parents Night Camp Fire at summer camp is gone,replaced by a anything that floats race. We did bring it back a couple of years back for the summer of the camps diamond anniversary, using guest MC's. I MC'd a couple. Great fun. The Council has Parent Son weekends at camp during the summer each district takes a weekend. We have a great time. It could be that I'm growing old or growing up, but the fires seem smaller now then they once did. The Summer that I first came over to work on Camp Staff, we planned an opening ceremony where the Wicked Witch of the West set fire to the Scarecrow, this poor Lad had to run as fast as he could to light two big fires. Finding a suitable volunteer wasn't easy. As luck would have it the then Council Presidents son was also on staff - Need I say more. (Please note this was 1977 and if the was a guide to safe Scouting we never seen it.) Eamonn

Ron, With all due respect. Are you yanking our Chain? I have sat through hundreds and hundreds of meetings. But for the life of me I can't imagine anyone engaging in a dialog such as you describe. I agree with NeiLup. If I were a member of the troop and this was the rule I would have to resign. Eamonn

Trying to make sense of senseless violence, doesn't make sense. My thoughts and prayers are with the family. While it is not up to us to judge these people only God can do that. We can only help the judgment to come sooner, rather then later. Eamonn

Maybe the ACLU will be so busy with the BPB (Baggy Pants Bill) They will give the BSA a rest. Eamonn

The Louisiana House Criminal Justice Committee has approved House Bill 1626, also known as the "Baggy Pants Bill". The Bill states: "It shall be unlawful for any person to appear in public wearing his pants below his waist and thereby exposing his skin or intimate clothing." The Bill if passed would make the violator subject to three eight-hour days of community service and a fine of up to $175.00. Could this community service time be counted as Service Time? I was going to state that this posting was tongue in cheek - But we won't even go there. Still I kind of think that FOG might support this Bill? Eamonn

I for one Love the good old USA and the people who live here. My son is as proud an American as you will find. I can't help thinking of my Irish Grandmother. In the living room of the farm house was a small shelve lit by a small red electric light bulb. The filament was in the shape of a cross. On the shelve there were statues of the Scared Heart, the Blessed Virgin,Saint Bridget, Saint Martin and a plate with a picture of JFK. Both my grandparents would on a regular basis kneel and say the rosary in front of this shelve. Somehow I think that Teddy wouldn't make the shelve. Not anti-American, not Anti-Kennedy, just Anti-Teddy, Eamonn

I have sat back watching this post. Mainly because at times I see competition as healthy and something that has been as big a part of Scouting as using knots and lashings. Then I have seen it used badly and the end product was poor winners and bad losers. Looking at myself I know that I'm not a good loser. I hate to lose.At times I dress this up by telling everyone,even myself that "I'm goal orientated." But I tend to look at the goal as the finish line and I want to be there and I like to be there first. When I was a young Scoutmaster in London, the district held a lot of competitions. I was very guilty of using the troop to feed my ego.I chose the teams and only the best Lads got to compete. If and when we didn't win the Scouts were very upset, not only because they hadn't won but also because they had let me down.It took me a few years to work on that and get it right. I have coached Soccer teams and have to admit that when my team went on the field the aim was to win. No ifs Andi's or but's that team went on the field to score more goals then the other team. I have seen Cub Scouts get very upset when their car lost in a Pinewood derby. I hate to see a little Lad in tears. But no matter what the prize is there is going to be winners and there are going to be losers. Our local soccer club has now started playing games for the very young players where there is no goal keeper and no score keeping. This seems like a good idea until you talk to the players, you bet that they know how many goals they scored and you bet if Tom got six and Fred got ten, Fred will let him know it. At troop meetings I have used games to reinforce a Scouting skill. Like it or not when it comes to advancement, one sure way to spur a Lad along is to have him watch his pal get ahead of him. Competition is a useful tool but it has to used carefully. While I do not agree with fixing the results (Yes there have been times when it has been suggested that we fix things, in order that everyone wins.) I am guilty of fixing the competition in order to highlight a skill that someone might have.(A patrol that might never win a race would win hands down at a quiz.) I think that the bottom line is that competition is fine as long as it's done within the confines of the Scout Oath and Law. Eamonn

