
Eamonn
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Thinking about Advancement in Venturing made me think about membership. I have to admit to being an old fuddy-duddy. I am sick and tired of people telling me to "Think Out Of the box." Venturing has been hailed as the program that has the greatest potential for growth. I do not in any way disagree with that statement. I only have to look at what percentage of the total available youth of Venturing age that our District is reaching to see that there is room for improvement. When I look at the names of the youth in the Crews in the District, most of the Boys are also on the Troop Charter. Yet we count them twice. Thanks to some creative thinking at the Council level we have one Crew in a Juvenile Female Detention Center. This unit was supposed to be "Serviced" by an Americore volunteer. He was let go and our DE was told that she was to service this unit. It didn't seem to matter that she has no training in Venturing. When she arrived and met with these girls it turns out this was the first meeting this year. I'm not even going to question the fact that here we have a senior DE earning over $K doing a volunteers job? Last December in a last ditch effort to make Quality Council a couple of hundred Venturers were signed up as part of an in school program. They don't appear anywhere on any district membership report. None of the Districts made Quality District but the Council made Quality Council. While possible I find it very questionable. I have heard that we had a fifth district for a very short while. To be fair I think that one of the DE's is "Servicing" these "Crews" going into the schools once a month. But to my in the box thinking his ain't how we play the game. In another District we have a "Pack" that meets once a year. They meet at a local YMCA, the DE has a craft for these little guys and girls?? Provides Some bug juice and that's it till next year. Again I think that this is a nice idea but it's not Cub Scouting. Needless to say these units don't ever show any advancement. Last year the Council Pop Corn sales were down by 6%. Being as the Council Pop Corn Chair. Is the wife of one the Council VP's. There is an ongoing investigation as to why. We as a District did meet our goal but still we are being hounded by the Council to not only have a District Pop Corn Chair. But have lots of Pop Corn Chairs?? I fail to see how this will result in better sales but that is what they have come up with. When are the powers that be going to see that this creative thinking in membership is hurting the entire program? I am not a great lover of the LFL program, but if the program that we are trying to sell doesn't fit in the traditional programs lets put it in the LFL. Imaginary kids don't advance and they can't sell popcorn. Eamonn
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Bob While I agree with the idea that Advancement is the by-product of a good program. When I look at Venturing in our District I see that most of the Boys are still in the troop and maybe due to the mindset of adults the rank of Eagle Scout is still looked upon as being something that you do in the troop. Yes I know what the book says!! But to date we have never had a Venturer reach the rank of Eagle Scout in a Crew. Eamonn
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Position of Responsibility - actually doing something?
Eamonn replied to Fat Old Guy's topic in Advancement Resources
"...A Scout shows with with his position of responsibility signed off by his Scoutmaster but everyone knows that the Scout didn't do squat." OK, if I'm sitting on the Board. I would have to turn this Lad down. As long as I was sure that the goal that HE HAD SET, with the Scoutmasters approval hadn't been met. As a Troop Committee Member I would be very upset at the Scoutmaster. If he knows that the Lad hasn't met the requirements he has no business signing the requirement off as being done. Could be that he needs to be reminded about what his role in Scouting really is? Could be that the Troop Committee needs to talk to the CO about forming a selection committee to replace this Scoutmaster with someone who understands the program. Eamonn -
Hi and a very warm welcome to the forums. As you may have seen already, we have a very diverse group who at times allow their feelings on a subject cloud the fact that a Scout is Kind.Still at the end of the day most of those who post here have the good of our youth at heart. Eamonn
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Our District Training Chairs have made sure that each unit has a copy of the Fast Start Tapes. As these seem to get lost there are extras. The DE, the District Commissioner and the Training Team all have extra copies and I seem to have a garage full of tapes. The only thing that seems to disappear faster is the Guide that goes along with the tape and what's worse is that people don't ask for a replacement copy. So what seems to be happening is that the new guy is just given a tape to watch and that's that. While I like most, in fact nearly all of the suggestions that Twocub Dad has come up with. Here is an idea that I have been toying with. As I keep telling everyone I am a very lazy person. I only got involved as Cubmaster because it looked easy. The fact that I later got involved with a Webelos Scout Den, was totally unplanned. Now it could be that I was doing something wrong, but the guy who had even less to do then the Cubmaster was the Assistant Cubmaster.As I have posted we as a District seem to lose about half the Tiger Cubs that we recruit. I wonder what would happen if we done away with the position of Assistant Cubmaster and made the Tiger