Eamonn

Dan Over the years I have taken a great number of Scouts to camp. We camped all over the world, so sending a Lad home was at times not an option. I like to think that we as leaders don't lead by threatening the Lads entrusted into our care. As we progress through our Scouting careers and our "Real Life" careers and deal with all the challenges that come our way there will be things and activities that we are not over the moon about. For a young Scout who goes on the hike, when he wasn't thrilled about going in the first place there is a "Life Lesson". For those that are to the Leaders there is a real lesson in leadership. It doesn't take a lot of skill to lead people in something that everyone wants to do. While it is true in almost all walks of life that there is the ultimate threat. My boss can fire me, I can go to jail,you will be sent home. Still the idea of leadership by threat in Scouting doesn't sit well with me. The new Wood Badge course offers adults a lot of Leadership tools which when used allow the Leaders to set a good example of how to lead. Youth members should not be allowed to discipline other youth members in any way even if it is only Making the wash dishes. If the Scoutmaster feels that there is a the need for some sort of disciplinary action he or she ought to pass the matter on to the Troop Committee. In most cases situations like the one described here can be resolved by the Scoutmaster conferencing with the Scout. Eamonn

Thanks OGE, your a good chap. I thought about you last night there was a program on PBS on regional breweries in PA.The program visited the Lion Brewery.Strange to find a brewery that make soda pop. Eamonn

And your feelings toward the Chaplain Service are? Eamonn

Advancement in the Crews that we have in the District is almost nonexistent. To the best of my knowledge we have had one Ranger Award in the District and I think that is the one and only in the Council. I don't think that you will be surprised when I say that it was awarded to a female Crew Member. IMOHO, This might be because most of the Males are still in Boy Scout Troops.The young Lass hails from the Crew that has the Assistant District Commissioner Venturing as its charter rep. This crew is more girls then boys and they seem to want to use the advancement program more then the all male crews. Most of the all male Crews have an Ex-Assistant Scoutmaster as the adviser and claim to be High Adventure. At times I think that the little fellows who wear the blue uniform are having more adventures. We do have a new Crew that will start up soon. The Chap who is going to be the Adviser is a high school teacher who is really into outdoor stuff so I have great hopes for him and hope that when the other crews see what he is up to that they will be shamed into doing more. Eamonn

I don't agree. I have a friend who goes into High Schools as part of the Learning for Life program he gives talks on being a diesel mechanic. While he might influence some of the youth to want to become Diesel mechanics one doesn't necessarily follow the other. Then of course there is the question of the applications, For a youth to join a troop or a pack his parents would have to choose to fill out the application. HUD didn't have any anything to do with that. So why sue HUD? Eamonn

Some of the atheists who post here seem to have made trying to get the BSA to change its policy on God / Supreme Being their mission in life. I was wondering, do you people only have it in for the BSA? Are you also putting as much effort into fighting for the abolishment of the Chaplain Service in the United States Military? Are you fighting the establishment of the White House office of faith-based and community initiatives? Eamonn

If we look at the Scope of Services and see that Membership of the BSA isn't a requirement. It would seem to me that someone is missing the point. Eamonn

Some time back OGE posted a really good way of getting through a Annual Planning meeting. Maybe If we ask him nicely he will post it again or he will point us to it. It really showed how the PLC could come up with a plan that worked. Eamonn

While I have never been part of the entire process the last time we hired a Scout Exec. We let the Region know that we needed the position filled. The Executive Board selected a group to be the Selection Committee. I'm not sure how the applications came to the Selection Committee?? But the Selection Committee reviewed the applications, making a list of those that they would like to interview. From there it was an interview process until the selection committee made their selection. They then reported to the Board who voted on their selection. The Scout Exec. serves the board they hire him or her. He reports to them and working with the Council President and the Council Commissioner is part of the Council key 3. While we might from time to time moan and groan about the Scout Exec. It is worth remembering that it was the volunteers who hired him or her. We would of course like to think that the selection committee would choose a person who will lead the council to greatness!! However it sometimes happens that the selection committee will look at the council and the soft spots and then hire a person who shows past experience in dealing with strengthening up these soft spots. If a council is showing signs of losing membership the selection committee might look at candidates that show good results in other positions building up membership.In our case the Selection Committee was looking for a person with a good track record in fund raising. Eamonn

A couple of quick questions. 17 Scouts out of over 80? This ought to be looked at as a red flag? Not so long ago you posted that you had 25 new Scouts are you using the NSP? Do you have an annual plan? I used to be the Scoutmaster of a very large troop, when it grew to over 85, I found it was just too much for me to manage even with six very active ASM's.Of course every situation and leader is different. If possible you might want to see if your Council is offering a JLTC course this summer and see if some of your Scouts can attend. PNScouter makes some very valid points.While it might not always be possible for the schedule that the Scouts have and the schedule that the adults have to be the same.You might want to consider having events for the NSP's and separate events for the Venture Patrol? As well as events for the entire troop. There is a very big difference when the PLC plans the event and when the PLC approves the event. Eamonn