As it seems that everybody is in agreement that Re-testing is a definite no. It would seem that we would also agree that we would follow the Four Steps to Advancement. 1/ A Scout is Taught (Trained) 2/ A Scout is Tested. 3/ A Scout is Reviewed 4/ A Scout is Recognized. If the Scoutmaster feels that there is a problem with steps one and two, he might do well to take the time to look at the program. How are we training the Scouts? Sure a Lad can sit in the church hall with a couple of old frayed bits of rope and learn how to tie a knot. Once mastered he can show the fruits of his labor to the designated knot tester. Who we hope knows one knot from another and bingo, that's done and the Lad moves on to the next requirement. Surely we do better a better job when we make learning any skill fun and exciting and where possible challenging. Learning to tie a knot that is going to be used as part of a pioneering project, brings the learning to life. It also makes BOR's a lot more interesting. The skills that a Scout masters on the way to First Class do lay the ground work for bigger and better activities to come. I have seen older Scouts hang back and not join in because they never mastered these skills. That is such a shame. It is also very important that the person who signs off knows what he or she is doing and has the confidence to know what is acceptable. The requirements are very clear.So there isn't room for argument. If the Patrol Leader or SPL is signing off he really does need to know what the standard is and how to do whatever the skill is. We also need to make a much bigger deal of recognizing the Scout. Recognition should be given when ever possible. Not just for the big steps but for the small ones as well. The young Lad who has came from the Webelos Scout den, is used to being recognized at nearly every pack meeting with a pin of some sort. We need to give him a pat on the back as often as we can. Even if it's only mentioning his name at the troop meeting for passing one requirement. Or one line in the troop newsletter. Eamonn

I was in a waiting room last week and ended up reading an old magazine that was intended for women. I can't remember which one it was. One article was about the Baby Boomer's. It said that generation known as the Baby Boomer's was too big and that there was a new group known as the "Joneses." It so happens that if there is such a group I would fall into it. The Joneses were a little too young to be part of the Summer of Love and protest the war in Vietnam War. From what I have read one of the characteristics of the Baby Boomer's is that they question everything. The article I was reading didn't say if this rang true for the Joneses. I can't speak for an entire generation I can only speak for me. I have at different times questioned all sorts of things and like to think that I am not a person who follows blindly. There are times when like it or not there are rules, which are just there. Rules that while they don't sit well with me, or don't seem to make sense are still the rules. At times I have not only questioned the rules, I have tried to have the rules changed. There of course been times when the rule was not enforced and while still on the books it became meaningless. In Scouting there are some rules that I in my infinite wisdom deem as useless.There are things that I don't like. I do have very serious concerns about people who break rules. While it is OK to ask why. It is wrong to go ahead and break the rules. We as adults in Scouting are charged to lead by example. What might seem as only a game of paint-ball or laser tag, when you know it is not a BSA activity is sending the message that it is OK to not follow the rules. Adults not wearing the approved uniform is not a hanging offense, but what message is it sending to the youth that look to us for the example? I don't have a problem with people who say that they can't remain in Scouting because there is a rule that makes it impossible to remain in Scouting and if these people want to start their own youth group, more power to them. I have a big problem with people who send the wrong message to the youth that they are supposed to be leading within the guidelines of the BSA. Eamonn

If I was the Scoutmaster and I asked someone to cover something that was in the Scout Handbook and the person I asked pointed out that material in the Handbook was outdated and could provide a reference I think I would have to go along with the up to date material. I would hope that whoever was doing the presentation would clear it with me first.I would also hope that once the person started the presentation I would have enough faith in the person that I asked to let them get on with the job. If I didn't have this faith why would I have asked them in the first place. Of course if the person took it upon himself to go ahead and do his own thing without clearing it, I would be upset. I wonder if the person doing the presentation had been a doctor if the ASM would have corrected him ? If the material in the Handbook is outdated, I would think that when the next edition comes out it will be updated. If that is the case what harm is there in having that information now? Eamonn

Your profile isn't telling me much about you. Any way, sometimes it's not what you know, it's in the way you make your point. If you are asked to go over the first aid requirements for the Tenderfoot Rank and you know before you start that the material in the Scout Handbook is out of date. You really should inform the person who asked you to make the presentation that you will be presenting the new material and where you got it from. Better still you could show him or her the new material in black and white. This would save a lot of embarrassment all round.Also when you do present the material, it's not a good idea to say that what is in the handbook is wrong. It is far better to explain that it was right however it has been up dated and the new way is ... You can then use this as an example of making sure that you do everything possible to keep up to date with the ever changing material. Eamonn

I can't help asking what are you trying to save? Sure you can welcome the male members of the Crew back into the troop as Boy Scouts and as Boy Scouts they can be a Venture Patrol. Being that they would be Boy Scouts they would follow the Boy Scout program. I feel very strongly that the Boy Scout program is just that and any group "Tagging Along." Can only harm the program. If the Crew is to survive it has to do so by itself. The Crew needs to go about selecting new adult leadership. Sad to say if the Chartered Organization and the committee can't find someone then the crew will not be able to recharter and will close. Females can not be youth members of the troop. Sure adults can serve in both just as some adults serve in both a Cub Scout Pack and a Boy Scout Troop. However I think mixing a troop and a crew is not such a good idea. Eamonn