Den Leader a Tiger Den Leader/ Pack Trainer position? This person would be working with the new parents in the Tiger Den and could set them off on the right foot. He or She would ensure that the Tiger Den was getting a quality program. I don't know how many new leaders most packs select in a year but unless the Pack Trainer is doing the job that the old Den Leader Coach was doing, the work load of a Pack Trainer isn't that great and once a Tiger Den is up and running he or she could step back a little. I am aware that as things are at present you can't do this and get your charter to go through. It's just an idea that still needs work. Looking at Training in general. I know that I'm biased but one of the things that has made Wood Badge so great is the fact that most of the people who take Wood Badge are the people who want to be there. Where as at times the people who attend the other training's feel that they have to be there and it becomes "Let's get this done and out of the way." This really does put a heavy responsibility on the District Training Team. Very often we as a Council will pick the brightest and the best to staff a Wood Badge Course, and not really think that we need to do the same for the "Early Training's". We really do need as Trainers to be aware that if we don't deliver the goods at the very first training, those attending will leave not wanting to come back. While I'm all for Pow Wow and round table the fact is that at times we are lucky to have one person from a pack attend round table and they are there to get the latest news on District Events and what is going on in the Council. We have in our Council a group of Pow- wowers!! They just love Pow Wows, but during my term as Council Training Chair the most we ever got to attend a Pow Wow was 86, from a Council with over 100 packs. Even with only ten adults in each pack and only half of them attending we ought to have seen a lot more. Sad to say it was "On my watch" that we decided to give Pow Wow a rest. This even though the survey that the participants turned in at the end was full of kind words. In our District we see about 60 new Cub Scout Leaders a year at training and I joke that there is a big black hole somewhere as I never see them again. I visit Day Camp and I see lots of parents who have taken time off work too help out and when I ask what position they hold in their pack the answer is none, and when I ask why? they reply that no one has asked. While I disagree with On Line Training, I do think that there is a place for On Line Round Tables?? Not to replace the real thing, but as another way of trying to improve the quality of the program that our kids receive. No on line program will ever replace the comradeship and fellowship that happens when a bunch of Scouter's get together. Eamonn
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Seems in our neck of the woods that the dining fly is on the way out. The carport or canopy, is the in thing. You can buy them at Sam's Club. They are just like a frame tent with no sides although you can buy sides or use tarps. They cost about $150.00. It is a good idea to color code the poles, as there is a lot of them. Eamonn
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I have just finished watching the ceremony dedicating the WWII Memorial in Washington D.C. The ceremony itself was wonderful.The music moved me and yes I shed a tear when Taps was played. Washington D.C. Never looked better the sun was out and there was just enough wind to give a lift to the flags. The speeches were well written, well delivered and I think given from the hearts that those who delivered them. I missed the war. I didn't arrive on the planet till 1955. I remember hearing people talk about the war. There were of course tales of great bravery and valor, tales of hardship and rationing. There were no gray areas we, the Brits and you the yanks were the good guys and they. They were the enemy, the Hun, the bad guys. Even as a young Lad I heard and knew that we couldn't and wouldn't have made it without you the Americans. But the thing that struck me today wasn't the flags or the music or Tom Hanks. What struck me was the Veterans in the crowd. I watched at one old boy saluted the flag his hand shaking. The poor old Lad who held his walker as the band played the National Anthem. The Mall was filled with thousands of the Veterans. I watched as one little old Lady gave her husband a Kleenex to wipe his eyes. What struck me was that I knew these guys. These were the generation that my father belonged too. When I looked at them I seen my Dad. These were the "No fuss no muss" guys. The men who rolled up their sleeves and got the job done. Dad had worked at RAF bases during the war, he had worked with a great many Americans. He said that he had never met so many people who claimed to be Irish outside of Ireland. When my Dad met my wifes Dad they became friends in an instant. They had long conversations about war time food and American cigarettes. In the days to come I hope to visit the monument. I hope it will be with a group of kids. I know that no matter how I try I will never be able to put into words my feelings for what really was The Greatest Generation. Thanks. Eamonn