I'm sorry OneHour your analogy left me in the dark. We would never leave a Scout stumbling around in the dark. As adults we never vacate our responsibility to be there for the Scout to help and support him. I think that we need to give the Lads a lot more credit then has been posted. I think that a Scout who knew that he wasn't going to attend troop meetings for a while due to football, track or whatever would take himself out of that election. As Scoutmaster, if we knew this Scout which I hope we would, I think that a word in his ear before the election would be fair. Something along the lines of "Hey John, do you think that you have the time to do that job well?" There is an entire list of POR's that meet this requirement.At the end of the day it comes down to treating the Scout as an individual and following the program. Eamonn

I was looking at page 10 of the pfd under Scope of Services. Eamonn

The Green Bar Web Site is a great place to look for information about the Patrol Method: http://www.greenbar.ws/index,cfm Eamonn

Hi and Welcome to the forums. Bob White is 100% right.Adding requirements to advancements is a real no, no. I'm sure that a lot of forum members will voice their personal opinions and yet again we will enter the discussions about rules and regulations.Some will say what they think is best for the troop. This may sound all well and good, but we are not in the business of what is good for the troop (When looking at Advancement.) We are in the business of look at what is best for the Scout as an individual. At the end of the day these personal opinions should have no bearings on delivery of the program, any rules, any policy,call it what you will that violates the BSA policy is just plain wrong. Eamonn

Dan I'm not sure what you want? Just as there is no such thing as the "Uniform Police," We don't have a "Program Police." Please believe me when I say that there are times when I wish there was. I will admit that there have been times when I have seen troops and packs where the Leadership could really benefit from a swift kick in the pants. Much as I hate to admit it there have been times when I have just waited for a unit to die or the leader to quit. There have been times when I have phoned or met with the CO and said that things have got to change or else. In fact over the weekend I received a shocking report about what one Scoutmaster is up to and the DE and I will be meeting with the CO next week to discuss it. Some little while back I asked the question "Do Scoutmasters get the troop they deserve?" In my experience the Scoutmaster that is delivering the program will see the fruits of his labors.The youth members are having fun and they want to bring their pals along. They stay in the program longer. People who understand the program and have taken the time to take the training's know what their role is and work well together, which results in less conflicts and less "Burn Out."Parents who see that their kid is getting something out of the program are more lightly to want to put something back into the program. Will we ever all be on the same page at the same time? I don't think so. 99.9% of the time the guys and girls from the Council and the District try to bring wrong doers into line by using friendly advise and persuasion. Where possible we try and nudge people into taking the training, we make them aware of where to find the resources that they need. I like to think that we set the example by how we look and how we act. Somehow I think that giving the wrong doers twenty lashes with a wet Wood Badge might tarnish our image. Eamonn

Question for the Gentleman from the State of New Jersey. I in no way claim to be Lord Denning reborn. However looking over the Hud / BSA suit. I see that membership of the BSA was not a requirement of the BSA getting the grant. They were contracted to do the Boy Talks and weekly programs. They were not paid to sign up these young people to join the BSA. This being the case doesn't that make the suit against HUD groundless? Just asking. Eamonn

Hi Welcome to the forums. It is sad when one Lad refuses to join in an activity that everyone else is doing. The $64,000.00 Question is why? Did this Lad know that a hike was going to be part of the program before he signed up for the camp? How was he feeling? Did something or somebody upset him? There is a lot of stuff that the PLC might want to reflect upon. As for you and the SPL trying to find a good punishment for this Lad. You guys are overstepping the mark. If this Lad was out of line? This needs to be handled by the Troop Committee. Please be very careful any attempt by you and the SPL to punish this Lad might be seen as hazing and that is very serious. You have to leave this up to the Troop Committee. Eamonn

Good Lad. I'm not sure how old you are, but I have had a lot of success cooling hot tempers over a cold one - Soda Pop works just as well. Eamonn

Paul Thanks for the kind words. I'm not that much of a TV fan. In fact all the fuss there has been about the final episodes of some of the shows has been lost on me, as I never seen a single episode to start with. I do when I'm not doing anything else watch the West Wing. There was an episode I think last season where the President walked to the Senate Building. Someone had the line: "What do you call a leader, when he has no one behind him? " "A guy taking a walk!!" I have seen a lot of people who thought that they were leaders end up as a "A guy taking a walk." Each of us can decide if we want to follow and allow the guy to be a leader or we can decide to just let him be the guy taking a walk. Eamonn