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Eaglewings2002 Of course I can't give you a good reason to want to attend training's. I don't know you. I don't know know what your needs are. I don't know the area in which you live. I can't tell you if your local zoo offers a discount for Scouts or what the Cub Scout camping policy is in your council. I can't tell you if your Council Camps allow you to use liquid fuel stoves.I can't tell you if there has been problems with your chartered organization in the past. I can't give you the E-mail address of the person to contact about high adventure programs in your Council. I can't tell you what sort of facilities camp whatever has. I don't know if you need any of this sort of information. Sad as it might this sort of information will never be covered by a On line Training. I'm not sure if that answers the question as to why these can't be offered on line? Most of the Scouter's that attend training's even if they do know a lot about the material that is being presented and even if the presentation isn't that great do find that by being there they can share what they know with others and other Scouter's can share their ideas and experiences with them. While this is no excuse for poor presentations, even this would seem to invalidate "In ALL cases I found that I did not learn anything that I did not already know." Eamonn
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Hi To find information about Commissioner Service and the role of the Unit Commissioner you can visit the Commissioners page on the BSA web site:www.scouting.org I have to admit that I find it a little bit odd that after two years you don't know who or what a commissioner is. Even if you only made it to one Round Table you would have run into at least one Commissioner.Even more odd that he or she or someone didn't make contact when it was time to recharter. Eamonn
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lack of committee support with problem parent
Eamonn replied to altabill's topic in The Patrol Method
I looked at this and my first thought was that you should hide his car keys some where a long way from the camp. (Just joking) Sad to say I think that this chap and I would have to have words. I think that the troop committee need to hear how you really feel. The troop committee need to let Dad know that when his son is with his patrol / Troop he really needs to be with the patrol/ Troop. Anything else is not acceptable. You might want to reinforce this by sending a copy of the planned program home with each Scout and requesting that all Scouts follow the program. This could be followed up with a phone call to Dad asking him if he has read the program and informing him that this is what we will be doing. Come to think of it maybe hiding his car keys isn't such a bad idea!! Eamonn -
Training Tips and Enhancements
Eamonn replied to Bob White's topic in Wood Badge and adult leader training
With so much talk about training I thought this was worth resurrecting. Please feel free to add your Tips and Enhancements. Eamonn -
E-mail has really helped with keeping in touch.I'm still in contact with about 150 of the Lads that were in the troop when I was the Scoutmaster. I have about ten or so friends who were leaders of other troops at that time we E-mail and talk on the phone and have spent time visiting each other. In 2002 I went home and OJ and I got to spend time at summer camp with the Scoutmaster who I have hero worshiped since I was was a venture scout. Sad to say much as I admire and respect my Scoutmaster we had a falling out when I first became a Scoutmaster. He had quit Scouting to get married at 42 years old!! The troop was down and almost out when I came back. We used to meet after the troop meetings in the local pub. I started out hanging on his every word then I started to resent him trying to run the troop from a bar stool till we stopped meeting. He moved and we lost contact. The English Scout Association does have a web site where for a donation you can search for and leave messages to people from your old troop, district whatever. I hope that one day he will check it out. We haven't contacted each other in almost 25 years which make me feel bad. When my Dad died I went home. My brother, the Priest who was/is a family friend and a couple of others along with me nipped into a pub for a quick pint. The bartender was about the size of a barn. I ordered a round of drinks and was ready to pay for them, when the bartender said "That's OK." London is a friendly town but it not known for free beer. I gave this generous Bartender a puzzled look. He smiled and said "You don't know who I am?" He was right I had no idea. He went on to say that he was one of my Cub scouts when I was an Assistant Cubmaster. 20 years had passed and he not only remembered me, he paid for the beer. Who says we don't paid!! Eamonn
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Sorry Hops Dear Friend, I support all of our guys in the military. I am not sure if George W. is the worst president. I am sure that he isn't the best. Eamonn
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Hi The District Chairman in our District isn't such a nice guy, he would have kept it for the Council and used it toward the Project Sales goal. You can't trust them Limeys!! Being as you didn't go and ask for the donation I don't think that anyone will get upset along with the fact that the District Chair. is the one who got you involved in the first place. The Eagle in KY is right about it being a good idea to have the donation made to your CO. In fact they will be the owners of the boat anyway!! It does make life easier for the donor to deal with the IRS. From the tone of your posting it seems that you are not a great boat lover, but could it be used to improve your program? Other then making sure that there are hidden conditions I would suggest that you move fast before someone else does or the guy changes his mind or his wife grabs it. Or you get some darn Limey as a District Chair. Eamonn
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Troop Policy: >50% Attendance Req'd. for Advancement?
Eamonn replied to dluders's topic in Advancement Resources
What Physical measurement do we have to measure Scout Spirit? None!! We rely on our knowledge of the Scout as an individual. We of course in most cases can't be with the Scout 24/7. However if we go back to the methods of Scouting we find Adult Association, we can only view the Scout as we see him. The bottom line is how does he view his Scout Spirit? How does he think he is doing dealing with the Ideals of Scouting. Our role as leaders is to get him to challenge himself to do his best. We can look at Personal Growth, again how does he think he is doing. As he becomes older he has more freedom and is allowed to make more and bigger decisions and take on more responsibility how is he managing this and what goals has he set for himself. We do hold the Scout accountable for keeping his word. Making a real effort to reach his goals and his behavior. This really makes the Scoutmaster conference a very important part of the advancement process. Eagle5 Have to admit to having a hard time understanding your posting -It has been a long week. As I see it you are asking what to do when the Scoutmaster and the troop committee don't see eye to eye on advancement? (The ASM's don't count they are there to assist SM) The Troop Committee can not should not change the policies of the BSA. If I were the Scoutmaster I would explain my dilemma to the Unit Commissioner and see if he could persuade the Committee to see the light. If that didn't work the District Advancement Chair. Should get involved.From what you have posted it sounds as if the relationship that you have with your Troop Committee needs more then a little help. It should be our troop not them and us. As for giving dluders a target. His aim has to be to deliver the program. Many of the postings here have said what is good for the troop. The focus ought to be on the Scout. Some have tried to compare Scouting to sports "Don't show up for practice and you don't play." Sports teams don't share the same mission as the Boy Scouts Of America. We the adults are here to serve the Scouts in our units we have promised to deliver the program of the BSA. Working with the PLC we ought to do everything possible to ensure that no one wants to be inactive, that the activities we do are fun and we are offering adventure to the Lads in our charge. Having a rule that could be 50% might be 49% or could be cast aside is not the way to get anything done. Challenging our Scouts to live up to the Scout Oath and Law and set goals for themselves is a lot more work for the troop leadership. Hopefully the end result is Scouts who can make good choices as opposed to Scouts who blindly follow rules. Eamonn -
Rooster, Please believe me when I say that I admire you for your deep faith in the teachings of your religion. I don't agree that atheists don't know the difference between right and wrong. My reason for asking the atheists that post here if they doing anything to bring about change in the military and the White House office of Faith-based initiatives was to find out if they were just out to bring down the BSA or if they really want to bring about change in all the areas that the U.S government spends taxpayer money on faith based programs. While it might be wrong of me to say but Deloe seemed a little unsure about the Faith Based initiatives and he never mentioned the Chaplain Service in the military. Merlyn seems to have got side tracked and didn't address either. This should lead me to some sort of a conclusion? Could it be that Merlyn is really only posting here in order to rattle and rile up the Scouter's here in the forum? Both the programs I mentioned are faith based, both are funded by the government, both receive a lot more funds then the BSA. The Military has a forum where as tax payers the atheists could post their displeasure about the millions of taxpayers dollars are spent funding religious doctrine. I'm sorry guys, all the name calling and misinformation that you choose to post here is lost on me. I know that you aren't going to lose any sleep over it. But if you thought that you might gain any support from me by posting in this form, it just isn't going to happen. Eamonn