While I really shouldn't try to second guess what other people in the forum will say. I think that those that do post here will fall into one of two camps. One camp will tell you to be a good Scout and the other camp will tell you to keep as much distance between you and this guy as possible. I wish that I could put my hand on my heart and say that I get along with everybody and that they get along with me. Sad to say I can't. There are a couple of things that I have learned over the years. That you can make up your own mind as to their worth. Everyone deserves another chance.(In most cases)Dwelling in a negative past does no one any good, we can't manage the past we can plan for a positive future. There are a good number of people that I didn't think that much of because we had a history. However when we were faced with getting something done and shared in the vision of the completed task we managed to put the past behind and while we may not have ended up as close friends, by the end we both managed to admit that each of us had at least some good points. They say that confession is good for the soul. While I'm not in favor of rehashing old hurts. I do think that when you have to work with someone that you don't like a few words to clear the air are a good idea. Something along the lines of "Hey I know that we have had our ups and downs, but I hope we can put that behind us as we work on this project." Don't let your feelings get in the way of telling this guy when he has done a good job. When your friends say something that is putting this guy down. Stop them and tell them that you really don't want to hear it. Go out of your way to find this guy doing something right and tell him. What ever happens never let him know that you are losing it. When he is doing something that irks you to no end walk away count to whatever number you need to. When you have calmed down then discuss it with him in a calm way. The golden rule wasn't only written for the people that we like.Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Is for everyone. The same is true of the Scout Oath and Law, we aren't just Helpful to the people that we like. Eamonn

I think myself lucky that I don't have to make the decision what is and what isn't "Avowed". I would however think that anyone wearing this patch with full knowledge of what it stands for would make my deciding real easy. Eamonn

A little while back we lost a 16 year old who had been in the 2001 Jamboree Troop. A loss like this and your loss makes the world seem out of wack. OJ and I have just fought the "Why don't you read the instructions on the new weed eater" Wars. Seeing something like this makes it seem more then a little silly. I can only echo the sentiments that have been expressed. Eamonn

The Cremation of Sam McGee Chief Falling Rocks. Eamonn

I know that when I was younger, at times I acted very much like a bull in a china shop. I was so sure that I was always right, that when I saw something that I thought wasn't right or thought that something wasn't fair I started at the top and let everyone know how I felt. Sad thing was, I wasn't always right and at times in my desire to go to the top I missed communicating my grievance to the right people or the people who might have been able to fix what was wrong or inform me why I was wrong. Now of course I'm not so young and when people act this way it really upsets me. I am having a big problem with our District Commissioner, he just doesn't seem to want to follow procedure and I can only think that some of the stuff that he does is done to try and make him seem important. The truth is that it the end it makes him look foolish and at times puts the District in a bad light. The council offers camperships to families that help.If a family needs this help they can pick up a form fill in the details and send it into the Council Service Center. It then goes to the Council Camping Committee, where they make a decision.I have never sat on this committee and don't know how they reach a decision. As a District we have a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout leader who sit on the Council Camping Committee. It seems that a Den Leader from the District applied for a Campership for a Parent and Son weekend and the Council does not offer Camperships for Parent and Son weekends. This Den Leader is upset and sends the District Commissioner an E-mail saying that he is very upset and is going to quit. The District Commissioner sends out a mass E-mail to everyone including the Scout Exec. The Council President. The Council Commissioner. The Den Leader and the Cubmaster. He doesn't include the District Chair.(Me) Our DE. Or anyone on the Camping Committee. This E-mail is full of powerful stuff and is a real tearjerker. In it he has "He has always been there for me, where are we when he needs us?" and stuff like that. The Scout Exec. forwarded the E-mail to me asking what the heck is going on? He also forwarded it to the Council Camping Chair. (A nice chap who worked as a DE in another Council) He is more then upset he is mad. The E-mail that the District Commissioner has send is written all in Capital letters and is titled "Denial of Campership." Both these two think that I should be able to control the District Commissioner. In fact I have no knowledge about any of this. I phone the District Commissioner and inform him that he has managed to get everyone upset and that this Den Leader wasn't denied anything as it wasn't there to start with. The District Commissioner becomes ill and misses two key3 meetings.Yesterday he copies me on an E-mail that he has sent to the Den Leader. It is full of junk: "I wish that I had your application at hand and I would deal with it." and "I made my feelings known to the highest level.." Needless to say now I'm really upset with him. I call him on the phone and explain that this isn't the way to get things done and explain that if he has concerns that the District Committee is the place to bring them too. He starts telling me about his personal feelings. I am feeling like I want to tape up his mouth!!! He keeps on telling me how he feels. I inform him that so far he has by-passed the District Camping Committee, by-passed the District Committee. Managed to get the Council Camping Committee all riled up and achieved absolutely nothing. The Den Leader still isn't getting any help from the Council. If there is something wrong with the application form (Which I think there is.) It still hasn't been fixed. The District Camping Committee is mad at him and I'm about ready to ask the Nominating Committee to look for a replacement. E-mails and E-mailing is great. However thinking before hitting that "Send" button is a must. Eamonn

Dan Dear Lad, I think that you are a little out of line when you say that most of the people in the Forum don't follow or understand the program. I feel sure that if you are having a problem with understanding the Methods O Scouting that you will find a great number of people who are willing to help you. There are a lot of people who visit these forums when they have a question or need something clarified. Eamonn