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Wow I must be a real dummy!! I have been around training for about the ten years. In Scouting for about 40 (Yes I'm the gray haired trainer.) I have been involved in/taken/or presented most of the BSA training's. And every single time I learn something. Someone asks a different question or the presenter has a different slant on the presentation. I never knew that there was such a thing as a Training Commissioner (There isn't!!!) I'm sorry Eaglewings if you go with a closed mind you sure as heck won't get anything out of the training. I'm all for people attending Round Table, however being that many Den Leaders have young children at home and what with Den Meetings, Pack Meetings, Leaders meetings and the time spent planning the meetings do we really want to force them into something else? I'm sorry scoutldr, there is no way that you can present the Cub Scout Specific training by your lonesome it was never ever intended to be presented that way. By trying to present it by yourself you are not serving the needs of the participants. Thunper - I have seen what you call your Trademark of listing the participants questions on large sheets of paper. I have never used it as a method.My experience was at PTC where I was attending the conference on Commissioner Service, by the end of the week in fact on the very last day it seemed that there was still unanswered questions and it seemed like there was a mad rush to cover them in the time allowed for the training I wonder if this might be a problem? Eamonn
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I think if there is a soft spot in the "New Training" It is with the Cub Scout training. It is kind of hard for some of us old timers to appreciate what is going on or where the BSA is going with the Cub Scout Training. I have to admit to having not viewed a Cub Scout Fast Start tape in a long time. So long (2 years) that I don't know if it has or has not been changed. I always thought that it was OK, but did need to be viewed with someone that had some knowledge of Cub Scouting and the pack that the new leader was joining. This of course should be done by the Pack Trainer. However very few of the Packs in the District have anyone filling that position. I really do like the New Leader Essentials. The material is very good. I do have a problem with the 90 minutes that is supposed to be the time frame. In fact we seem to be running 15 -20 minutes over. Not that anyone has ever complained and my feeling is that if there is learning taking place why stop. Of course we need to be aware of the time and 20 minutes over is way too much. We do at times have a problem with there being too many Cub Scouter's and very few Crew Leaders (At times none!!) This makes the session near the end very difficult.(The session where the participants report on the hike.)But over all it is a good and worth while course. The soft spot is with the Cub Scout Leader Specific Training.While the idea that the Cub Scouter will return and take the specific training for his or her position (Tiger Den Leader,Cub Scout Den Leader,Webelos Scout Den Leader, Cubmasters and Committee members.) Is a good one. The fact is that very few come back. The training is shorter then the old Basic Training, which would be fine if the participants were returning. It does hit on all the high points that each position needs to know to deliver the program. As with all BSA training's the course is presented by volunteers and the quality of the presentation can vary. One way that the BSA can ensure that the important material is covered is to put it in a video. The good presenter will know how to lead a discussion after the video to push the message home. In fairness to the course, we have to be realistic. We are never going to train anyone to be a great Den Leader or whatever other position in one day or two or three evenings. We can show them where they will find the resources that they need: Round Table, Program Helps, other training's. To improve the Training experience we need to really develop our District Training Team. We might want to do everything possible to get all those that present training to attend the Trainer Development Conference.This would /could/should include Round Table Staff. If there is a need for some sort of supplementary training it should be offered but not as part of the established training's. Pow Wow or Akela calls is a good place. It would be nearly impossible for a Unit Commissioner to visit Den Meetings, so the need for a Pack Trainer is a real one. I'm not sure how we get that message across to the packs. I was very fortunate that during my term as as a Cubmaster the pack had an outstanding Den Leader Coach, who was also on the Round Table staff. While pizazz is an important part of the pack meetings. The "Real Work" is done at the weekly Den meetings. We have to focus on helping these people and the best way to deliver this is at the pack level. While training Den Leaders is not in the Cubmasters job description if there is no Pack Trainer, he or she might want to take this on. It is good that you have other Cubmasters visiting your meetings to get ideas. I do hope that you are not voicing your opinions about training to them? Eamonn
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Thanks, Alpha Phi Omega for NOT discriminating!
Eamonn replied to larryfiehn's topic in Issues & Politics
Zahanda, OK,so no one is born straight or gay. Some people choose to be gay or choose that lifestyle.Some people that are gay / homosexual aren't happy being that way while others struggle against something internal. How did I do? I as a heterosexual male choose my partner, we got married and have remained faithful to each other. I know both males and females who have met someone got married and have not managed to remain faithful. As a society we view these people as being in the wrong. Did these people make a choice? Or are they struggling with some internal turmoil? Maybe I'm a victim of a Irish Catholic upbringing and maybe I'm too old to change. But in my book this comes down to morals. I don't think that I anti-gay or anti- homosexual. I have met, worked with and know people who live the gay lifestyle and as in every walk of life some of these people are really nice and some aren't. If my son came home and said "Dad I'm gay." Would I love him any less? Of course not. I would think that he had made a bad choice. I have seen a list of historic people who were supposed to be homosexual. The list has many great soldiers,scholars and statesmen many of those on the list are people that I admire. However when it comes to this part of their lives I think they were wrong. Eamonn -
Thanks, Alpha Phi Omega for NOT discriminating!
Eamonn replied to larryfiehn's topic in Issues & Politics
Deloe, I thought when you posted" There are also 11 year old homosexuals, neither is a choice." That you were implying that people are born homosexual. Now I'm really confused. If someone isn't born that way and it isn't a choice. What is it? Of course I'm at a disadvantage not being gay. But does a person wake up one day and decide that he or she is attracted to members of the same sex? Maybe I'm having a bad night but why would I looking for the word corroborate? While in the eyes of some a homosexual would have a hard time living by the Scout Oath. The BSA policy as I read it says that: Boy Scouts of America believes that a known or avowed homosexual is not an appropriate role model of the Scout Oath and Law for adolescent boys. So my answer to your question about the celibate homosexual is that if he or she didn't make it known, he or she could be a member. Maybe welcomed is taking it a bit far.But as far as I know no one will ever ask. Eamonn -
Woodsmith I wish you all the luck in the world. Mark, I had you down as a Rock or a Stoneys Man, maybe even an Iron City. The Lion has a pineapple soda that sounds like fun. Eamonn
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Troop Policy: >50% Attendance Req'd. for Advancement?
Eamonn replied to dluders's topic in Advancement Resources
So Herms the take home message I get from what you say is: It is OK not to play the game by the rules. What the heck we will just make up our own set of rules. We should rewrite the Scout Oath to include a line about not only keeping the Scout Law but also some rule that isn't part of the BSA. I don't think so. Eamonn -
Fallen Eagle Scout Mother
Eamonn replied to htc1992eaglescout47553's topic in Open Discussion - Program
You have them. Eamonn -
Thanks, Alpha Phi Omega for NOT discriminating!
Eamonn replied to larryfiehn's topic in Issues & Politics
Deloe Please correct me if I'm wrong. From your posting I think that you are saying that some people are born homosexual. I have heard this said but have never seen any medical evidence that collaborates this.If you know where I could find out more I would appreciate it. Even if as you say people are born homosexual, I think that living a gay lifestyle is a choice.I might be wrong but as far as I know the BSA has said that it doesn't allow avowed homosexuals to be members. So this being the case wouldn't you agree that there is a choice? I have been is Scouting for a long time and no one has ever asked me if I'm gay or not. As it happens I'm not gay but I don't make a point of telling the world that I'm heterosexual(Until now).Again I hope that you would agree that there is a choice. As far as I know no one is asking homosexuals to declare their sexuality. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)